Replies

1. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 21, 2008 03:40am | #1

   hide glue will soften with vinegar

2. 
   ring | Aug 21, 2008 08:09am | #2

   If it's hide glue (unless the repair is modern) then heat will open the glue joint. Steam is best but a heat gun works well also. Once it's open, use warm vinegar to wash away the glue residue.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   Vintagedoubles | Aug 21, 2008 06:23pm | #3

   Thank you, I have used heat to get them apart, it usually helps despite never knowing what glue was used. I will try vinegar to soften the old glue. The main issue is I never know when or with what glue the repair was done. I am doing two English double rifles now that imported from India and Have quite alot of old glue on one that I have been able to re break apart.
   Again thanks!
   Kirby

3. 
   SawdustSteve | Aug 22, 2008 01:35am | #4

   If you dampen hide Glue with water, it will become sticky (gluey) almost immediately. If you dampen any of the white or yellow (modern) glues, they will not become sticky. That, in a nutshell, is the simplest test for hide glue.

   I've also been told (on good authority) that denatured alcohol will crystalize (break down) hide glue when things have to be disassembled.
   SawdustSteve

1. 
   Vintagedoubles | Aug 23, 2008 02:25am | #5

   Anyone have any thoughts on how to identify and find the proper solvent to remove "modern" glues?
   Thank your for the replies!
   K

1. 
   joinerswork | Aug 23, 2008 06:41pm | #6

   Vintage,

   Hide glue is caramel colored.  If it is old, it often has a granulated appearance, something like brown sugar.  Solvent is steam, hot water, or as has been suggested, vinegar.

   Old fashioned casein glue dries milky-white. I find it is easy enough to pick or chip it off; usually with time, it has started to let go on its own.

   More modern white glue (Elmer's glue-all) dries to a clear film.  Hot water works here too. You can tell the difference between white glue and epoxy, which is also clear, if the glue turns white on application of water, it is Elmers. Yellow glues (titebond, carpenter's glue) are more water resistant, but a soak in hot water will usually soften them enough to let them be peeled/picked away.

   Epoxy is a tough one to soften.  Stronger solvents like acetone or MEK will do the trick but will do a number on any finish it touches, and I avoid them also for their fumes.

   Often repeated applications hot water will do the trick, for if the repair is very old, it will have remnamts of one of the old glues under the newer super glues, hot melts, or epoxy, which will allow the new glue to come away with the old.

   I bet many of the breaks you see are tough to glue because of contamination of the break with oil.  So you might not have the choice of staying away from stronger solvents, from a need to flush the oil out of the wood before anything will stick to it.

   Bronze bristle brushes (toothbrush shape) and dental picks are very helpful in getting old glue to let go, without destroying the wood surface underneath.

   Ray

1. 
   Vintagedoubles | Aug 23, 2008 09:31pm | #7

   Great response, thank you. I have used all of the above methods and it seems like it always gets down to scrape, scrub, dental pick, and even remove some of the old wood surface if I have to so I can get to clean wood. Oil soaked wood is a real problem as the metal on these 100+ year old guns was liberally applied with oil on a regular basis and would get into the wood, I see this especially on English double rifle and shotguns for some reason. In sunlight even with a new finish they will bleed oil which sometimes seems never ending. Gluing a crack in this kind of wood has been a real problem. I have tried soaking the stock for several days in Acetone but I find this only does a mediocre job. A fellow restorer in California swears by a cleaning product you spray on called "Greased Lightening" but I have not been able find any locally yet so may have to order some and try it. I import these English doubles from India so I see these problems over and over again thus the search for ever better restoration methods. I really appreciate the interest and sharing.K

1. 
   RW | Aug 24, 2008 02:51am | #8

   All the above good. Only things I haven't seen mentioned is that vinegar will also soften yellow glues, often enough to facilitate removing them.

   And whiting you can probably still find at a paint store like Sherwin. Having worked on gun stocks as well, I know absolutely what you're talking about. They come in little tubs so get a couple. Stick the offending end to be glued in a coffee can and fill it with whiting. Cover it just to keep other debris out and leave it alone for a few days. It will literally suck the oils out of the stock, enough that you can glue the thing back together. That one I learned from a real old timer, but it works pretty slick. Real trucks dont have sparkplugs

2. 
   Vintagedoubles | Aug 24, 2008 07:00pm | #9

   "Whiting"
   Interesting. I would like to try it. Any idea exactly what it is?
   I heard what perhaps is a restorers urban legend but to expose the wood to a black light and wood will weep the oil out..
   Ever hear of this?
   Thanks!
   K

3. 
   RW | Aug 24, 2008 08:00pm | #10

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

    Real trucks dont have sparkplugs

4. 
   joinerswork | Aug 24, 2008 08:04pm | #11

   Vintage,

   Whiting is available at paint stores, maybe artist suply stores, it is finely ground chalk.  Used by painters to thicken putty after it is tinted, as a component of gesso for sealing artist canvas and as prep for gilding.The oil from gunstocks remedy I read (from an old NRA gunsmithing guide) suggested saturating the wood with lacquer thinner first, to thin the oil, then packing whiting around the wet wood.  Repeat as necessary.

   Ray.

5. 
   WillGeorge | Aug 25, 2008 10:38pm | #12

   Whiting? Are you talking about whiting chalk? I would assume but my first thought of 'whiting' was that white lead for old oil based paints! Grandpa called it whiting.. Sorry. Just a question..

   As a side note.. HOT water and white Vinegar took the glue off of a mistake (new opportunity?) I made a few weeks ago. Titebond II.. I was able to break the bond and did not experience any damage to the wood (as far as it as a whole) I have no idea about long term affect on the wood.