Folks
Does anyone here use a bow saw to cut tenons? The question pertains to Moxon’s reference to a tennant saw and his image of a bow saw. I know that Tage Frid preferred a bow saw for tenon work and that it was a common practice in some European countries. I’m curious if anyone here follows suit.
Gary
Replies
I bought a bow saw back in the '70s after seeing Frid's articles and such. The tensioned blade is nice, but I never could get used to the bulk and the balance. I prefer the Japanese pull-stroke approach for hand-cut work.
RalphI did the same thing after reading his book. I picked up an Ulmia saw at Woodcraft. Never really could get used to it though and finally sold it. I have a sense this was a central European style of sawing and not a British or US style. Or Canadian.GaryGary Roberts
Dedham, MA USA
http://www.toolemera.com
http://toolemerablog.typepad.com/
I built a copy of the one shown in Moxon. It now hangs in Pennsbury Manor's Joinery. The frame was made of maple and carefully sculpted to reduce weight. The 18" blade is fixed in the frame. Wrought rose headed nails hold it in place. It is much lighter than a back saw of comparable length, which isn't necessarily a good thing. The frame was made carefully to allow great amounts of tension to be applied to the blade. I used frame saw almost exclusively for several years. I also gave Japanese saws the ole college try before abandoning them all for English style saws (which I think are simply superior designs to all others).A friend purchased an Ulmia saw. I was unimpressed. The frame was loose in all the wrong places and tight where it shouldn't have been. The blades those saws came with all seemed to be unfortunately toothed. I cleaned up the teeth as a matter of course for the new blade I bought.I still have and regularly use a sweet 12" turning saw. Its the saw I use to make saw handles! After many years of good service, I finally snapped the 1/4" wide blade. Fortunately I had scrap steel lying around and had a new blade fabbed up in about an hour. I think I would only make my own blades for frame saws now. Oh, I also have a 4' Roubo copy, but I'm finding it difficult to control.Adam
AdamThanks for the response. Given the frequency with which the 'experts' borrowed from each other while assembling their various treatises on the working of wood, it gets to be a headache to try and trace an original statement to it's source. In present day engineering libraries, we can at least use a variety of databases to find the primary source and to pin down the latter misquotes. Alas, those databases don't go back to the 17th and 18th Centuries.That Ulmia I briefly owned was as unbalanced as they get. I did try a Japanese style saw once but could not get used to it. My muscle memory simply refused to comply.In reviewing a couple of Dutch catalogs, I see saw frames but no back saws. I wonder if the workers kept a frame or two and simply switched blades according to the need? Sort of like keeping a set of plane blades on hand for the all purpose jack plane?GaryGary Roberts
Dedham, MA USA
http://www.toolemera.com
http://toolemerablog.typepad.com/
Adam,
I've got a couple broken bandsaw blades laying around the shop. I've also wanted to build a frame saw for many years. How do you secure the blade to the frame? Do you have any hints on the construction or suggested size for general work? 10-12" sounds about right.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
For a tenon saw you want 16-18". But you can try other lengths and see what you get. I was never thrilled about using band saw blades. The tooth geometries just never seemed to be what I wanted. But you can grind off the teeth and file whatever you want.You don't need any rotating for joinery saws. Just pin the blade in place. I've used nails, machine screws, you name it. The trick it making a good frame saw is allowing the arms to rotate on the stretcher so you can tension the blade with the string. But you don't want any movement along the long axis (length) of the arms. It may be better to have a tight joint on the near side arm and a loose joint on the far side.My advice is to make one, but invest no time making it pretty. Just put it together and try it. If you don't like it, make another one.Adam
I've got a couple broken bandsaw blades laying around the shop.
Hi Chris,
Depending on the style of band saw blade, they can make for good framed resaw saws, but even at that, the tooth geometry is usully much too agressive for all but softer woods.
The ones we've made for frame saw resawing still tend to be between 6 and 8 ppi with about 6 degrees of rake, pretty much like a western-style rip-filed hand saw. But the blades are tensioned, which means the blade is made much thinner and so cuts very quickly. Wide arms, blade mounted in the center, two outer frame members.
Framed joinery saws like Adam says are shorter and of the more traditional shape one sees for bow-style frame saws. Blades toothed typical for backed saws used for the same work.
Take care, Mike
They are the only type I use, including cutting dovetails. I make my own and have several for different tasks. You can have a lot of saws for next to no cost. They do take a bit of room to store though.
Hi Gary,
I have used Adam's bow saw at Pennsbury to cut tenons on many occasions. It is a delightful saw that cuts quickly due to its thin blade and excellent sharpening. I can do accurate work with it but find the grip I need to use awkward. I prefer to use a British style backsaw, I find it more comfortable.
Paul Dzioba
Which makes me wonder, if a person grows up using a frame saw instead of the British style backsaw, where would the preference lie? I have a couple of Dutch friends of whom I will ask this question. So far, the totally unscientific evidence leads me to the belief that the preference and predominance of a particular saw style is geographic and social in origin. GaryGary Roberts
Dedham, MA USA
http://www.toolemera.com
http://toolemerablog.typepad.com/
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