I’ve yet to use a scraper, but would like to try on a current project. Instructions I’ve read indicate to use your fingers/thumbs to bend a slight curve in the scraper. Question is, if I’m scraping out a shallow (1/8″) recess with right angles on the sides, can I get a good surface throughout the bottom using a scraper — e.g., not bending the scraper…..???
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Edited 1/23/2005 1:39 pm ET by forestgirl
Replies
Forest Girl,
Yes you can, the scraping action will be less agressive but you will still be able to get good shavings as long as the blade has a sharp burr. Once you work with the scraper for a few minutes you will be able to figure out how to angle the blade and where to place your hands to work into corners and along edges.
John W.
Edited 1/23/2005 2:53 pm ET by JohnW
Thanks John, your post gives me the encouragement I needed. Pennies are tight, so I'm buying only the things that work this week! The tool shop in the next town carries a limited selection of scrapers, so I'll check 'em out.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
F.G.
Having recently gone through the scraper learning curve I can shed some light on my experiences. You need the bow in the scraper to expose a smaller cutting age. If you don't have the bow the scrapper will just skip across the top of the wood. At first glance you would think that the scrapper would dish out the surface that you just worked so hard to get flat, not so. The "depth" of cut is so slight that the hollow created is imperceptable. I'm sure you have read that you should see shavings not dust. It takes lots of practice to get the shaving to come off just right, but when you do you will realize what a usefull tool it is.
Best of luck.
Tom in Virginia
I've been wanting to try one for awhile, I guess this project is just the excuse I needed! JohnW seems confident I can use one without the curved approach (this is a very small surface).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'm not sure what you are trying to do, Jamie. Are you speaking of using a card scraper or a scratch stock? You can use a card scraper without bending it and you can get the edge of it tight against a corner or other restriction. Even though they are 5"-6" long, you can use just a small part of them by the pressure you apply. I find that pulling, instead of pushing, is often a more controllable way to use them.
The issue with card scrapers is learning how to sharpen them. I have quite a few different brands and have found that the $6-8 Sandvik's 030 are as good as any. Once you learn to use them, you'll love them. They are much easier to use than planes or scraper planes and you will get the shimmering surface of a fresh cut, that sanding just can't match. They really only work well with hardwood and better with open grained woods. You can use them with or tangential to the grain, even cross grain in some cases. They don't work with pine, redwood, etc
I finally got my camera and computer to work together. I'd be happy to send some pictures of the sharpening process if you'd like.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hi Hammer, thanks for the offer of pics, and congrats on getting the technical stuff down. I have a couple of articles on hand from magazines. If I run into problems putting the instructions into practice, I'll let you know. Thanks too for the tip on the Sandvik.The wood I'd like to use for these is Alder, but if it proves to soft, I may go to maple or oak (oak's a last resort). Alder is technically a hardwood, but it's a pretty soft hardwood!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl
If you are up against the side at a right angle. You will need to pull the scraper instead of pushing. To do this inside I tilt the scraper slightly forward and lead with the edge against the side. If I am taking down an edge that was glued on ply or solid. I always use a push stroke to take it down fast. Then pull stoke to flatten out. The out side edge has a tendency to stay a little high with a push stroke. Watch out for hot thumbs.
C
I can heartily recommend getting a good scraper or two and just start scraping. There are many ways to burnish a card scraper, and you need to find the one that you like. The only way to do this is to scrape away.
The results will amaze anyone who has only sanded before. Even 400 grit paper leaves 400 little lines per inch; a well tuned card scraper makes a clean cut.
I have Sandvik and LN card scrapers, plus an assortment of old ones I picked up from the place down by Portage Bay. I use them for removing dried glue and doing quick stock removal. You'll be amazed at what a thick card scraper can do to hog off wood fast.
Go buy some card scrapers today if you haven't already. You'll learn how to get the most from them by just doing.
Paul, thanks to you too! I'm sold, off to the store tomorrow morning.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG, I roll a bur on lots of cutting tools for the situation you are up against.
One of my favorite tools for this is an old plane iron. I sharpen it just like I would for the plane ( razor sharp) then, with an un-handled burnisher laying on the workbench top, and with the tool held tightly in my fist, I start rolling back and forth with the edge tilted to about 45 degrees as I gradually bring the body up to 90 degrees. When I am done, I can still shave with the edge, and cut clean little shavings that you can see through.I hold this with one hand on the pull stroke, with my forefinger just touching the work behind the cutting edge. This little tactile feedback gives me a good idea when I am finished.
I also do this with cheap chisels all of the time when I need a very narrow one.
One of the best things I have found for getting a paint sag or run off is to roll an edge on a single edge razor blade. because you by flexing it you can remove only the drip without touching the surface around it until it is flat.Another
Hey, root, I'll keep your post and figure out how to do what you're describing. I'm a little short on skill for that one, 'cause I have yet to learn how to sharpen a plane blade! My self-imposed deadline of Feb. 1 for learning the scary-sharp system is looming, so better get movin' on that one. Chisels first, though, then plane irons.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
For deep concave scraping, buy the scraper shaped like a draftsman french curve.
Just read this thread. So , for curiosity sake, entered "sharpening scrapers" in the google search. 78,100 hits. Scanned the first 40 and saw titles for just about everything you would want to know about scrapers. Number of articles listed from Tauton Press.
You may want to go there and read more. I am going back to that site in a moment.
Been using scrapers for a long time. Card type, Stanley 80, 12 and LN. VERY handy time saving techniques.
Have Fun Dick (It's below freezing right now @ 200 yards from the Mississippi Sound..not New England weather however)
Glad to hear there's that much on the 'net about scrapers. I should be able to locate the magazine article(s) I've spotted in the past, but I can use the 'net stuff to fill in any gaps.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,
You do not have to bend the scraper although it works more aggesively that way. For what you want to do, sharpen the shorter edges and use them. What I do is slighly file a round on the corners so that the scraper corner does not dig in--sort of what you do with plane. Put the scraper agains the inside of the cutout and draw it toward you.
Experiment with the angle until you find the sweet spot (angle). Also, be aware that scrapers do not do well on softer woods but work great on harder woods.
"....be aware that scrapers do not do well on softer woods but work great on harder woods." Hmmmmm, this may not work well with Alder but I'll try it anyway. Can't hurt, and I'm sure I'll learn some stuff in the process.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
I may be picturing your situation incorrectly, but I'm wondering if a spokeshave wouldn't help in this case? I have a square, rectangle, triangle, teardrop and something I like to call the "wierd teardrop" - can't really describe it another way.
Also, re: the scraper, some may consider this unworthy of the craft, but I've been having an awfull time getting decent hooks on my card scrapers. A couple of days ago, I bought a Veritas scraper burnisher, which actually allows you to dial in the angle of the hook, and also comes with a scraper. I couldn't believe the kind of wispy shavings I was getting with my scrapers after using the Veritas burnisher. Obviously, I lack the proper manual burnishing technique, but I have other skills I'd rather spend time honing (pun intended), and I'm really happy with the purchase. It's about $25, so you may not want to spend the bucks now. Just a thought.
See ya,
Mitch
Hey, Mitch, thanks for the review on the Veritas burnisher. I've seen it in their catalog (I like their stuff!) and had it on the "possibilities" list. Can't afford it right now -- the island population has their wallets locked up somewhere, and my sales are in the deep freeze! But I'll move it up to the "definite" list.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,
I think I may be experiencing early Alzheimer's. I looked at your reply this morning said to myself "Why the heck would you use a spokeshave???!!!???"
While my fingers and at least part of my brain said "spokeshave," the pictures in my mind were of my shavehooks. And given the dimentions of your project, I'm not sure why these couldn't work quite well, since they're intended for spaces where larger scrapers aren't applicable.
Each of the shavehooks I mentioned (when I called them spokeshaves) is $9 at Woodcraft, or $32 for the set, which you probably don't need today.
Best regards from the Center for the Brain-Addled. Wish you were here,
Mitch
PS: I dunno about a spokeshave. The area to be scraped is a ~3x3" square recess, a little over 1/8" deep. Pretty delicate edges and pretty confined space.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I just bopped over to the Lee Valley site to check out the burnisher. I think I'll save up for the "set" they sell:http://www.leevalley.com/shopping/AddViews.aspx?p=45948
Pretty good deal for $68. This is the type of stuff that makes me really appreciate Lee Valley. That adjustable burnisher is great!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,No need to save up for a scraper and burnisher, unless you want to. If you can find an old handsaw that was once of decent quality, the metal, and blade thickness, is the same as a purchased scraper. Note that scrapers can be any variety of thicknesses, from .015 to .035. They can be cut with a hack saw, or a metal cutting blade in a jigsaw. Using old saw blades for scrapers gives you the chance to make them in the sizes you need, such as for your current project. The hardness of both saw blades and scrapers is in the RC57 range. A scraper can be as small as you need. I would not roll an edge on a chisel as there is no need to do so, and resharpening later is a PITA.You will need to get a real square and flat edge on the edges. For this, the jig shown in the FWW shop tips of this month is great. It is quite similar to the one in Graham Blackburn’s book on traditional handtools. I have used it for years. A sharp file is important. I then use a diamond sharpening stone, as the scraper will quickly cut a groove in a waterstone. An india stone is fine also. Note that if you hold all the angles on the jig at a dead on 90, you can simply place the jig on top of a stone, and run the scraper flat along its edge, tight to the 90 of the jig. In terms of a burnisher, use oil, but you don’t need a dedicated burnisher. The edge of a chisel is what Frid always used. A valve stem from an auto mechanics trash bin works well also, some have written. If you buy a burnisher, my preference is the teardrop shaped one, as you can get in smaller places with it. Note that a scratch stock is simply a scraper, with a profile filed or cut into it. I do all my beading with scratch stocks as it is faster that setting up a router.Push, or pull, matters not. What ever is more comfortable. Note that if you are getting in to a corner, you risk scraping not only the bottom, but also the adjacent, vertical surface. This is fixable by filing a slight radius on the vertical (as held) edge of the scraper. While you are at it with the saw blade, make one about 2" by 4", and put a pretty heavy burr on the 4 edges. Keep it for a dedicated glueline scraper. Do your edge glue up, and leave the squeezeout alone till at least partially dry. Then just scrape the glueline, and it is clean, with no risk of water diluted glue (ala Norm) contaminating the surrounding wood, and showing up only when you go to finish. If you get any chatter while using the scraper, you will get a bit of a washboard look. To fix, simply hold the scraper at an angle so it rides only on the top of the ridges, and they will quickly go away.Keep your scraper handy at the bench; you will use it often, including to clean up your bench after glue drops, finishes, nicks, etc., occur.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Hi Alan. Thanks for the suggestions and great detail. I especially appreciate your mention of cutting up old saws to make scrapers. Thanks to our (my husband and I) past penchant for going to estate auctions, there are many, many old saws laying around, most of which are dead! What a great idea.
I also have several old, cheap chisels laying in a drawer, good for burnishing.
I'll buy my first scraper just to save time, but I'll bet I can get hubby to cut up some saw blades -- he doesn't like to throw things away, so he'll like that idea.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hey Jamie,My suggestion would be to pass on the Veritas scraper package and save your money for the Veritas burnisher that Mitch suggested. I have one and it's the greatest thing since the scraper itself.While I think anyone using a scraper should learn to turn the edge using a straight burnisher, I also know that if I'm out of practice, that it will take me several attempts to get a consistent bevel, and hook. With the Veritas burnisher the edge is turned perfectly with a couple of passees, and I can get back to work in less time.Tom
The package includes the burnisher, did you not see that? Who knows, maybe I'll get so good at doing it without aids, I won't have to worry about any of it, LOL! We'll see.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Ahh,Well you know, I did see the burnisher, but I didn't recognize it because mine's made of wood and the new one appears to be plastic.Given Veritas' reputation for quality, I'm sure that it's every bit as good as the older model.Tom
I've got the veritas variable burnisher, and it sits in the drawer most of the time. Its an excellent tool, but now that I have lots of experience with the scraper, I just use my Klein Phiillips # 2 screwdriver to pull the hook & turn it over. IMHO seems to work better than most burnishers.
make sure to file the edges of your scraper to 90 deg, take off the filings with a stone, then pull an edge using a burnishing rod, then turn it over.
If someone shows you how to do it it's easy to pick up the procedure. Many proceedures in print & on the web are confusing, but get to the same point.
I just got a set of 4 scrapers from Lee Valley. Not bad I guess for $12.I don't have a burnisher, or anything, yet. Haven't dulled them enough yet.I spent a bit last night working on the shop, and thought i'd scrape my workbench. I've heard that you plane your bench, but mine is just a sheet of B-C ply, so I didn't think it'd hurt.I'm wondering what the shavings should look like? I used both the pull, and push method, and i think I could feel when it was working the best.Here is a photo to help tell me if I'm on the right track
Typically scrapers don't come with a burr turned up on their edge, so while you are getting some scraping action with your blades, you aren't getting the type of cut that you would get with a properly set up blade. A freshly sharpened scraper with a fresh burr on it will turn up tissue thin shavings, not the dust that you are getting.
John W.
thin shavings eh? That's to bad, I liked breathing that fine dust so much =(just kidding.Ok, I'll try and learn how to turn an edge. I think there is a good video on this site that was showing how to do that. Maybe that will help.Thanks for the help!
Hi Bryon. I stopped by Tom's shop yesterday, and he graciously showed me how to sharpen a scraper. It was very cool! Then he actually let me use it to practice on a piece of hickory. Rewarding activity, for sure.
One thing he emphasized, and it was easy to see why, is that there isn't a huge amount of force involved in using the scraper when it's sharpened properly, with that sweet little microscopic "hook" on the edge. It seems like a real Zen thing when it gets going. Too fun.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Only too happy to help.With any luck, you will be the first of many folks who learn the satisfaction of good basic technique in that place. Now that you've done it, you can give the demonstration at our first meeting of Northwest Knotheads.Are you up for it?Tom
"Are you up for it?" As long as it isn't tomorrow! (Do have to practice a little first, LOL!)
Turns out I have to go back over the water on Friday, so I'm going to buzz over to Rockler and pick up the scraper/burnisher/file kit and the shave hook set we talked about.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi f_gSurprised that no-one's picked up on the fact that you're scraping a recess to 1/8" deep.This is far too deep for a scraper to do easily - it's still possible to do, but not quickly/easily/accurately.I's set up a trimmer (or if you're sold on a hand tool method, a hand router) and cut the recess with either.Then clean up with a scraper if you wish.CHeers,eddie
Hi eddie. I think most respondants got the picture, although as I review my first post I see it wasn't explicit: I have routed a 1/8" deep recess and need to smooth the bottom so that it accepts finish well.I've tried a shave hook and am going to try a small scraper also, we'll see which works the best!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
No, a sharp scraper takes fairly little force to work. In fact, one of the ways you know you need to sharpen it is when more force is needed. Re-burring takes only a couple of moments. Generally it can be done to all four edges within 1-2 minutes.Talking of force, fairly little force is required to form the burr. Too much force will gall, or rip out, the metal. 2-3 light strokes is all that's required.Meant to add the even though you use little force, the blade will still get hot. I use leather work gloves if I'm going to be scraping more than a couple of minutes. Also, there are some inexpensive scraper holders that even pre-form the arc that work well and save your fingers both from the heat and the constant strain of holding the bend.Howie.........
Edited 1/27/2005 11:52 am ET by Howie
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