I recently purchased a bosch 4412 and my initial impression was that this was a very well thought out saw. I’ve since run into some issues which have been very disappointing. I would like to mention that I am a cabinet maker and finish carpenter by trade and have been using my saw all day everyday for a week and a half now.
Issue #1: the dust collection design is non-effective. The dust shute does nothing to channel dust away. Not only this but most of the dust ends up on the sliding rails, and subsequently is starting to work itself into the rail housing and bearings. I have seen a significant decline in the smoothness of the sliding action.
Issue #2: there is significant runout apparent on every 5 to 6 cuts (as much as 1/32). Issue #3: I’ve had to realign my fence twice (not counting the initial alignment) in the last week and a half.
Has anyone who has used and /or owns this saw run into similar issues? These issues have been very surprising since most publications have called this the best SCMS on the market right now.
Comments?
Replies
Does anyone with other brand sliders have similiar problems?
I've been running a Bosch 3915, 10" compound slider, for 5 years. Sometimes all day everyday. Dust collection on any slider is difficult. I place a vacuum hose in place of the bag and tie a 4" dust collector hose to the saw. The dust collector hose has to be repositioned as the saw is angled or beveled. I added an aluminum extension to the blade guard to help direct the dust. Dewalt uses a piece of rubber like fabric on their saws.
This is the fourth slider I've owned. One Hitachi 8 1/2", two Hitachi 10", now the Bosch. With all saws, I have found that the negative hook blades do a much better and longer lasting job than fine cutters and thin kerfs. I've been using Freud TFLU 9110 10" x 60t. They are inexpensive and outperform all others I've tried.
I hate the blade guard on the Bosch. That rinky dink actuating arm rubbing on a small bearing is junk. I can't say the Bosch is particularly accurate. They are overrated in my experience but all of the miter saws have little quirks and inaccuracies that you have to live with. In the shop, I use my miter sled for accurate miters. The run out and wobble of sliders doesn't show with ordinary casing work but when miters are restricted or in operations like picture framing, the inaccuracy becomes an issue.
There are two nuts on either side of the slide lock. You may have to loosen them slightly to free up the slide action. I've been using a bicycle chain lubricant, Krytech teflon wax, on my slides as well as other tools. The liquid dries and there is no oily residue or black film. You should not have to realign the fence unless it gets hit hard. Maybe one of the bolts is bottoming out or otherwise being restricted from tightening down. Something else could be loose also. I'd check out everything, over and under just in case.
I've often been dissappointed when letting reviews weigh in on my purchase decisions. Often reviews are written by those who don't push the limits of the equipment or have the same demands as professionals. They have little value until the equipment has been put to a real world test over extended time. Things are even tougher since models are changing every year or sooner. A quality tool should last a lifetime. Funny I've owned so many miter saws but only one table saw, band saw, etc. As my work has become more demanding, the miter saws have been relegated to rough cutting and on site work only. They just aren't consistent enough for cabinet and furniture work. They sure beat the heck out of those old 9" Rockwells though
I have a Dewalt SCMS. As far as dust collection, I've never seen one that worked well. Mine puts a cloud of sawdust. I also work with Hitachi, Makita and Bosch SCMS's. None of the factory dust ports gather sawdust well.
Are you blowing your saw off with compressed air? I used to do that on my Hitachi and ended up blowing sawdust into the sealed bearings. Destroyed it in a matter of months. The second Hitachi lasted for years. I only use a shop vac to clean them. There should be wipers on the front and back of the rails. Are those missing?
Could you clarify your problem with runout? I'm not sure what you mean.
I've never had a fence problem. If you need to realign your fence. There might be a stripped screw or a screw that is bottoming out before it tightens down all the way.
Hope this helps.
I appreciate your input. I will try your recommendations regarding screws and blades and will give my saw a complete inspection and adjustment. The dust problem may be something I will have to live with. I agree with your take on the fact that real world testing and "controlled lab" testing may yield different results.
This is my third miter saw but my first slider. I have a DW706 and although the dc is not very effective, it is not an issue ( or not perceived to be at least).
Thanks again.
Like you, I do mostly trim and cabinetry with my slider -- the Makita 1013. I have had it for 5-6 years, and have adjusted it just twice -- once about 3 years ago, but again just the other day after taking it out on a framing job. I do a lot of reading at Breaktime, and over there, the Bosch seems to be the saw of choice. It seems to be regarded as brawny machine with lots of features that construction folks appreciate. I took the Makita on a framing job to cut the compound angles on a bunch of 2X6 hip rafters. Worked fine, but got it back in the shop, and realized everything was slightly out of whack -- the fence, blade alignment, etc. Had to readjust everything to bring it back to the tolerances required for cabinet work. So here's what I think I learned: these sliders are very delicate machines (as far as the adjustments are concerned). Moving them around (from truck to site) and cutting large, heavy boards are inevitably going to affect the adjustments. My Makita works just fine if it stays in the shop, and I am very careful not to knock it around when cutting heavy stock.Over the years, I have formed the perception that the Makita sliders are the best for cabinetmakers, the Bosch is probably best for framers, but a non slider (CMS) is likely the best way to go for true precision cuts -- such as crown molding. As for dust collection, all of them are pretty miserable -- it's the nature of the beast, I think.
I think your right about handling, work conditions that the impact on alignment. I mentioned in another post that this is my first slider. I have a DW706 which until a couple of weeks ago was my main saw. So I am not used to transporting a big slider around from site to site. I will have to learn to take specific care for this piece of equipment. Thanks for your comments.
I am starting to realize that the DC issue is a general issue that isn't better with other makes and models. I will have to cope with this issue.
In regards to blowing off the saw, I do at the end of ever workday. I will take your advice to heart and stop blowing off the rails. The wipers are there, I think i'm just blowing dust into the housing and subsequently the bearings. I will start wiping this area and vac-ing from now on. I do however blow all of my other tools off everyday. In fact, dewalt recommends (in their manuals) blowing off cordless motors at least once a week. So i've made it a daily practice to blow things of before putting them away.
As far as run off, I mean the blade wobbles during the cut and you don't get a flat cut from top to bottom. This doesn't happen on every cut. I ran into this problem several years ago when dewalt introduced their 705 saw. It ended up being a defect in the bearings and I took it back to home depot and they replaced it with another, problem corrected. I heard from several industrial tool outlets that Bosch ran into a huge problem with their 12" sliders and had recalled them. Apparently Bosch has had issues producing enough saws for the demand since this problem. I bought my saw a couple of weeks ago and felt that this problem had long been fixed and current supplies did not have this problem. I may be wrong and should look into the production date of my saw.
"Issue #2: there is significant runout apparent on every 5 to 6 cuts (as much as 1/32). "
Got it. Something is heating up and expanding. If you let the saw cool down does the blade wobble go away? It very well could be a bearing problem. If it is, I would pack that saw up and return it.
Sorry, I hate buying a tool and finding I have to fix it to make it work.
Hi, I'm Len and I'm a Toolaholic...
"Sorry, I hate buying a tool and finding I have to fix it to make it work."
I hear ya Len. http://www.superwoodworks.com
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