OK, getting down the basics of cutting the tree — I was window shopping chainsaws yesterday, and one of the blurbs touted the fact that the buck-somethings were metal. Whooopee. So, I found them on the saw — they were those jagged pointy teeth-things sticking out of the front next to the bar. What are these, and what do they do?
Truth be told, most of my chainsawing will be for firewood, but we have a couple of small apple trees that might evolve into jewelry boxes or sump’in.
PS: The reason I’m buying a chainsaw is because my sweetie keeps killing his, a good-sized gas-powered thing. Is this normal? Is it normal to have burn marks on the surfaces that were cut. Does he need remedial chainsawing lessons, or just a sharper chain?
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 8/11/2003 2:28:39 AM ET by forestgirl
Replies
They are to scare big bucks in the woods. : }
They are a pivot point so you can put down pressure on the chain bar by lifting the handle up in the back.
They give you more control of the saw. To keep the saw cutting some in a straight line.
Forestgirl...I've read enough of your messages to know you like pulling the odd leg, however, if your question is on the level I will answer in detail and give you a number of books to read.....only in Canada you say.
Thanks, Terry
They bite into the bark layer to give you a fulcrum to cut. They also provide a stationary point so the saw doesnt wander on your cut (helps it stay plumb) If youre having to force the saw its either really hard dense wood, dry or your chain is dull.
As far as killing saws, buy a stihl or if you have to husquavarna. Find a dedicated small motor shop that knows chainsaws. Avoid going to department stores to buy a saw. Sharp chains are a must. Dull chains are dangerous and slow.
Get safety gear, chaps are a must as are earmuffs and some sort of safety glasses in the form of a sheild or glasses.
FG, the "bucks" are what hold the saw to the wood, steel is better than soft alloy or plastic. Chainsaws have a huge tendancy to pull themselves into the log. The bucks give you some control over this - typically you approach a cut by reving up the blade and engaging the bucks before you start cutting. you then use the bucks as a fulcrum as you cut, repositioning the saw as needed. Unless you have very strong arms and wrists try to avoid making a cut without engaging the bucks.
Look for a saw with auto chain lubrication and an anti-kick back chain brake - this is a device that as the saw kicks back towards your head smashes into your wrist and disengages the chain - at worst you end up with a sore wrist and superficial cuts rather than major self performed surgery. Always wear gloves and eye protection, (hearing protection is also a very good idea), and if you're felling a tree ask some one who knows how to show you what to do. Lastly, get a sharpening guide and battery powered field sharpener and keep the chain sharp, with the right clearance and properly tensioned. My guess is your sweetie is using a blunt unlubricated chain and twisting the saw in the kerf.
Jamie: Chain Saws Now your talking about something that I Know about!! with living in the middle of the woods here I have been around them for years & have owned & used a boat load of em.. First off the #1 most important thing is to always use a Very Sharp chain!! #2 is always make sure to use plenty of chain cutting oil..#3 is Buy a Trusted Name Brand & stay away from the cheapies.. Stihl,Homelite,Echo,HusQvarna are a few of the Goodies soo don't go to your K Mart & buy a Poulan & expect it to be the Cats Meow cause it ain't.. I bought a regular sharpener for my chain loops its just like the ones the Pro Sharpeners use.. but then I use my saws all year round.take yours to a local sharpener & get them sharpened you will see a world of diffrence in your cutting, it doesn't take long for them to get dull soo buy extra chains this way you can swap em like you do saw blades for your WW tools..
PS>> the Most important advise I can give you is BE VERY CAREFULL when using any chainsaw, because I Like you with all your parts attached..<G>
ToolDoc
Edited 8/11/2003 1:25:11 PM ET by TOOLDOC
TD, I'm going back and re-reading these posts now that the chainsaws are soon back in operation. Am curious about Homelite saws, as when I was in the repair shop waiting for a couple of chains to be finished, a man came in with a Homelite saw. They counter person sadly informed him that they couldn't repair it because they had no access to Homelite parts (the shop sells Husqvarna and a couple of other brands of equipment, pretty big shop). Sounded almost like the "Craftsman Dilemma" with regard to parts. Any idea why???forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
First Lady of the Forest: You had me wondern about the Homelite line of saws & equipment thought there for a moment that maybe they had either folded up or was bought out by another Mfg..I was at my local equipment deal today he is a biggie sells & services all types of Equipment, I noticed he still stocks the Homelite line,soo I asked if they still service em,he said yep no problem gettin parts soo why your Handy Dandy Dealer doesn't have them I have no idea.. could be he is only repairing equipment that he now sells.. they like to play games like that,ya know!! i checked Homelits webby site sure enough there makin only 3 models of chain saws & offer repair parts..hmm they use to offer more models years ago, I first started out with a Homelite a Big Blue colored Beast wighed a ton..LOL,later got a nice little Red colored Homelite with a 16" blade stll have I use it for takin off limbs,then I started using Stihl never looked back..<G>
ToolDoc
Hmmmmm, sounds like Homelite's marketing share is shrinking, eh??
OK, TD, tell your buddy here -- what's the proper way to support branches and small trees when you're cutting them? The branches I can put in a Workmate-type thing, tighten it down, and cut away. But I see in the pictures that big trees, of course, are on the ground. How do I cut up a tree without getting dirt into the chain?? That seems to be a big no-no, understandably. The 6" tree (~25' tall) I cut down today landed on a big bunch of salal, which was a convenient work surface.
Also, how much chain/bar oil is enough? The little electric saw must be oiled manually using a button that releases the oil. I have yet to figure out exactly how it gets to the chain, but just know how much is appropriate would be helpful.
Hope you have a good weekend on your horizon!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dear first Lady of the Forest: See you went & bought one of those DAMN Cheepo electric chain saws huh!! LOL... with a manual oiler you need to give err a squirt ohh every soo often just keep your eye on the chain IM sure your going to notice that the oil will fly off the chain rather quickly.. thats why I like manual oilers none of that pushing oilers cause when you get into cuttin you sort of lose your thought on oiler your thinking about cuttin..ok next support for cuting if you were cuting large trees I would say that a saw buck is the safest way of suporting the logs,you know what one of those are right?? just 2x4s nailed into a x frame.. now most people don't take the time to build a set & just cut a end off the tree & use the mini logs as suport as there cuting.. yes your right that getting your chain into dirt is a Big NO NO..using your B&D WorkMate to hold branches is a good idea too.. Jamie IM sure glad you haven't bought a Backhoe or Dozer yet as the fun & questons you would have would make me Pee my pants..hehe ok Buddy I thinks your all set now if you have any further questons just fire away,you have a nice weekend as I am going to try to have one too...
Edit~ forgot to mention oil how much is needed? you can never ever have to much on a chain..Nuff said..<G>
ToolDoc
Edited 8/22/2003 9:45:23 AM ET by TOOLDOC
The Cheepo electric saw "Super Bee" by Wen, LOL! was already "in the inventory" -- got it at an auction a few years ago for maybe $10, but couldn't find a chain for it. Finally figured that one out.
"...can never have too much oil." Yeah??? Could have fooled me last night when I was cleaning all that gunk out of the saw! Yuck!
Dozers and backhoes: Nope, no plans there. I've spent a fair amount of time on tractors discing up horse arenas and pulling big field mowers, and got to drive a D8 Caterpillar around a rice field once, but I'd venture to guess those days are behind me. Although my sweetie is think I might be able to level our driveway when we re-gravel it this year. Maybe you can give me some tips for that!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yea Ole First Lady of the Forest: WOW you got a WEN I haven't seen a wen power tool in a dawgs age.. they were quite popular at one time not a really great tool but servicable,me thinks that good old B&D put the sprags to them over the years by sellin there B&D disposable power tools cheaper than everyone else..ha..Jamie IM Quite impressed you ran a CAT D8.now there is a awesome machine.when I was shoping for a crawler loader I was tempted to get a CAT 977 crawler loader but couldn't get the dealer to come down in price soo I bought the Allis Chalmers instead..maybe next time I can get a CAT..Soo your going to regrade your drive with stone huh.. thats a fun project..I recently redone all 4 miles of mine with shale.hoboy its a job but the loaders make it easy..are you renting a bobcat or some type of skid loader?or you using a tractor with a blade? or you going to be dumb & spread by hand?/ LOL.. no matter which route you go heres a tip..who ever hauls the stone for you get them to set the gate on the dump truck & spread the stone with the truck..its less hassle then to finsh grading it.. 0h by the way no charge for all these trade secrets that us worldly men have picked up over the years.. ya know we don't just share em with anybody but your one of my Best Buddies.. take care PAL.. ok I has to get back to my job catch ya later, Im doing some Electrical work..
ToolDoc
Edited 8/22/2003 3:51:21 PM ET by TOOLDOC
I have not one but two Wen power tools! A buffer/waxer also!
The D8 was a gas! An early sweetie in my college days -- his dad owned a rice farm, like 3,000 acres or something ridiculous like that. Darned wheels on the tractor were taller than me!
Actually, with the driveway, I was planning to have them spread the gravel with the truck, then do some raking to finish evening out. But the driveway needs to be leveled out some first -- it's pretty overdue for gravel and has that high spot in the middle. Darn thing is lined with alder, which shed zillions of leaves every year, most of which seem to end up turning into driveway hump.
ZAP!!<----////>>> careful!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: WOW 2 old classic wens,your quite the collector.. soo how you going to get the hump out of the middle of the driveway?? Let me guess pick & shovel..<G>..Comon rent a skid loader from a local rental place you will have tons of fun,might not even want to take it back..We have 1 here at work there soo neat to play with..oh yeah by the wayIm here in the office catchin up on puter stuff.yuck..LOL.. Got a cool webby site for ya to check out..
http://www.mscdirect.com its for MSC Industrial Supply Corp in N.Y. they have tons
tools both Hand & Power & lots of other really Neat stuff..You can request a catalog from them.. lots of good I need that stuff..:)
Edit~ Just wanted to add I bet a "good looking Gal" like yourself had lots of guys wanting to be your "Sweetie"....:)
ToolDoc
Chief TroubleMaker~Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
Edited 8/22/2003 7:26:12 PM ET by TOOLDOC
TD, first a chainsaw update, then a question:
CS update: All is well, have not hurt anything if you don't count reducing my extension cord from 12 gauge to 14 gauge (oops!). I think it was the ground wire that got "touched up."
Driveway: ToolDoc wrote "soo how you going to get the hump out of the middle of the driveway??" Thank you for asking! I need some advice. In the past when I've needed to level something, I just took the front-loader of whatever tractor I was using, tilted it edge-down, and dragged it backwards over the surface. Now...is this adviseable in this situation or do I need to get a tractor with a scraper on the bottom? Don't want to p_ss off the rental guys! [PS: is a "skip loader" the same thing as a "front-loader"?]forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dear First Lady of the Forest: You sliced into the cord..Ouch.. glad you didn't get a shock....thats the trouble with extension cords--> Damn things always get in the way..LOL....ok to answer your queston,well really it was my queston to you..yes you could use a skid loader to knock off the high middle.a skid loader is basicaly a front end loader ,same as a front loader on a tractor.. a blade mounted on a tractor should work too,but if I was doing it I would get the skid loader..there really not that hard to run..oh by the way there is no steering wheel on them like a tractor..they steer just like a bull dozer. ok IM headin back outside its sooooo nice here today Sunny only in the 70s no humidity yippie.. IM clearing some brush with my chain saws & brush cutter..
ToolDoc
Thank you sir! I'll be more careful for sure -- that little lapse of concentration cost me $9 for a new fitting for the cord. Paid extra to have the easy-attach type, save the frustration of monkeying around with twisting wires around screws. I just nicked the cord, but it cut some of the strands in the ground wire, so really should fix it.
Ah, yes, brush-clearing. That's on the schedule for Monday. Nick was trying to cut a path for us using a machete last week. Way too thick and gnarly for that to work. So I volunteered to rent a bladed brush-whacker and go out there with a can of gas and a gallon of Pepsi.
Think I'll go with the tractor -- just as soon have a steering wheel, keep things simple!
Glad your weather's good! [PS: you know my new 85-lb pup, the collie?? He's laying over there on the sofa having a dream -- running in his sleep. So cute!!]forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: Yup me thinks you would be better off with a regular tractor with a front end loader rather than a skid loader beings you have used a tractor all these years,althou the sikidsters are not hard to learn how to use..yup IM using a gas powered brush cutter to clean out this tangled jungle I own..weather is soo nice,that IM taking full advantage of it.. hoping it lasts over Labor Day weekend as our Fire Co. has the Labor Day Festival Fri~Sat~Sun, ill be busy there this coming week gettin ready..
ToolDoc
Driveway: "so how you going to get the hump out of the middle of the driveway??"
One answer is don't bother. The "hump" in the middle is due to a combination of soil compaction in the wheel path and sideways squeezing of the soil itself. How many years has it taken the hump to form? The easiest approach would be to spread the new gravel into the wheel ruts so the finished surface is the same height as the hump. Alternatively, using a small dozer (say a D3 or D4) or a track loader (with a 4-in-1 bucket) you could cut the hump down some, but the "problem" you are left with is: what to do with the dirt that was the hump? If you push it into the ruts, you probably don't save much when it comes to regravelling. BTW, I find skid steering, as on bob cats and dozers, easier to use than a steering wheel.
FOR SHAME! I can't see how you can justify mentioning Homelite in the same sentence with Stihl, Echo, and Husqvarna. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and considering it a typo. I have an old Echo that is priceless. Homelite is only a small step up from Poulan (IMO).
Few saws come with truly top quality chains and you cannot get such at a Wal-Mart or K-Mart. It is wise to fit even a new saw with a really good chain from a logging supplier or small engine shop who knows what's what. Then get some properly sized Pferd files to sharpen it with (these files will outlast say Nicholson's by five to one, and work much faster too).
Clay: if you would of taken the time to have read my entire postings you would of Noticed I stated I own a older homelite & IM sorry to inform you but yes it works Damn good for triming limbs from trees ,my main saws are all Stihls, & yes for thre light use that Jamie had in mind a Homelite would serve her purpose.. if she was lookingfor a HD saw, then your right a homelite is not the one to buy nor Poulan or the other bargain basement K Mart specials or Sears.. Chains.. Oregon makes good ones soo does Stihl.. as far as sharpening I have a regular chain saw loop grinder same as the pro sharpening shops use..can't beat it..
ToolDoc
Edited 8/29/2003 8:13:52 AM ET by TOOLDOC
I was maybe a little hard on you I meant it in a spirit of fun. I had a friend that ran a small engine shop who was a real technically sharp guy. He sold me some chain from an outfit in Canada that would easily cut four times the wood that Oregon chain does and also needed sharpening much less often. I can't remember the name now though. I have also found that I like the chisel tip chains much better than the standard type. I did get some weird chain that had two different kinds of teeth and mostly cut on both sides with little raking action too. It worked well but I was always more comfortable with the chisel tips. I at one time cut firewood out in Oregon for a living and we'd cut, split, haul, and deliver two and a half cords of Madrone per day. That stuff is really hard and makes a good test for a sharp chain. I have learned a lot about cutting since then but also gotten too pricey to make a living that way anymore. It was great fun though. The deer would watch us at work, and the woods smelled so fine and we were really in shape.
Clay: I wonder if that chain you mentioned from Canada might of had a Carbide Dust mixed in it?? I once had some chain from if I recall Zip Penn it was supose to be a special chain made with Carbide dust.. All I know is it to held a edge longer than reg chain, at the fire co we use carbide tiped chain on the saws,verry expensive to purchase & sharpen plus a PIA cause it has to sent out to be sharpened no local dealers have diamond wheels to sharpen it..
ToolDoc
Nope it was just superior steel. It did take a bit more to sharpen because it was harder but it stayed sharp longer so that the net effort was much less and of course much less effort while cutting too. I am sorry that I can't remember the brand. Maybe I can contact my friend and find out what it was. He and I were Firefighters together so I am familiar with the carbide chains too. I know that the chains were made in Canada and it seems like they were once owned by Ford of Canada. They were my favorite chains. I still have one on my big saw which I rarely use now.
Clay: if you find out the Brand from your friend do post it I would be interested to know the brand as IM always looking for a better brand chain.. thanks..
ToolDoc
I don't know how much experience I have compared to others, but I did work as a faller/sawyer in Oregon for 8 years.
1. The bumper strikes, or DAWGS as we called them shouldn't be used, as most people think, for leverage when bucking logs. This features is really for falling timber. Try holding a saw in a perfectly horizontal plane some time and you will understand why. A sawyer uses these to dig/dawg into the bark and provide support and balance for beginning his back cut.
When bucking, you should always buck as close to the tip of the bar as possible, usually leaving approximately 1.5 to 2 inches exposed on the other side of the log. This will give you the most control over your saw, and keep you from getting lazy and resting the saw on the log and letting it eat its way through, which will inevitably put your bar in the dirt.
2. Buy several chains. I prefer a chisel-bit file to sharpen my chains since it creates a more oblong gullet and more cutting surface. I do not like round-cut filing, or even the file you get by using a chain-sharpener. These always seem to make the saw work harder and dull quicker.
3. If you have to sacrifice power on a saw to bring the price down so you can buy Kevlar chaps, DO IT. I have seen some nasty cuts, and unlike knives where they slice the skin, chains saws remove entire sections of flesh. I once hit a spike in a tree and if I hadn't of been wearing my chaps, I would have been in serious disrepair!
4. Always wear boots when using your saw, not the kind you get at Fred Meyer, Wal-Mart, or the like, but something like Buffalos, Red Wings, or Whites. These are made of extra-thick hide and it would surprise you how long it takes to react to the fact that you are cutting through your boot when the unthinkable occurs. Gloves are another requirement because saws like to throw things at you and bare hands don't fare to well against chunks of wood or brush moving at that speed, not to mention thorns if you are clearing out the gooseberry bushes.
5. Go for a saw that will be powerful enough to do a variety of jobs, but not so big it is too wearisome to use. For home use I used to always recommend the Stihl 066, but it looks like it has been usurped by the 660M. If going with this, a mid-sized bar should suit you well for all types of cutting.
Last time I bought chain, I purchased an entire roll, but it was going for about $1 an inch. Shouldn't cost you much more to buy them cut to length.
Another thing to remember is to clean your bar after every use. You can buy a bar groove cleaner for under a buck (most saw-shops will give it to you for free). When you clean your bar, grease the tip. This is a common part of saw maintenance that gets overlooked, but you can easily overheat the tip and cause it to seize if you do not grease it regularly.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to e-mail, and I will give you a more specific answer.
Lazarus
Remeber, "Wisdom is the toughest of teachers! She gives the test first and the lesson after."
Edited 8/11/2003 11:54:13 AM ET by Lazarus
Jamie: Found this web site by Oregon who makes chain for chain saws lots of good safety advise..check it out..
http://www.oregonchain.com/safety.htm
Have a good one & Becarefull.. ToolDoc
Thanks everyone! for all the great info. There are many useful details above, and I've not had time to read it all, but will before buying or using a saw. Thanks TD for the safety link.
My Sweetie's saw is a Stihl, a 16" or 18" I believe. I would get it fixed and use it, but I think it's probably too heavy for me to safely use. I am going to get a "homeowner's" type saw, since my cutting will be restricted primarily to limbs less than 8" or 9" in diameter, and mostly to even smaller stuff. Will work on getting the Stihl put back in order for Nick to use on the big stuff.
For my personal, whimpy, use I'm headed toward a 16" electric saw and will use a 12 ga. extension cord. The cord will carry 15 amps over 100 feet I believe, and the saw uses 12 amps. I have a shorter 12 ga. I can use when closer to the house.
Thanks again!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
8" or 9" ain't that small. I wouldn't bother with the electric "toys". I think you'll be disatisfied with them pretty quickly. Even logs that size can need some decent power to cut them.
Stihl's or Huskies are the only way to go. Where you live, there must be a saw shop near by.
My wife bought the smallest saw Stihl made at the time, 'cause mine was too heavy for here to use. We call it the "lightweight chainsaw for ladies" ;)
It's the model 009L, fine for occasional use. But the 170 is newer and lighter, and has antivibration: http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS170.html
And, take your SO's chains in to get sharpened while you at it. Also ask him if the chain lubricator is working.
Well, 8" or 9" would be max. Most of the stuff would be even smaller than that. I know I'm not getting the best there is, but we've got 2 or 3 big, dead but good brand and expensive chainsaws sitting in the garage. I don't plan to buy another one for him to kill! I'll get one I can handle, use for only the appropriate cutting, and hide it in a locked cabinet so it's available when I need it, LOL! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG: Your Quite Welcome.. I knew I knew it.. You are going to go & buy one of those Damn K_Mart whimpy chain saws HUH?? and after we all Warned you. what am I going to do with you..just don't listen to us silly guys eh...hehe..
oh well just another day for me..my wife doesn't listen to me either..<G>
its just like I keep tellin ya Go Delta but do you listen..NOOOOO...
ToolDoc
This is how I look at chainsaw use.....
A dull blade is only sharp enough to cut off your leg.
Dull blades prevent you from using proper technique
Two rules to using my chainsaw......
1. Never, absolutely not ever, even if the cows come home, should the blade touch dirt. That makes the blade dull right right right now.
2. Use proper technique. See above note for that.
Mine is a stihl 025. The new version is the same saw with a different number (MS 250). Wouldn't think about owning a different saw. This one is great. Perfect balance between power and size for regular, around the wooded lot use. 18" bar.
At every other tank full of gas, I break for 5 minutes and sharpen the blade with the cheapy $10 file. If you do it regularly, the blade stays sharp enough to use proper technique.
Good luck with your decision
Rob Kress
Jamie, which ever saw you get, if you have a choice of bar length, get the shorter one so you're not tempted to stress the saw to it's max. i.e. save the bigger logs for Nick.
I'd have to ask what you want the saw to do. For cutting trees, fallen limbs, and other orchard debris into fire wood, I always have a $100 special 14" mcolloch, homelite, etc from wall mart or home depot (on sale) around and toss it when it stops running. My experience is that touchy expensive saws go about the same amount of time before they crap out and need repair. Always more than $100!!!
For cutting logs into lumber to slice or use as bowls, I use a new chain on my big (24" , better quality, and seldom used) saw or the cheap high hp electric chain saw.
When you're cutting firewood and clearing brush and trimming trees, just sharpen chains with a dremel or an air grinder and a 3/32 nds (or whatever size is right) stone on a mandrel and don't worry about perfection. Your cuts are only 18 - 24" long when cutting firewood and a little curve just doesn't matter. When the cut matters like on a big walnut log or a bowl blank, I use a new chain or pay an expert to sharpen it!
TM says: "For cutting trees, fallen limbs, and other orchard debris into fire wood..." Yep, with the emphasis on the fallen limbs and debris. The only trees I see in the offing are 2 small apple trees that were a mess when Nick bought this property, still are a mess, and do nothing but get in the way. Everything else is little stuff. Thanks for understanding! With such a small woodstove as I have, there's virtually no temptation to go after a 30-year-old alder or big maple, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
thanks to all who put their 2 cents in- i myself just became the proud owner of a very lightly used and lovingly cared for stihl 036 qs w/ 20" bar. (wealthy tool freak moving out of the country- only used it for "recreational" firewood- not to heat his house)
my usage will probably be much like jamie's, with maybe a few bigger logs from time to time- because we have some big trees on our lot that may eventually need work one way or another. at the moment we have a small (12" at the ground) poplar that the carpenter ants are killing from the inside out- before the wind drops it on our shop bldg, i'm thinking of making a preemptive strike. i've got a clear path onto a 25' wide driveway but my main concern is what the trunk might do due to the ant damage- you know how they curl the bark inward on one side like a stick of cinnamon? which way is it going to try to fall? the side that's eaten away is toward the bldg. i need it to fall about 25-30 degrees to the right of that. i've already figured out that i'm gonna have a rope as high up as possible pulling in the desired/required direction. also- cut it now in full leaf for a softer fall or wait until it's naked and less crap to clean up?
i'd appreciate any pointers.
m
Mitch, have a look at http://www.husqvarna.com.au/node235.asp
Ian
thanks ian- that site has a lot of useful info (i bookmarked it for future reference) but i still need advice on how to fell a medium size tree with a weak side aimed right where i definitely don't want it to fall. it's not quite the same problem as any of the many scenarios on the husky website. as opposed to a tree that's leaning the wrong way, etc., i'm concerned about what the trunk is going to do when i start cutting into the rotten section and it isn't well supported in the direction of the bldg. any other suggestions?
m
Mitch, first the disclaimer I'm no expert, however if you're determined do do this yourself treat the rotten section as though it is not there - i.e. it provides no support to the tree - then treat the rest as a "normal" tree that's leaning the wrong way.
Mitch,
My simple advice to someone in your situation is simple:, Don't do it, hire a professional. In fact I'd make this recommendation to anyone thinking of dropping a tree of any size, even if it looked simple. In your case I suspect a pro tree crew would disassemble the tree with a boom truck, a rotted tree is highly unpredictable.
I'll tell you where I'm coming from: I worked as a volunteer Emergency Medical technician for five years in Vermont. In that time I saw two deaths and several grisly injuries as a result of cutting down trees. Both deaths were to professional loggers. In the case of the second death, where I could reconstruct exactly what happened, while I sat with the body waiting for the State Police to arrive, the guy did everything right and he still got killed. He was well known as a cautious, careful worker, a young guy, an EMT from another town, he left a wife and two kids.
Years before I became an EMT, I was friends with the doctor in charge of emergency medicine at the hospital in Bennington, VT. At the time, he had three older sons, all in high or college. He forbade any of them to ever use a chainsaw on his farm property, it wasn't until I worked as an EMT that I truly understood why.
John W.
The reply to your request for info on chainsaws was very informative. However everyone forgot one important item. often when people are having problems cutting wood (even after sharpening the saw teeth) it is because the rakers(those little hooks between the teeth) have not been filed down. As the saw is used and sharpened the rakers become higher than the teeth. They occasionally need to be filed down. This is down with a flat file.Most sharpening guides have a space in the middle that lets you determine if this is the case. When I get a new chain this is one of the first things I do.
Thank you, Bill, excellent info! If a sharpening service works on the chain, would/should they check this automatically?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl;
sorry I have never used a sharpening service so I couldn't say if they would do this automatically. Ask them to check or just ask them to do it.
FG
Missed this post iniatially. I own Stihl and wouldn't go any other way. (Maybe Husky). I would not go below a 16" bar, but for what you described the use as; maybe a 12" would be suited for you.
The guys have this well covered. I would reccomend as others the self-lubed chain. I have a great service about 4 miles away that deals only with chain-saws, mowers an related outside equipment. They have their own motor techs an sharpeners on hand for the Stihl chain-saws, blowers, etc. and various mowers on hand. You have to go to the rear tech area after you make the purchase an you're shown the do's an don't's of cranking, operating, maintaining an safety. If you don't go back there an go through their procedure, they will hand your money back for your purchase an send you packing. It is a family run business and they care about you an your purchase. I have know the family all my life.
As these guys have it covered, I will add one of the main things to remember when using the CS is always, always good balance. Never lean over a log being cut. Balance, balance an more balance. I saw a friend cut the front of his thigh within an inch of the bone because he wasn't balanced. He fell forward an the chain pinched an kicked backward. Not a happy meeting of chain an flesh.
Nick is constantly killing his saw. Dull chain, in-sufficient lubrication of chain, not enough revs before making contact with the log torquing it to a stop. ( Don't over-rev the saw while it is not under load, but don't under-rev when it is ). There are a ton of things he could be doing. I have never seen this happen personally, so I guess you have chosen a ugggh, ugggh..... unique person. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Of your list in the last paragraph, I say probably "all of the above." He has a "unique" concept of what machines are supposed to endure when being used! [Could this be why Jamie has locks on all her tool storage cabs? Duh!]
And how, pray tell, do I talk to him about this without P___sing him off? He says he needs a bigger saw with more power. ROFLMAO!! I'm looking at the 5" peach tree loggettes with all those saw-burn marks on the ends and thinking to myself, What?!? His comatose Stihl is a 16" CS!!!
I decided yesterday, I'm going to take that saw in and get it fixed (assuming the motor's not dead), and learn how to use it if it's not too heavy for me. He's gone for 3 weeks this time, rather than two, so I have lots of time to get it fixed, get an extra chain maybe, learn how to sharpen it, etc. I'll get a cheap little (light) electric one to use when chopping small-diameter limbs into stove-length pieces.
If it is too heavy, then Plan B. BTW, A QUESTION: Those "inertia chain brake" thingies--do you have to keep that thing pulled back all the time you're cutting? Keeping your hand spread around the handle and the brake?? Ouch!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
OK, just back from the Small Engine Repair Shop out in the sticks. He's going to fix the lawnmower and the Stihl chainsaw. Chainsaw actually in OK shape -- super-clogged air filter and ancient spark plug, maybe glazed "needles" (???). Hopefully next Monday (day off) I'll be able to try it out.
I ventured into Sears the other night, unwisely I'm sure. Once again, they proved how clueless they are. I asked about the chain brake thingie. They said it's like a lawnmower -- as long as you're holding that plastic thing back against the handle, the chain runs, but if you let go (e.g., drop the saw) it stops. Totally different from what the repair shop told me today -- that you push it way forward (click!) to engage so that you can put the saw down without the chain running. Then pull it back to allow the chain to run.
Found a little 9" electric saw in my treasure trove of storage that'll work for little limb chopping up and pruning.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie
I agree with getting the current one fixed. They are small, simple engines an not that hard to work on (if qualified). Yep, spark plugs, filters and thingie's like that make a big difference in the way one runs. Take away a humans oxygen an heart-beat an they are a little puny also. ha..ha..
I would go with the repair shop answer on the chain break. Unless you find someone at Sears with large wood chips all over them an smell of 2 cycle oil, I wouldn't pay much attention. I will check the chain-break to-nite as it has been over a year since I had to use mine. It is a Stihl 16" which is all I need. You get up in the 20" + bars an this ole boy is bringing in the "pros". An those pros need to be bonded if you want your home-owners insurance to pay if a mis-hap occurs. This means an injury or a tree not obeying where it was told to fall. ha...
Seems to me that chain-break is set forward so if the saw kicks back it goes back also an dis-engages the chain to free-wheel. I don't remember the exact procedure though. TD will if he sees the post. I'm headed to locate my manual now.
Catch you ater while...
sarge..jt
FG
OK, if he has a Stihl the brake ineria is pushed forward only in an emergency, idle or to start. It cannot be left there but a few seconds as damage will result to the clutch an drive.
You put it in the rear position to allow the chain to rotate. You do not have to hold it down on a Stihl. Inertia from the kick-back will enact it. Remember that toward the nose of the bar is chain lock an rear is chain engaged.
I don't engage it if I were to sit the saw down momentarily. Failure to release it back and revving the saw will cause the clutch problem. If you are going to sit the saw down for severarl minutes, I would shut if off entrirely. No way to back into it accidentally with in-atttention to where it is sitting. As with most things, common sense RULES.
sarge..jt
Thanks, Sarge, for the extra info. Sweetie seems pleased that I took the saw in for fix-up. It's not like he has alot of idle time when he's home 2 weekends a month!
It'll be great to get the mower running too -- been renting this year. The fall that I had shoulder surgery I completely forgot I owned a mower, and let it sit outside all winter. Repair guy doesn't seem to worried about it though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I don't mean to be disagreeable (it comes natural) but, first of all a chain brake on a Stihl (and I believe most other brands) is not an inertia brake but is rather mechanical. When you get a kickback the saw will climb towards you which rotates your hand around the handle pushing your wrist into the brake lever snapping the brake on. All the brake is is a band around the outside of the clutch that contracts like an oil filter wrench stopping the rotation of the clutch which stops chain movement. Second, putting the brake on when setting the saw down or carrying it is a good idea to get in the habit of. This will not harm the saw in any way if the idle is set properly. If the chain moves while the saw is idleing then the idle speed is to high. If you watch a profesional tree surgeon you will see them apply the brake any time they are not cutting. This is a big safety factor. If while moveing around a stray limb were to catch the trigger and rev up the saw a nasty cut could result. That can't happen with the brake on, the saw will stall instead with no damage to the saw.
The Professional Termite
Edited 8/20/2003 8:13:34 AM ET by Trialnut
"When you get a kickback the saw will climb towards you which rotates your hand around the handle pushing your wrist into the brake lever snapping the brake on." Thank you, thank you! That's the detailed explanation I needed and didn't get, not from the Sears people (no big surprise) but also not from the repair-shop person.
The "inertia" tag for the brake is from the write-ups on the saw boxes. "They said it, not me!"
Thanks for chippin' in, TN.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Trailnut
The Stihl 029 manual agrees with what you say about the mechanical flip back intended to push the brake toward the nose an lock it. It also clearly states that there is some type of inertia brake built in also. I read both in my 029 manual last nite. The two statements are not found on the same page. The inertia part is in the Chain Brake section. The mechanical method you mentioned is with some operating instructions near the front.
I have no clue how the inertia brake is set up. I am aware of how the mechanics work. That's why I bought one with a brake on it. Most Huskies did not have a break about 4 years ago when I purchased my Stihl, as I looked at them also.
Have a good evening...
sarge..jt
Sarge
Now you have my curiousity up. Seeing as how I am going to my local Stihl dealer today anyway I am going to ask him about this inertia brake thingy. He is a good friend and easily the most knowledgable person you will find when it comes to saws and other small engines. One wall of his showroom has about 20 Bull Of The Woods awards from Stihl on it. Will let you know what I find out.
RichThe Professional Termite
Rich
I am puzzled about it also. As I stated, the inertia thing appeared in the maunal under Chain Brake around pg. 27 or so. The manual chain breaking is up under operating instructions. I though at first it was the same thing with a modified way of saying it. But back in the Chain Brake section it states that the inertia can be activated even if the hand was not on the handle behind the breaker bar if high kick-back occurred. An in another paragraph mentioned in addition to the Quick-Stop (which is what Stihl calls what you an I know as the manual brake), that the saw has an inertia brake that will activate with a high degree of kick-back even if the hand is not behind the brake bar on the handle??
I also, am lucky to have Sosobee Auto Parts which have evoled into 99% lawn mover, tractor, chain saw, blowers, etc. as the small auto parts places disappear with the bigger chains. Family run an I've known them all my life. These guys have 3 small engine specialist on hand back in the shop 6 days a week. They do it all an people from within a 45 mile radius go there. I will try to stop by next week as I'm on vacation an ask about it.
If you find out something first, please post it has my curiousity up also. It's always up when it comes to tools. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Sarge
I finally got the skinny on this inertia brake thingy. I was thinking that in order for it to truly be inertia activated there would have to be a weight involved. I thought that Stihl had somehow incorporated a weight in a cylinder into the brake. Turns out I was partly right. No weight in a cylinder but there is a weight. The handle itself is the weight. They have "tuned" the spring tension and position so any rapid movement of the saw will activate the brake. This was done so there would be the same protection from kickback when using the saw sideways, (as in felling), as there is when bucking.
Husky has done basically the same thing. In their video for training repairmen they show a way to test the brake. With the saw shut off hold it parallel to the ground just a little less than the bar length from the ground. Let go of the front handle. The saw will pivot rapidly in your other hand and when the tip hits the ground the brake should engage. When the saw stops the handle (weight) wants to keep going thus engaging the brake. The repair tech I talked with said he tried this with several new Huskies and none of them engaged the brake. I still think the best kickback protection is the operator. Be aware of where the tip is at all times so it does not inadvertently hit something. Any new or inexperienced operator should get some proper training before heading for the woods.
RichThe Professional Termite
Rich
Thanks, as I was going by tommorrow to inquire at Sosobee. I knew there had to be somthing similar to the way your seat-belt shoulder harness on your car works. Inertia, as you can pull it forward easily; but in sudden impact it locks out. Well, you hope it locks out. ha..ha..
I agree with the operator being the most important link in safety. Same with power tools. All the safety gadgets in the world will not compensate for stupidity in the hands of the be-holder.
An now we know. I never was not aware of the inertia thing until FG mentioned it. I just happened to catch it in the manual when I was brushing up on the manual barke before I posted.
Thanks for the foot-work...
sarge..jt
Dear First Lady of the Forest: sounds like you might need a crash course in Chain Saw operations 101.. check out the Stihl web site they have lots of info on line. http://www.stihl.com click on the know how section.. I see SARGE was able to come up with the correct answer about the brake.. oh by the way the needles you handy dandy small engine repair guy was talking about~ are located in the carberator they get gummed up.. no biggie.. ok see ya IM off to the crib it was another Hot & long day at work..
ToolDoc
HI, TD! Thanks for the link. I promise I'll read up before operating. Just remembered today, I have a magazine around from years ago that had a several-page layout on safe chainsaw operation. Just have to dig it out of the archives. 'Tween that and the Stihl site, should be well-educated.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I spent some time yesterday cutting up small limbs, cleaning up debris from the various alders and apple trees. Used the 9" electric saw getting used to the physics of it all. Those "bucking teeth" seem to stablize the saw with respect to the wood and prevent chattering. I didn't use them as a pivot point really, just a steady-point. Am very careful not to get anywhere near having the point of the saw in the wood -- have no plans to experience kickback -- and that "Balance Balance Balance" echos mentally.
There's a dead tree in the back woods that's all of 4" or so in diameter. I'm going to cut it down today just for fun. This saw is also very handy for cuttiing up pallets with (avoiding nails of course). I see a great deal of free firewood in the making. Nick has 15 acres in another property, with many very small alders on it that need to be cleared out anyway, so I can select a few of those once the gas-powered saw is back from the doc.
I saw the CS chaps in the new Northern catalog last night, so those are definitely on the list.
Thank y'all for the tips. I'll be watching for more information on the brake technical info.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Here is the scoop on the brake system on the saws.
1. They are called inertia brakes because inertia from the force of a kickback has the possibility of engaging them.
2. They also can be manually engaged.
3. The front handguard is the lever which is used to engage the brake manually, and disengage it after manual or inertial engagement.
4. In manuals, it most likely does have them listed in separate areas. Many people would probably get confused if it were only referred to as an inertia brake, so in the simplified area for set-up and use, it would make sense, to me at least, to be referred to simply as "the brake" or "hand brake".
As for your comment about "chattering" while you were bucking, if the saw is bouncing during a cut, you need to take the rakers down a touch. Even when a chain is brand new, I always take a couple of passes with a flat file to bring the rakers down a touch. Most sharpening jigs will not allow you to take the rakers down to an efficient level simply to slow the cut of the saw so someone can't blame the producer of the jig for injury caused by too aggressive of a raker height.
As a quick rule of thumb, never file a raker down more than the width of a dime from the topmost cutting surface on a tooth.
Here are a couple more tips:
If you are cutting branches from trees. always start your cut from the bottom to put a kerf in that portion of the limb, then bring your saw to the top and cut down to the kerf. This will keep the chain from getting pinched at the end of a cut.
When felling small diameter trees, don't put face cuts into them if they are under 4" in diameter, simply place a kerf cut at a small angle in the face , and then cut to the kerf, staying slightly above the plane of the kerf's end.
I have seen more people injured while cutting down "small" trees than I have when cutting down large trees. I had the occasion to deal with two broken necks during my tenure as a logger, and both were from trees 6" in diameter and smaller (approx. 4" on the other).
I also do not advise making any cut where your chainsaw's body is above your chest. People are just not as strong as they normally are when in this position, and because of it more potential for kickback and the like since people are working beyond their limit.
LazarusRemember, "Wisdom is the toughest of teachers! She gives the test first and the lesson after."
Edited 8/21/2003 3:57:10 PM ET by Lazarus
Thanks for the additional details Laz. The mystery of the brake is fully cleared up!
Pleased to say that I found the magazine from years ago -- it's an October 1998 edition of Workbench, and it has an article "Felling a Tree Safely" and "Buying a Chainsaw." The safety article has info on gauging the tree's height, planning escape routes, safe clearance and how to make the cuts, both when felling the tree and when cutting it up.
Also shows saw and chain anatomy. One thing that's missing from my little electric saw is a "chain catcher" to stop backlash from a broke or derailed chain. On the Makita pictured, it's just a flat bar that extends underneath the chain up close to the drive. Wonder if I could make one?
The "Buying" article has all the brands noted here and one more: Shindaiwa from Japan. Am glad that buying has proved to not be necessary!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
One frequent maintenance thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is:
carry a good 1 1/2" or 2" paint brush in your case and brush the sawdust off the filter every time you gas up. At least this works on the Stihl 026 when you remove the air filter cover. Amazing how much dust can collect after just one tank. The saw will run much better as the correct fuel-air mixture depends in part on a clean filter.
Some thing to ponder...
You push the handle foreward and the chain brake will engage. You risk burning up the clutch if the idle is even just a little bit too fast. At correct idle the chain should not move.
BTW over in building hackers forum (FHB) there was a surburb chain saw thread about month or little more ago.
Good luck on the searh function.
Try "Smoking Chainsaw" (JULY 27)
As a sharpener I agree that you occasionally have to file down the rakers, but you should never do this with a new saw chain. They come just like a saw blade. The raker is supposed to be below the the cutting teeth. A competent sharpener will check this each time he sharpens.
Avoid sand!!!!!!!!Keep the chain lubricated!!!!!Follow every safety precaution. And, do not try to cut with a dull chain. You will work far too hard. When the chips start getting smaller and smaller until they are finally sawdust you have gone too far. The burning will take the life out of the the chain. You should own two or three chains--and if possible buy them from the sharpening shop you do business with as they will want you to have a good product which will do the job and be sharpenable over a longer period of time than the junk that is so prevalent.
I own a sharpening shop/ Too often the chains come in blue or black from overheat, and the sporcket has more sand than lubricant. If you hit the sand STOP!!! It may be too late, but you will need to clean out the sprockets and gears or you will only make it worse.
Harry
Harry, thanks for posting. I'm going to take advantage, and ask you a question. When at the Big Box store the other night, I saw an applicator that's for lubing the tip of certain types of chain saw bars. It's like a bottle with a conical metal tip on it, and the oil is pressurized or something. What type of bar is this designed for? Both of the saws I have are several years old. I'm not seeing any application for that with these saws, but want to make sure I'm not missing something. [did that make any sense?]forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I think what you saw was a grease pump for lubing the roller on the tips of the bars. Most bars have an internal sprocket roller that revolves with the chain to cut the friction at the tip giving you both longer bar and chain life. There are small holes in the flat side of the bars near the tip into which you put the tip of the grease gun and squeeze the grease into the interior of the bar. This is often overlooked or deliberately omitted but it is important to do once in a while. Whenever you sharpen or change the chain for instance.
Thanks for the info Clay. Would I be able to actually see this mechanism, or is it pretty much hidden from view? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It is mostly hidden but there will be a couple of rivets that hold it in place and you can see the little teeth that engage the chain when the saw is NOT running if you look closely. If you have one of the cheaper bars that does not have a roller tip it will just be solid metal with no hole and no rivets on the tip. The roller tips are worthwhile as they increase the life of the chain and make the chain run cooler and help to make the most of the saws power. If you don't have a roller tip bar I would suggest upgrading with a new one. The cost will be worthwhile. The plain bars often produce enough friction to make the chain heat up and expand so that it jumps the track and comes off the bar, which is a real nuisance.
Thanks, Clay, I'll take a look at the Stihl when I get it back from the repair guy.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Clay is right. It is important to keep everything lubricated. It is more importnt to keep sand and other foreign objects out.
Hope this is a little better...
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=33087.1
Lots of good comments - to which I'll add just one. Don't use a chainsaw alone.
"Don't use a chainsaw alone." Oooooh, I'm in trouble there. No one around to watch but the dog and cats. When Nick's home, he's going to be doing the CSing. I like to think the tasks I'm doing are small enough, and I'm careful enough, not to hurt myself in one of those truly ugly ways that require another person to save me. When I lose concentration, I stop. (That cord accident was from focusing on not cutting the foot, but forgetting about the cord, LOL! Stopped right after that.)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You've already got plenty of good advice, but I'll throw my two cents in. Forget the electric - not enough power. As for brands, I'm still using the Stihl that my father bought 20 years ago (and we used to cut and split enough wood to heat our house through the winter). Clean it after every use, and a Stihl will last forever. Sharpen the chain often.
Thanks for chipping in (it's never too late!). Sounds like Stihl is a winner -- that's probably why the one we have has stood up to the abuse it's dealt! I get that one back from the repair guy today, and pick up two newly sharpened chains.
The little electric (9" Wen) that I resurrected with a new chain is actually good for me to use on limbs and small trees. I know it's not much, but it works for the small stuff and is easy for me to tote around.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
First Lady of the Forest: Damn we keep forgeting that your such a "Delicate Fragile thing of Beauty" & not a Big Burly HeMan like us...LOL.
ToolDoc
ROFL!! I'm certainly feeling my age tonight, if not my physical limitations!!! I spent a grand total of 2 hours with one of those gas-powered brush cutters, with like a 40-tooth blade on it, cutting through brambles on Nick's property. Ouch!! My poor shoulder (the post-surgery one), not to mention the arms and neck! The blade on the darned thing smoked every time I cut through something more than 3/8" thick -- took a look at it, and man was it gunky. Next time I rent one, I think I'll bring my own blade.
Actually thinking about buying one of those brushcutters -- it's $38+tax per day to rent one, and I think a good one (Echo?) costs about $200, maybe $249. Around here, I'm sure it'll be used every year!
Don't get the Stihl saw back until next week -- there was some kind of anti-vibration thing missing on it, so he ordered the part. It'll be needed the next trip to the property -- lots of fallen-down logs that interfere with bushwhacking a path.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
Echo brush cutter? You might want to look at the Stihl brush-cutter, leaf blower and weed-wacker. They are excellent also. The leaf blower is great for blowing the saw-dust out of the shop. Been doing it for years. (Actually the Echo leaf blower an brush cutter are excellent also)
Hope the aches an pains go away. BTW, is Nick's last name Bunyan. I'm beginning to wonder with all this forest clearing you're taking on.
Back to the work-bench top. This ole boy is kicking my old, but enthusiastic butt.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Hiya Sarge. Didn't see any Stihl brushcutters at the nearest Big Box, will have to check at the other one or the machine shop that sharpened those chains.
So...all those interchangeable doo-dads work? I wasn't sure when I first saw them, but then figured if Deere, Echo and other better names were making them, they might be OK.
Can't wait to see pics of the workbench!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dear first Lady of the Forest : yep those gas powered brush cutters sure do give ya a work out,I know when I use mine I can feel it in my lower back & arms..your right about havin a sharp blade on them it makes the job go better with a sharp blade,I take mine off & sharpen on my 1x42 belt grinder,,makes a big diffrence..I have a Stihl model..
ToolDoc
Sharpening on the 1x belt sander...how you do dat?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: the table tilts to what ever angle is needed.. I touch up my steel saw blades all the time..just clean out the gullets & touch up the faces & presto you ready to cut another 10000 bdft.LOl.. I have a JET 1x42 Belt sander/grinder imange that! I find it Quite handy for touch up sharpening on a whole ton of tools.. When ever the Brush cutter blade get dull I just touch it up like a Reg Comb saw blade.. i also bought at a auction afew years ago a Foley/Belsaw sharpall it sharpens chisels.plane Irons,saw blades, well just about anything really it has become Quite usefull also..About only thing I send outthese days are the Jointer knives & my carbide saw blades all the rest get sharpened right here..
ToolDoc
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