Can anyone suggest a good sliding table model or brand? I want some more accurate production out of my shop.
“When the job is perfect, we’re almost done.”
Can anyone suggest a good sliding table model or brand? I want some more accurate production out of my shop.
“When the job is perfect, we’re almost done.”
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Replies
Budget??? Add ons such as the , Jessem, Excalibur, Exactor are the lower limits. Robland, Hammer, Minimax. Rojek, Kufo, Paolini and many others are available.
Do you know web addresses for add-ons? I've seen the jessem not big enough for sheet goods. "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Put the names in a google search. Common sliding tables to handle sheet goods.
Do you have any of these products? Is there one that you would recomend? "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
I have an excalibur "ad-on". Works like a champ. They are sold under the General brand. I got mine at tools-plus.com. They have two models - a 49" and a 60" cross-cut. I've had mine for several years and I love it.
Yeah I did and little research and I ended up at that same website. Thats a nice setup you have there. The sliding table attachment is the way to go in this economy. I can add it on my saw. Thanks "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Is that a maple and purpleheart endgrain cutting board a la The Woodwhisperer that I noticed on your saw? I built five of them--harder than I thought in some ways, but a good experience. I think the one I kept would get used more if it weren't so heavy, and next time I'm going to try the oil and wax finish. Anyway . . .Brian
lol, why yes it is. This one is Hard Maple, Quilted Maple and Purple Heart. I also made 3 or 4 out of Bubinga and Hard Maple.
I used General Finishes Salad Bowl finish and a final coat of Mineral Spirits. The combo is easy and looks great.
I made 7 or 8 of them. Fun projects. Unfortunately, the people that I gave them to don't want to use them because they are so pretty... which is a little of a let-down. I use the heck out of mine, though.
I also have had a little 'problem' with the boards being displayed rather than used. People think its a compliment but the maker doesn't always see it the same, since he built it to be a combination of beauty AND long lasting utility. I.e., if you want beauty, I could have put some veneer under glass. My General Finishes Salad Bowl Finish started to blush/fade/dry out visibly after one or two hand scrubbings with hot soapy water, and that was after three deep coats. Mineral oil will do the same but not as fast or as bad and is easier to refresh, so I'm going to try adding the wax to it to make it even better. Not that you want to talk about finishing . . . small world, though, isn't it?Brian
I was extremely disappointed in the "...blush/fade/dry..." effect. but I was really happy with it after I wiped on a little splash of mineral spirits. Just takes a few seconds and lasts for a month or longer.
I also just did one that I only used mineral spirits on. It's dirt cheap ($1.88 at Walmart) and doesn't stink up the place. The only down side was that the board took a week before it stopped forming little droplets. Not a big deal IMHO.
You are the only person I've ever talked to who considers mineral spirits to be a finish rather than just a solvent. I mean the stuff just evaporates, right? Maybe you mean mineral oil?Brian
oops, yes. Mineral oil. Sorry about that.
I personally don't have either one but have set both brands up for friends table saws. Both are fine and a good entry level start. I've also worked with other panel saws over 35 years in commercial shops. The price jumps up from $3,000 to $75,000 and more in some cases.
Do you have any of these products? Is there one that you would recomend?
I have this - and love it. Handles almost 60" of crosscut. Made by Laguna tools.
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I've seen the jessem not big enough for sheet goods.
I have one and it works for me.. I DO ADMIT that some big sheets will 'bend' it? OK so it is not the strongest support on earth
MY Jessem works... !IF! I have support outside of the saw for larger stuff~
Homey
What are you going to cut? Rough sheet goods or smaller finished panels? Final trim first time out? How accurate and how many repetitions? Whats your budget?
Sheet goods can be handled effectively with most add ons like Excaliber (which I have, but is problematic when I have anything narrower than the distance from the moving sled to the blade) or even the Laguna add on -more precise, but when you are doing smaller work (less than 60% supported by the moving section and thus being guided more by cross bar - not much better than a mitre gauge) you will need a support unit that can ride next to the blade edge. Small "Rockler" type or "Norm" type tables work well in that "gap" area but if you really want the control in the (-)1/32 range and absolute square on small to very large - all in one saw you will have to go to the Euro sliders, plus the USA models (Mini-max, Laguna etc) that Rick L was referring to.
Drawbacks are the Excaliber type units take a big footprint. The Laguna when combined with the table saw makes it the most expensive but you will find by the time you ad on to your basic saw with the big sliders, including the Laguna, the Euros take on a different perceived value. The Euro saws take up a lot of space but you have more stationary tools combined and the panel carrier is only used in extended mode when you are cutting panels and they are big bucks. The large shop made sleds take up a lot of shop room when not used and the smaller units may not fill your needs.
BB
I do alot of custom cabinetry and built-ins. I'm looking for increased productivity with cutting sheet goods for carcases. Space isn't an issue. I have a large area close to my overhead door that designated for a cut table. I want to use my uni saw now for dados and basic table saw work. On the other side of my cut bench I'm not sure if another good size table saw with one of these after market sliding tables is the way to go or shell out the money for one of these euro sliding table saws. My shop is out back of my home so I'm single phase. Alot of bigger shops are selling off equipment do to closing their businesses but their mostly three phase units. Then I have to deal with phase converters and the monthly expense of running a bigger saw. I'm on the fence and need some personal experiences from you all. Thanks "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
There are a lot of advantages to having the slider immediately adjacent to the blade. Before you invest into an attachment option you might want to take a look at a few of the used Felders on the Machine King site. Add a digital gauge to one of those (or even an old solid 3ph slider) and I bet you will find your production and repeatability will go up dramatically.
I would buy an old one plus a 3ph converter before buying an add on. You could probably re-sell a used slider and re-coup most of your $$ if it doesnt work out, whereas if you buy an add on I bet you might only get 50% back on whatever you spend.
Brad
Edited 4/15/2009 12:50 pm ET by brad805
Thanks Brad I appreciate the input. Do you have a sliding tablesaw? "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
I have a Hammer version. Once you try one you will wonder why you waited so long. I suggest you find someone nearby to try one out. For sheet goods I would aim for a 10' slider as it is pretty common to use eccentric clamps (or air clamps) at both ends of the sheets to hold the stock solidly while cutting. The clamps take up some space. The industrial versions do have quite a few advantages other than just big motors. Many have multiple lock points on the slider, are extremely accurate, and have larger crosscut tables for supporting full sheets. My slider only has a center lock point and it can be a pain to load when I am tired.
If you like dado's, felder is one of the few that offers this feature. There are two reasons. The first is the arbor is not nearly as long, and secondly, dados are not common in the big production shops or Europe. All of the top end industrial sliders (Martin, Altendorf, SCM...) come from Europe. To meet the safety regs in Europe, Felder uses a shaper cutter in the saw for dados. The downside is the cutter is expensive, but with the scribers and perfectly flat knives (replaceable inserts), it sure makes wonderful cuts. Many that have the space or dont want to spend $600 on a cutter simply keep their cabinet saw for dados. You can also have your NA dado stack bored to fit a Felder.
There have been many great discussions on the woodweb about the pro's/cons of the various machines. I am by no means the most experienced woodworker.
Brad
Brad,As an option, you can have a Felder or Hammer saw set up for dado capabilities. Forrest is now selling a Dado King set compatible with these saws.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thks Chris. I did have mine equipped for a Dado head. The shaper cutter works great.
Sounds like your on the cusp.A used Euro with a 3 phase converter would be a great way to go. 4 hp is a good size for less volume but you may want to go larger if your doin da big woods. I keep getting notices about used,reconditioned equipment from Felder, Laguna and Mini-max. There might be a deal. They are hurtin like everyone else. Nice things about the Euro styles are the clamp downs for sheet stuff so you don't have near the danger when you happen to throw a borg sheet in the mix. Of course you can always get a power feeder for your cab. I used to build the same stuff when I was younger but now don't really have the need for a slider or my Excaliber.
I have the want for a Euro but not the need. Considering the cost of a miscut on today's veneered face ply for cabs, I would lean toward the Eurostyle. It will probably make you the same money with a lot less strife. You can always work out the dado scenario.INHO, as to safety, all other things being equal and you put an idiot in front of each style of saw, I would put my money on the survival of the one in front of the Euro :)
(of course,that may not be a good thing!) Boiler
I really am. I am setting up my uni saw for dados and other table saw work. No question about that. For the new saw I would like a euro slider but even the used ones are about 7500.00. I can pay out of pocket and over time for another cabinet saw with an excalibur setup. Just not sure how strong the excalibur is if I throw a 4x8 sheet of mdf on that bad boy and starting cutting 22 cabinet side panels back to back on a fence stop.
What spawned all this is my good buddy with the beam saw is closing up shop. I don't have the juice, space and money to buy it off him. In the past I have the material delivered to his shop, I email him the cut list and he calls me when its done. I pick it up and fab the kitchen back in my shop. I have looked around for another guy to cut for me and the ones that are left are too expense for me to compete in this economy. Like alot of guys I want to bring things back in house. The thought of cutting everything again on just a uni saw doesn't sound very appealing. So like everything else in my life I want 10 pounds of sh$t in a 5 pound bag. Thanks for the input gentlemen "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Have you looked at the Grizzly sliding table saw? I had been considering this saw but realized that I just don't need it as a hobbyist and that it'd hog up most of the space in my shop.
http://grizzly.com/products/10-Sliding-Tablesaw/G0623X
My friend has a set up similar to what you're looking to do. It works great for him and saves him tons of time. He has an Inca saw set up for dados and he has a big sliding Martin T74 for sheet goods. He's been trying to talk me into getting a slider.
Thanks for the link. That grizzly looks like the best option for me. Its a very affordable slider. Sounds like your buddy likes his set up. I've been working in different shops for years now and the double tablesaw setup is the only way to go. Thanks again. "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Homes,Don't forget to post pictures of the saw if you get it. I've been wanting to go out the AWFS show in Vegas to see it and all the other cool saws, but that ends up cutting into the saw budget itself!
I have time before I make my purchase but when I do I will always spread the wealth. Your not the first to love their grizzly equipment. My uncle would buy grizzly underwear if they made it. He swears by them. I just never knew that they made an affordable slider. All the sliders I have used are the $10000 to $12000 ones that are 3 phase. They are nice but I don't have 3 phase or do a half of a million bucks of cabinetry a year. I like my quiet shop in the woods. Thanks guys I'll be sure to keep you in the loop. "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Don't be afraid to purchase those Grizzly machines either. I probably would have purchased a slider from them when I was first interested but they had just come out with them so I wasn't sure. I have purchased an 8" jointer, 18" wide belt sander and a whole shop cyclone dust collector from them and their stuff has performed well and their tech service department seems to be as good if not better than any other Co. Their top of the line slider is currently marked down for their spring sale along with free shipping. When I was at the AWFS wood show in Vegas, when they first came out with these, there were a few shops looking at these that were pretty impressed. Yeah, please let us know what you end up with and update us on your experience after you get it set up and in use. Would be much appreciated by those who may be interested in purchasing. When I went looking on the internet for ownership feedback from those who already had one I didn't find much at the time.
Edited 4/27/2009 12:47 pm ET by brownman
Have you looked at the Grizzly sliding table saw? I had been considering this saw but realized that I just don't need it as a hobbyist and that it'd hog up most of the space in my shop.
LOL LOL.. I'm sure I could fit in a free one!
Worstest' thing about my small shop is I always seem to ding' up things I just made moving them form the rafters!
Home,
I have been doing custom woodworking and cabinet making as a side line job for several years now. I have been making money and using the money earned form these jobs to acquire new tools and equipment for my shop. Lately I have received requests for more kitchens and built-ins. This means that I will be cutting more sheet goods. However the volume of work and sales are not enough for me to justify the expense of a Euro-type slider. In addition, I work alone and don't like having to lift and maneuver the sheet all by myself. Maybe you are in the same boat, maybe not. I have been looking at one of the Festool plunge/rail saws for processing sheet goods. At around 1K for the basic saw, rail and dust collector, it would fall easily into reach for a guy like me. In fact, if I get this next job I just bid I will order one. A friend of mine, who has been in business for about thirty years now, and who has a very well equipped shop, including a SCMI slider, surprised me recently by using a Festool. He said he will probably sell the SMCI. Reasons: table for cutting takes up less space than the SMCI, cuts are just as good, maneuvering the small saw and rail is easier than getting the sheets on the saw by himself, whole set-up is portable and can be taken to a job site.
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
Interesting perspective. I have used the festool plunge saw and its a very nice unit. I'm looking for a little more production though. Thanks for the info. "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Another option.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Oh boy panel saws. Yes that is cost effective alternative. I have zero experience with panels saws except when I see the weekend renegades at home depot ask an employee to cut some plywood for them. That looks like a nice unit. Whats the quality of cut with a unit like that? Its an over sized circular saw. "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Quality of cut is superb, accuracy is to 1/32.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
How much wall space does your saw need? "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Don,
I was thinking along those lines also. Have seen some good shops cut reeeel pretty and accurate goodies on that rig. Nice thing about them is that you don't have to flop the panel all over the place. Pull it off the truck and then slice-O-rama. Take up no room - relatively speaking. Clamp wall? We dun't need no stinkin calmp wall!Boiler
I'm getting too old to flop full sheets around!
Much easier to deal with vertically.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
I've got a TS55 and it's the main reason that I don't have a slider! Okay... that and I don't have room or money or do the kind of work that requires a slider. But the Festool is pretty amazing for cutting sheet goods, my friend that has the Martin Slider uses it on job sites...I admit that I've even used the TS55 with the MFT table for gang cross cuts! If I need 4 boards cut at say 28", I put it on the MFT and cut them all to size!That said... I'd still like a slider... They're so cool! I think that i only wood work to have cool tools!
I went through a similar scenario just a little over a year ago and ended up with a MiniMax sliding saw table saw . I had a very pleasant experience thanks to an experienced sales person who is also a woodworker himself. I purchased their best selling model( watch the video on their site MiniMaxUSA.com) and it handles 4 x 8 sheet goods very nicely. All my panels are now perfectly square and flawlessly cut, thanks in part to the scoring blade set up. At that time I paid $9100.00 which included shipping from their Texas based US headquarters. MiniMax saws are a division of SCMI machines,which is one of the largest, if not the largest producer of panel saws in the world. They are headquartered in Italy. Their MiniMax division makes or focuses on manufacturing equipment for the smaller cabinet shops. Their equipment is not meant for the larger shops that have many employees using the same saw all day long, as they are not as robust as their more expensive machines manufactured by SCMI. No matter what you purchase or how much you spend you still have to set up and adjust your saw for accurate cuts unless you buy the industrial models which in case they usually send out a rep to dial it in for you.....................OK! after all this has been said here is and option you may want to consider and which many shops are now switching over to. It's called outsourcing! Many shops are now turning to Co's that only cut cabinet parts for others. This can be a real advantage if you have one in your local area. They can usually do it faster, more accurately and with less expense than you can on your own. This way you don't have to purchase,maintain, or fit a saw into your already crowded shop. You also don't have to order or pick up the sheet goods. If there's a shop in your area that does this then it's a win , win situation saving you time and money. Something to definitely consider. Hope this helps.
Edited 4/26/2009 2:54 am ET by brownman
Thanks for the info. I did out source alot when I was busier and my guy was still in business in my area. Thats why I'm resorting to accuracy in my own shop to handle sheet goods. My last order for out sourcing went south during the middle of the project and the company closed their doors. In these tough times I'm tightening up the leash and keeping more things in house for two reasons: times are slow so I can justify my time more on certain labor and two I will have better quality control and a dependable time table. So thats what has spawned this whole thing. I do appreicate the mini max info I will look into it. Thanks "When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
Your welcome! You may also want to check the "Business" threads on this site under "MiniMax Vrs Felder' to gain more knowlege about dealing with these European Co's that sell the sliding tables.
There are options all the map for sliding tablesaws. From the Martins, Altendorfs, to the Italian offerings. Even China is getting into the mix. I just took delivery of a Laguna Pro 6 sliding tablesaw. I chose this size due to the size of my shop (16 X 24).
Do your research. There are lots of options. A couple of years ago I got the Festool saw with the guide rail, after making a mess of a sheet of hardwood plywood. It is now gathering dust, but I will still keep it for remote jobs away from the shop.
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