Resisting the sliding miter saw
forestgirl
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I’m having a hard time resisting this miter saw <click> on Craig’s List right here on the Island. How much more space will this take up than my Bosch 12″ CMS? Is it harder to design dust collection? Give me a reason not to email the guy! I like the idea of being able to cross-cut 12″ boards without flipping them around and doing 2 cuts.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
In-significant amount.. No... There is no reason "not to" an a abundance of reason "too".. 12" is small change compared to flip it and do 24".
I've had either a Hitachi 10" or 12" for over 5 years which with a retracting side support (4" wide in closed position and handles 16' stock open) do all cross-cutting on the SCMS. 23" panels just yerterday and the same capability to do molding as a standard CMS.
Good luck Lady of the Forest....
Sarge..
Edited 7/4/2008 7:59 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge, is there a good picture of your miter saw station around here somewhere?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Probably.. but not a clue where. I had several on file but had to replace a CPU Monday and they are on the old hard drive which hasn't been transferred yet. I will take some today.. but Miss Lisa (the official picture processor and putter-on-er :>) is on the other side of Atlanta at my BIL's as one of her remaining sisters and family are visiting from PA.
So.. I will get them posted ASAP.. both retracted and extended. I had to size down some 14' stock yesterday to prep for drawer fronts. It certainly works for me and takes a minimal amount of space when retracted.
Sarge..
Thanks, Sarge, hope you had a good 4th!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
Overall dimensions are 31 1/2X23 1/4X27, LxWxH. Six years ago they were still being made in Georgia and were very solid saws.
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P.J. O'Rourke
How much can I get out of my well-cared-for Bosch 12", 2 years old?? I guess I'll drop the guy an email, see if he's around tomorrow.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If it's possible I would keep them both and put them side to side on a long bench. You saw how mine were set up. It saves an amazing amount of time having a slider and a miter side by side. It would pay for itself in your time pretty fast.
I would guess you could get 1/2 to 2/3rds out of your Bosch if you are forced to sell. As you can tell by Craigslist the timing is not good right now for selling tools.
The Makita 1212 you are looking at sold for $700 and up.Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
Hi, Don. Space and money constraints limit my ability to keep both. Price on the newer 1214 is $464 at Amazon, I'm sure higher at brick and mortar stores, but that sets the playing field when calculating a used price. I'd try to get $200 for my Bosch, it's at $244 new, as it's an older model.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Keep your 12" saw, even if you buy a slider. Something not often noted in tool reviews is that in general a 12" non-sliding miter saw has a larger depth capacity than equivalent (in money terms, at least) sliding miter saw.
Personally, I prefer using my table saw to cross-cut or miter wide pieces, and my miter saw for cross-cutting or mitering deep (i.e., 4X6) pieces.
Note that a silder will take up a lot of room if you have a small shop. That said, I have a great deal of respect for Milwaukee, Hitachi and Makita portable power tools, and should something be wrong with the saw from Craig's list, you can get repairs done on those brands at most tool repair shops.
Dkeller, I've decided to keep the Bosch until my husband gets the deck built, I'll let him use that for the construction, hide the Makita away for my use. ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have had terrible luck with that saw.
The detente lock mechanism is chinsey to say the least. All
the force ultimately transferred to a 1/4" piece of square stock
pressing into a shallow groove in the bottom of the deck.
Mine wore out and had to buy a whole new base.
Less then a year later it wouldn't hold a 45.
There is no real way to adjust the angle detentes.
The fence is often not straight, and can be bent easily.
I went through mine, gave it away and joined up with a new partner
who has that saw. His has all the same problems.
We switched to my Dewalt and never looked back.
Edited 7/5/2008 3:49 am ET by Henley
Thanks, Henley, for the heads-up on those two issues. I'll look carefully, and take a straight-edge with me. I'm really quite happy with my Bosch, especially the large table and the tank-like construction. Detents are super-solid.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Flip the saw over and study the locking mechanism.
I think you'll be less then impressed.
You probably use your saws harder than I would. BTW, you can adjust the detents, instructions are in the book. The fence on this one is dead flat, I took a straightedge out to check.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Happy new saw!
May it cut true and never need sharpening.
I will hold off on the craig list if you want to mull it over for a while.
Cheers,
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I Peter, I just sent you an email. I think you can do better selling that saw than you might think, depending on the condition. I'm hesitant because of the expense of shipping it to Seattle, or the cost of gas to go up and get it.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/5/2008 11:10 pm by forestgirl
I have had that exact saw and it has worked extremely well for me. As a hobbiest, it doesn't get carpenter type use though. I don't think it was really designed for the rough and tumble commercial world. I was surprised by how often I use that full 12" cut. The fence is smallish and if I used it more than I do, I'd be tempted to do something about that.
I looked at the saw this morning, and noticed how short the fence is, but wow! does it cut sweet. The woman who's selling it uses a DeWalt for construction work (she and her partner built their house), but has always kept the Makita in the shop for furniture and finish work in the house, moldings and such. It looks pristine. Only "oops" is that the right stock-support got lost somewhere along the way, and I use those stock supports. Oh well....
I'm going to pick it up on Monday evening. I think it's a really good saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Makita makes a sub fence to increase the height for crown molding etc. The part no. is 192651-4.
Congratulations I think you will be very happy with the saw!
The part no. for the missing extension is 322312-4Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
Thanks for the details on the parts, Don. I use the stock supports on my Bosch alot, and am not ready to build a station for the Makita. BTW, I'm going to keep the Bosch for a few months, so Nick can use it to build our deck -- he's kinda hard on tools, rather he take it out on the Bosch, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I don't think you will be disappointed. I have thought about getting one of those portable mitre saw stands for it many times, but have yet to pull the trigger.
Scott, re: miter saw stand. I bought the Ridgid a couple years ago ($99 annual sale), for the Bosch saw I have. It ended up with my planer on it though (see pic below). Ridgid has a new design now, made to swap out different tools using platforms. Still built like a tank, though, I really like mine and they've addressed an issue or two with the new design. We'll use the stand for the Bosch during deck building, then put the planer back on it. Would like to find room for a miter saw station for the Makita.
View Image
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/6/2008 10:43 am by forestgirl
FG -
I don't think that you'll regret buying that saw. I've had mine for almost three years and it's worked fine for me. Mine rarely leaves the shop so I can't argue with those who question it's durability so I'll stay out of that one. - lol
Make sure that you get the owners manual and spend some time dialing it in. IIRC, I spent a couple of hours tweaking everything, but the detents are all dead-on after three years.
You'll also want to buy (or build) some kind of stand for it. I bought the DeWalt stand when I bought the saw and it's pretty good. With the extensions run out, I can easily cut long pieces of crown or base. The extensions provide great support for long stock, but I don't try to use the stops for repeat cuts. There's enough movement in them to give you a fair amount of error.
You'll definitely want to make (or buy) some kind of dust hood. The dust bag gets quite a bit of the sawdust, but lots of it still gets sprayed all over the place. I made mine from some junk plywood and plastic sheeting about a year ago. The idea was to do a prototype and see what worked and what didn't - then make a "real" one. The prototype has worked so well that I haven't bothered to improve it. Maybe someday when I get one of those round toits. - lol
I'll post some pictures if you're interested.
Hi, Dave, thanks for the notes. I'll admit, the Makita doesn't look like it's made to bounce around in the back of a pick-up. It's more for the Gentle Contractor, methinks.
Now that I have a table saw again, it's time to build a decent miter saw stand. I don't think I can splurge on a commercial portable stand (like the Ridgid above) and I'd like to have a bit more fence for the Makita, we'll see how it goes.
I did the prototype-thing too, for a dust-hood. It works quite well for 90* and bevel cuts, needs some improvement for mitered cuts. Here's a pic:
View Image
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/6/2008 10:55 am by forestgirl
Hi FG -
You may have seen these in other posts, but here are a couple of pics of my setup. I totally surrounded my saw with the hood and sized it to clear the saw at 45* in either direction as well as raised to full height. The bottom of the hood has a dust port tied to my DC and I lay a foundation vent screen over the hole to keep small cutoffs from being sucked into the DC and whacking the impeller.
I use it with the dust bag in place and the DC provides enough air flow around the saw so that I have very little dust escaping into the shop. Not all of it gets sucked into the DC, however, so I need to vacuum the bottom once in a while.
My next "improvement" will be the addition of some threaded rod to the blast gate so I can operate it without crawling under the stand. These old, wore out, knees don't appreciate concrete floors like they used to and I often don't open the gate for a "couple of quick cuts". - lol
Edited 7/6/2008 11:39 am by Dave45
"These old, wore out, knees don't appreciate concrete floors like they used to and I often don't open the gate for a "couple of quick cuts"." I hear ya there! I've had the black rubber, interlocking mats for some time now but much of that had to come up with the introduction of the Unisaw. Those pads are knee savers, for sure. I also have a little rolling seat that has a tray under it, handy for sitting low and working on a tool, or cleaning the pellet stove out.
Thanks for the pics!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
My mats are grey and have been looking pretty bad for quite a while what with blobs of glue, stain/finish drips, coffee spills, etc.
I have some at the TS and at my bench and carry a couple with me when I go out for installations. My only questions are "How long have those been legal and why wasn't I told sooner!!" - lol
Ok, enough of this levity. I have another bid to write and a couple of designs to work on so I can finalize some estimates. Where's this recession I keep hearing about? I have a bigger backlog than I've ever had. (knock on wood) - lol
It's really good to hear that business is going good for you! The Bay Area might be weathering the recession better than other parts of California. Seattle's doing pretty OK also, but can't say the same for our stock portfolio (read: retirement fund). Ouch!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dave,
Nice setup with the cutting table and the Makita saw! I have that saw, and a similar set up, though yours is quite a bit fancier...
One thing I noticed in your photos is that you've got the original-equipment dust collection bag hanging off the back of the saw. I replaced that with a small Shop Vac hose that is also plumbed into my dust collector. A huge improvement! There's a lot of dust that flies up into that round port, and if you can suck it up before it becomes airborne, you cut down hugely on the amount of it getting out into that air.
I'm going to lay some hardware cloth on top of my collection port at the base of the hood unit, as you suggested. I'm tired of hearing that "whang" of a little piece getting thrown about by the impeller. Good suggestion that...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Zolton -
As I said in my earlier post, this hood was sorta jury-rigged together to see how well it would work - or if it would work at all. - lol
When (if?) I ever get me one of those round tuits, I plan to make a better one which will include a couple of small improvements - including a way to eliminate the dust bag. A 1.25" vac hose may be just what I need.
Dear Jamie,
I have used several sliders on a daily basis over the years and there are better ones out there. Bosch make a good saw, I am partial to the Hitachi's, although the new ones have a bit too much "funk" for me. I have found the following with the Makita's:
1) Over all they are a bit awkward compared to the Hitachi's, perhaps that is a personal preference.
2) The noise is the killer for me. There something about the pitch of the motor that just drives through a person.
3) The way that the return spring is located, it will jam up with dust and begin restricting downward motion.
4) In it's defense, I think that the Makita "slide" is the the smoothest.
5) For $300.00 or so, it IS hard to turn down, but I would still pass on it.............. maybe :-)
Overall in the past twenty years I have chosen two Hitachi 8 1/2" sliders and one 10" slider over the rest of the field. The 10" is my daily saw and cuts everything from 2x 12's to beading. I even rip on it, although that is not for the feint of heart.
Best,
John
Edited 7/5/2008 3:49 pm ET by Jmartinsky
Hi, John, thanks for the info. I'll be a light user compared to you, so I think the action is something I can get used to (or ignore). It slides like a dream, and with that Chopmaster blade on it, cuts incredibly smooth. If it weren't for the blade, I'd probably try to bargain a bit, but I just told her I'd take it, picking it up on Monday evening. I'll watch the dust, try to collect it, LOL. Noise isn't a problem, I'm used to using my ear protectors with the Miter saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dear Jamie,I had included that at that price, it was a steal, in particular with that blade, but you were looking for a way out and I tried to help, so I edited it out. I don't think that you could go wrong with that saw. As I recall, they used to go for over $600.00, so again, good buy.Best,JohnPS. You'll see the spring that I mean. It is no big deal.
Thanks for the effort, John, I just couldn't resist once I fired it up and cut a piece of wood with it. Slick! There's one piece that I've made 3 units of, coat rack/cupboard thing, that requires crosscutting 12" poplar. I've already got people asking me whether I'd make one (or two, or three) this fall, and it'll be a better saw to work with for that alone.
She said she cuts grooves with it quite often too. It'd probably be safer using the SCMS than on the table saw, and more accurate possible (36" long pieces, 8"-12" wide).
Turns out she's selling it because she's getting (got?) the Kapex. Wow, that thing's making a splash. Can't imagine spending that much $$ on a miter saw, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have that saw and love it. Remember to lubricate the table ways frequently so the movement is smooth for miter cuts...it is just aluminum sliding on aluminum.
Geeze, I never thought about lubing the table ways. I need to do that on my Bosch. Always thought when it gets stubborn, it's because of sawdust piling up underneath the table.
Teflon spray OK? That's what I use on my table saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Don't use ue compressed air to clean the tubes/ways. It only forces the sawdust into the bearings and all the nocks and crannies. Destroyed an 8.5 Hitachi that way. Just wipe or vacuum them off.Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
Got it! Thanks, Len.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I use Pedro's Ice Wax for all my shop equipments' moving parts. It is a high end bicycle lube and really seams to make things slippery without collecting dust like oil would. I'm sure that teflon would work fine.
That's a good idea.
One thing I'd watch for is rust. The waxes don't seam to prevent it as well as oil.
But as long as the shop is dry, the wax would be a great alternative.
I think the Teflon spray is one I got at the local bike shop. It seems to work great. It was here at Knots that I first learned about bike lubrication being great for woodworking tools, as both work better if the lube doesn't attract dust (or dirt).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl,
You do realize that this is the wrong place to post for a reason to "not" buy a tool. This is a forum to pretend that you want to be talked out of something but really just want some one to tell you that it's the best thing since sliced bread and that you need to have it!
BTW: I love my Makita 10inch SCMS, I think that it may have been the first nice power tool I bought. It's still running strong. I finally replaced the blade with a FWW I when I was trimming out my house. It was like a whole new saw. The FWW I on that saw cuts like a hot knife through butter!
I use the new makita double slidinding saw 71/2 in. blade. Has the same cutting length as my 12 in dewalt. Only thing diff. is you have to cut crown on the flat or any tall trim to get your compound mitres.Price in can.ran me around 500.00
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