Replies

1. 
   MikeIke | Apr 19, 2010 09:01am | #1

   I have owned the 2500 for a couple years now. I believe you would find it a pleasure to use.

1. 
   duke | Apr 25, 2010 09:09am | #16

   Workbench Question

   Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post.  Glad to hear that if lives up to its ratings.

2. 
   AZMO | Apr 20, 2010 12:38am | #2

   Maybe Mel will chime in, I seem to recall he has two of them?

3. 
   RalphBarker | Apr 20, 2010 10:09am | #3

   no personal experience, but . . .

   I don't own one, but the Sjoberg benches have maintained a solid reputation for quality over the decades.

4. 
   9619 | Apr 20, 2010 07:35pm | #4

   Duke,

   I have had a Sjobergs Elite 2500 for about a year.  I love it.   I talked to the guy who wrote the article for FWW and he actually bought the Sjobergs after doing the review.   Can't beat that for putting your money where your mouth is.

    

   The two vices are great.  They hardly rack at all.  I haven't seen better vices.  

   I made a rack of nine drawers which fit in the opening between the four rails.  They solve a part of my storage problem.  

   I use the bench daily.  I am retired, and woodworking is my passion.  I am deep in to hand tools and this bench is a great place to use handtools.  I recommend Chris Schwartz's workbench book, not to help you design or choose a workbench but because he has the best info on how to use a workbench that you will find anywhere.  This book is worth its weight in gold. 

   If you have any specific questions, let me know.

   Enjoy.  Just buy the bench and use it.

   Mel

1. 
   duke | Apr 25, 2010 09:24am | #17

   Workbench Comments

   Mel,

   Thanks for your input on the Sjorbergs bench.  Your comments and review are exactly what I was hoping for when I made the post.   I am in the process of incorporating more handtool use into my woodworking and am finding that my current bench is too small and lightweight for the demands of planing and shaping.  This looks like it will fill the bill nicely.

   A few follow-up questions: How wide a board can be clamped in the upright postition, like you would position a board for cutting dovetails, between the square vise runners?  Does the bench come with four dogs?  Finally, did you get the holdfast and, if so, would you recommend it?

   Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my post it is most appreciated.

1. 
   9619 | Apr 25, 2010 09:49am | #18

   Duke,

   Glad I was able to help.   Now let me try your questions.

   "A few follow-up questions: How wide a board can be clamped in the upright postition, like you would position a board for cutting dovetails, between the square vise runners?"

   Wow.  I don't know because I don't do it that way.   Between the square vice runners is the long screw,  so there is only a few inches.  I don't put the wood in there unless the pieces are very small, like for a small box.    Generally, i put it to one side of one of the square vice runners.    Since the vice doesn't rack much,  that works fine for medium sized pieces.     If i want to do a really wide board, like dovetailing a case piece,  I use a Bessey clamp on one side of the board, after clamping the other side in the vice.    Of course, if your board is more than about 40" long (which rarely happens to me in dovetailing,  then you need to get creative.

   The bench does come with four dogs, but not with the hold downs (Holdfasts).   I bought two hold downs also.   Sure, if you are going to pay for the bench, it surely makes sense to get the holddowns too since they allow you to make more use of the bench.

   The holes in the bench are a non standard      1" diameter, which means that you can't use the aftermarket stuff from lee Valley, etc.    Oh well.   I like the bench anyway.

   Let me know if I can answer other questions after you get tthe bench.  Stay in touch.

   Mel

5. 
   AZMO | Apr 20, 2010 08:19pm | #5

   Orders are Orders

   I am glad to know I have such influence that far across the country. OK, here it comes, I am ordering you to send me 500 pd feet of select wood from Danny at Dunlap.  Darn, knew that wasn't going to work....

   I am reading a book, Made by Hand by Tom Fidgen, he has two "European" benches. The first came with an issue, and they replaced it for free. They never bothered to pick up the damaged one, and he has worked it over to be servicable. The book is wonderful, and Tom is fun to read. OK maybe I should post that for conversation!

   Morgan

1. 
   9619 | Apr 20, 2010 10:04pm | #6

   Morgan,

   I just got off the phone with Danny.  He is sending you the wood.  By the way, when I went to the Woodworking show at Dulles Expo earlier this month, the only money I spent was at the Dunlap booth.  I did score some nice wood.

   Now for the bad news.  I bought the Fidgen book.  I loved the concept and the title.  That is what caused me to buy it.  Then I read the first few chapters and started to make the first project.  Then I returned the book for a full refund.  To say that Fridgen is "non traditional" is putting it mildly.   I found his writeup on how to make the first project to be difficult to follow.  You may find him easier to follow because you are a lot smarter (and younger) than I am.

   I put a question on his website.   I checked a number of times to see if he answered it.  Finally I stopped checking. 

   I bought three other books:

   - Cabinet Making for Beginners  by Charles Hayward     (Larry Williams recommends getting a copy of one of the editions from before 1955.  He got the 1947 original version.  I got the second printing - 1949).   THIS IS NOT A BOOK FOR BEGINNERS.   It merely says it is.

   Hand Tools: their Ways and Workings,  by Aldren A. Watson

   Handplane Essentials by Chris Schwartz

   I have since read all three of these books from cover to cover.  I would rate all three as 'must haves' for folks interested in woodworking with hand tools.   The first two are well known "classics".   The third will be (IMHO). 

   I have found one issue with the Schwartz book.  He finds it impossible to say anything negative about any plane that was given or loaned to him for review.   Obviously he knows how to survive in the business of publishing about hand tools .  NEVER BITE THE HANDS THAT FEED YOU.    Ha ha ha ha ha.     So he can be forgiven for wanting to continue in his chosen profession.   Regardless of this issue,  he hits a lot of nails on the head, and I like his enthusiasm for actually doing woodworking.  I guess a second issue with the book is that he is not really a woodworker, in the sense of doing it for money, but then again, neither am I.    So the two negatives on this book don't add up to much.   The practical info it provides is massive.  I look at his conclusions as hypotheses for me to test for myself.   So far, I think he is a pretty good thinker.  I also have his Workbench book, and find it to be the best of the "big three" books on workbenches.  The reason is that he doesn't just list and describe a lot of benches, he actually provides a lot of info about what you want a bench to do, and about how to actually use a bench.   

   The Watson book and the Hayward books are just plain GREAT - well written, and written from the heart.   Old style. 

   Anyone who knows Dunlap, knows quality.  You'll like these three books.

   Have fun.

   Mel

   PS there are so few really threads in which people show disagreement that this thread, with you and I arguing about hand tool books, could be the only real argument going on around here.    Later, do you want to argue about the best way to sharpen, or to fix problems with dovetails, or to tune a tenon?

   -

1. 
   gdblake | Apr 20, 2010 11:35pm | #7

   Mel: The Schwartz has sold pieces he's built

   Mel:

   I'm pretty sure Chris Schwartz has omitted to selling pieces he's made in the past to fund his tool buying habits.  Personally, I view Chris as a professional woodworker, he just makes mor money writing about the pieces and methods of work than on the pieces themselves. 

   gdblake

1. 
   9619 | Apr 21, 2010 08:17am | #11

   Chris,

   Well, I learned something new.  Chris has sold some stuff to pay for his tool habit.    But he makes his living as a writer.  As you said, writing can pay more than woodworking.  Also writers can become celebrities, widely adored by the woodworkers of the world.  I get the inkiling that Chris enjoys this aspect of his life.

   Glen Huey REALLY was a professional woodworker - of a very high calibre.   Now he is a writer over at that other magazine with Chris.   I really felt bad that he made the jump.  It says a lot about the state of fine woodworking.  It is becoming more of passtime for rich old guys than a way of making a living. 

   The nice thing about getting advice from a REAL professional woodworker is that they face the real world of having to make pieces and get them out of the shop and to the customer.  They don't get overly enchanted with tools, or with talking about tools. That's why the folks on Knots who have the greatest influence on me are folks like Ray, Richard, Rob and Dusty.   It's not that I don't learn from the tool fanatics, it's just that my outlook, attitude and priorities more resemble those of the professionals than the tool afficianados.   While I enjoy a well made and beautiful tool, just as I enjoy a beautiful well made automobile or a beautiful well made woman, I don't collect tools, automobiles or women.   I have only the tools I need to do the woodwork that I do, and I only have one car and one woman.  I do have a number of saws.  :-)

   I think the best advice on tools not only comes only from professional woodworkers, but especially from ones who do not get close to tool making companies.  My favorite tool reviewer is David Savage.  His tools writeup is at:

   http://www.finefurnituremaker.com/woodworking_tools.htm

   Thanks,

   Mel

2. 
   AZMO | Apr 21, 2010 12:34am | #8

   Can one have toooo many books.

   Mel,

   I am truly sorry that Tom's book did not reach you. I guess what draws me to his book and his work, starts with his illustrations. I swear I am looking at my own notes and sketches.  I draw as part of my work, and I know if I can draw it, I can built it, so therefore it works. I look at his cuts and joints and they have knicks and rough spots, chips etc. Looks alot like my efforts.

   I also enjoy the design of his pieces. Interesting to the eye, excellent wood selection, and they look functional. I really don't like woodworking/furniture that looks like an art project gone wrong. I just don't get it the why of spending so much time and effort that you end up with a whimsical art peice that may not last long as a style or in construction.  His work looks like something that our great great grandkids will enjoy as well.

   Thirdly his shop looks simple, humble and I could walk in and go to work. I suspect yours would be similar. I wish mine was more like this as well.

   4th and final thought. His projects don't spell it out, you do have to think and apply yourself to the design. I don't want a Shop Notes class project, but some understanding of the direction, seleciton of joinery, techniques of his construction, and thoughts about mistakes and issues they cause. This allows me to design a piece using a part of his ideas and selections to build what I want. Solid to me... HOWEVER

   I do not own the books you have listed above, and I have loved Tage and his books for 25 years. They have been my go to source of information and I love his simple approach to the work as well.  So I have some shopping to do and some books to find. Then perhaps I can reasses and comment (argue) further! I will agree with you, Chris Swartz Bench book is the best of the bunch. I have read it a number of times, and I know I will be building something soon!

   Morgan

   PS Thanks for getting some Dunlap wood out to me, I will sit patiently by the door, looking for the Conway 40 ft tractor trailer to pull up and off load. ;>)

   PPS Tom just replied to my post on his site earlier today. Just exactly what did you say to him anyway?

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Apr 21, 2010 12:52am | #9

   Books

   M&M

   I've heard about Fidgen's book, and we actually carry it at LV, but I haven't had a chance to even look at it.  All my time in the showroom is spent using hand tools on the showroom benches to make new product displays!  I've heard a lot of good things about it, and some criticism.  I guess I will have to have a read of it.

   I just finished Frid's book #2 (Veneering, shaping, finishing).  I love his style of writing.  He says:  It's simple - use this or that, go like this, but don't do that.  Frid has a way of making even the most complicated things seem easy.  I guess that's the mark of a master.

   Watson's book is on my Amazon wishlist, as well as a number of other books.  I've been reading a lot more recently and finished reading FW #212 in one night.  Okay, I glossed over the furniture projects, reading a little of the text and looking at the pictures and captions.

   Schwarz's Workbench Book is one of the best books I've read, but Handplane Essentials never really got my attention.  Perhaps it's because of the format - largely a compilation of magazine articles.  I do like the black and white photography though.

   One of the most fascinating books I own is simply called "Wood".  It's written by Harvey Green.  I'm still reading it, and it is a really enjoyable read.  You might not believe me when I tell you that he talks about seemingly every single thing wood has ever been used for, from crates to clubs to toothpicks and matches - not just their uses, but how they were developed and why the woods used were chosen.  In a word, AMAZING.  This book gets my highest recommendation.  The only other book that I've enjoyed as much was Sam Maloof, Woodworker.

2. 
   9619 | Apr 21, 2010 08:30am | #12

   Morgan,

   "I look at his cuts

   Morgan,

   "I look at his cuts and joints and they have knicks and rough spots, chips etc. Looks alot like my efforts."

   If this is the case, you will really like the stuff I make.

   You are right. My shop is humble, and small.   But that keeps me from buying things that I don't need.  It is now true that If I buy another tool, I have to get rid of one that I have.    I did buy five small tools in the last month.  That would be a record for me.

   - an old Millers Falls breast drill

   - an old Stanley egg beater drill

   - a Somex saw set for saws with high TPIs

   - a Stanley saw for saws with low TPIs

   - a drill bit for my Stanley and Millers Falls which has a variable sized cutter.   Very cool.  I already had a set of Irwin bits for the drills.

   Fortunately all of these tools fit in a small space.  Up to now I have been making holes with a power drill.   I gotta cut that out.  Also I gotta learn how to sharpen saws. 

   About Fidgen - when I saw him attempt to clean out a dado by drilling shallow holes, I wondered about him.  The traditional way is much easier.  Just knife the lines. and either chisel them or cut with a saw to correct depth and remove the waste with a chisel and or a router plane. 

   I agree with you.  Tage Frid is the MAN!

   Keep waiting for that wood.

   Have fun.

   Mel

6. 
   bduffin104 | Apr 21, 2010 03:01am | #10

   I'm too cheap

   I'm sure most would consider it a personality defect, but I am just too cheap to buy a bench when I have the ability to build one myself out of recycled wood. Although now that think about it, then bench I did build has some defects. I'm not an expert bench builder, yet.

   This latest version is made from old glue lam beam cut offs and I spent only twelve hours on it. It's plenty stout but not heavy enough.

   I use my out feed table as a work bench a lot. It has two heavy table saws and some storage cabinets all bolted together and must weigh about 1500 pounds. When I clamp something to this table and work on it, it doesn't move.

   Bret

   
1. 
   AZMO | Apr 21, 2010 08:55am | #13

   Bret when you say it stout but not heavy enough, I wonder if you mean it slides on the floor? I don't see foot pads, but  a sled effect on the bottom. I find rubber bottoms (gasp) keep my bench stuck to the floor. Polished concrete really does slide around.

   Morgan

   Nice detail dovetail chisel ya got there.....

1. 
   bduffin104 | Apr 21, 2010 09:30am | #14

   Yes, It's ridgid but I'm able to push it around when working something on it.

   Non skid pads is a good idea.

   Bret

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 21, 2010 10:05am | #15

   Put a piece of that stuff you buy at the grocery that looks like non skid rubber router pad and lines drawers as it is the same thing but cheaper. Put a piece under each leg and see what happens. That's what I use and 4 teen-ageers can't slide my bench once it's there. My bench is fairly heavy but would slide before I did that.

   Now of course Morgan an I are not one of those guys who wrote a book on benches so heaven forbid... you might drop an e-mail to one of them first to confirm if non-skid rubber pads under the feet are really a good idea!. ha..ha... ha..ha..ha..

   Good luck...

7. 
   duke | May 21, 2010 05:58am | #19

   Followup Questions: Sjorberg Elite Workbench

   Mel,

   I finally purchased the Sjorberg's Elite 2000 6' workbench which recently arrived.  It really is quite massive and well built.  I am excited to put it through its paces.  Before I finalize its home in my shop I wanted to check with you about finishing the bottom, inside dog holes and vice faces.  It indicates that you should do that with a wipe on oil finish.  There is a small bottle of their finish included.  Is this enough for these surfaces?  If not, what type of finish did you use for yours?  You also mentioned that you built a bank of drawers for storage underneath the bench.  Do you have any pictures of your drawers and/or any thoughts/recommendations about design considerations for them after using your bench?  I would like to build some for my bench to maximize the storage space underneath the top.  Thanks again for your helpful comments.