Replies

1. 
   ring | Nov 20, 2005 01:28pm | #1

   Jim,

   This is only a partial solution, but for about 5 years now I have kept a meticulous record of every finish that goes out of the shop.  It at least solves (more or less) the problem of matching something that I've already done.  Of course the differences from one pile of wood to another are always a factor, as well as the effect of time.  But it has made this part of the job easier nontheless.  I keep a simple database on every client, and every job.  If the client wants the same oak finish as her neighbor got last year, I know exactly what it was.  As far as matching other people's work, you're on your own there.  Opaque colors can be analyzed and reconstituted, but any finish showing wood grain needs your eye and skill (as far as I know, anyway).

   DR

2. 
   Ecbntmkr | Nov 21, 2005 04:16pm | #2

   Jim,
   I am in a similar situation, in that I am trying to learn how to color match and more when it comes to finishing. If you don't have it, get Jeff Jewitt's book "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing". Jeff covers everything in a very thorough and understandable way. He also has his own forum at his site homesteadfinishing.com He has helped me out more than once on the forum or by phone. But as a starting point, I would get his book.
   Eric

   "When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
3. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 22, 2005 05:50am | #3

   Jim,

   If you're talking about matching existing finishes, there's a LOT more to it than matching the color. In many cases you can get the color right but the "look" is very different because the piece you're matching isn't a simple stain and topcoat. It's not unusual for a custom finish to have three or more coloring steps that include dye, stain, glaze, toner and/or shading in the process.

   Since SW isn't having much luck helping you, is there another finish distributor in your area that you can use? A good distributor can save you a LOT of time matching finishes. The alternative is to spend a lot of time experimenting.

   Does SW have a color formula guide for their stain mixing system? Some companies offer an intermix stain system with hundreds of formulas and color samples (.e.g., Triclad). You may want to look in this direction.

   Paul
   http://www.finishwiz.com

1. 
   jimscustomwoodworks | Nov 22, 2005 05:16pm | #4

   thanks so much, i'll check into it...

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 23, 2005 02:38am | #5

   Glad to help Jim. Good luck.Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

4. 
   Kevin | Nov 23, 2005 06:10pm | #6

   I mix some of my own stains. Although I try to stay away from it when I can because it's just easier and faster to use someone else's formula if and when that's an option. I work in the commercial world so that is usually an option, but not always. I actually enjoy the challenge of color matching stains. But, it's usually not the most profitable option for my employer and ultimately we are in business to be profitable.

   Agree with Paul's comment about multi-step finishes. The reality is that there is no substitute for experience when it comes to color matching. The most skilled color matcher out there started out at the same exact position you find yourself in right now.

   I would suggest that you get an artist's color wheel... something that shows you the relationship between colors and what you get when you mix primary or secondary colors. You can also get finisher's color wheels which do the same except with common color groupings used in stains, such as: Raw Umber, Burnt Umber, Raw Sienna, Burnt Sienna, etc. This type of color wheel will also show you approximately what each color looks like at full strength or thinned down at various ratios (ie. lighter in color because the color strength is weaker). I have most of the Sherwin Williams S64 line of water-based stains. Many, but not all of their intermix colors are represented on a finisher's color wheel.

   Foundational to good, consistent color matches is sample control. That means that you need to match the actual condition of the finish sample to whatever the ultimate production run has. So sanding the sample is hugely important. Not just sanding it, but at which grit. For example: A piece of Cherry sanded with 120 grit sandpaper is going to stain significantly darker than the same piece of Cherry sanded with 320 grit. The same goes for every species of wood out there.  The sheen of the protective clear coat over the stained wood also plays a role. Higher gloss brings out warm tones while lower gloss brings out cool tones in the exact same stained wood.

   Finally, since I have to get to work here... when color matching just keep in mind that your stain sample is going to most closely resemble the finished product immediately after you wipe the stain. While it is still wet. Once it dries it will virtually never be a realistic representation of what it'll look like after being clearcoated. So... when you're color matching try to keep your control sample handy and check your stain sample as quickly as possible. This is much faster than having to wait for the sample to dry and then clearcoating it before comparing it with the control sample.

1. 
   jimscustomwoodworks | Nov 24, 2005 01:28am | #7

   thanks so much, since you use the S-W line of waterbase stains, i may later ask for some feednack from you on those, if you don't mind. i use those stains & their wb lacquers extensivly. Hope you have a great holiday!

1. 
   Kevin | Nov 24, 2005 05:46am | #8

   You are very welcome, Jim. And happy holiday to you too. However... I need to point out that although I do have the SW water-based line of stains at work, I very rarily use them. I inherited the line from the old finisher there. Personally I very much prefer solvent-based stains. At present I'm using an M.L. Campbell wipe stain system and the SW universal dye stain concentrates (which are awesome, btw). But, I'm planning on switching over to just SW for 100% of my stain needs in the near future. But, only solvent based when and where I have that option.