Hi,
Finally had time to sit down and read a few posts. I went out to exchange the Skil saw for a Dewalt model #313. Read the manual before checking it over. When I took it out of the box I noticed that it was not set at the 90º mark. So I went to fetch a screwdriver to unscrew the screw so I could adjust the shoe. The shoe would not budge. I consulted the manual again just to make sure I was unscrewing the right screw. For some reason the darn thing will not move. IT refused to move into the 90º position. Has this happened to anyone else? Now I’ll have to go to the hardware store and see if anyone there can make the adjustment for me. I might just exchange the Dewalt and wait till Christmas to purchase a Delta 14 inch bandsaw. Better to Put the $200 dollars I would have spent on the jigsaw towards the purchase of a bandsaw. Just think I’d get more use out of the bandsaw.
So far I have a 10″ contractor’s saw, Dewalt drill, and Delta 10″compound miter saw plus a Portor Cable router. I think the Bandsaw will be my next BIG purchase. I’ve heard some people say the bandsaw is the most important tool in their woodworking shop. Wonder if the table saw is more useful than the bandsaw. ( bandsaw vs table saw)
Last question I promise……. How many people here would use a jigsaw to cut out pieces for a Adirondack chair? Or would you prefer to use a bandsaw. Which is the better tool for the job? I bet it would take no time at all on the bandsaw.
Replies
Wanda,
DeWalt = King of the refurbished tool sale!
I know they're popular tools, but for the life of me I can't figure out why????? Sorry to hear about your bad luck, but sorry, I would have bet on it.
Don
Wanda, we tried to give you good advice on your other thread (Jigsaws, blades). Don't you feel funny that you ignored it, bought the 313 anyway, and now are telling us it doesn't work well?
Splintie,
I did not ignore the many posts on jigsaws and blades. I have read over each post very carefully. Anyways I took the Dewalt jigsaw into the hardware store today to have someone check it out. I didn't even get a chance to do any actual cutting with the saw. The man at the store said the best thing to do was return the darn thing. He looked it over and couldn't budge the shoe either. Turns out it must have been damaged in shipping. The hole mechanism was out of kilter. Guess if I can't afford the Bosch I won't bother purchasing a jigsaw. No point in buying an inferior jigsaw.
After careful diliberation I think sinking $275 Canadian dollars plus taxes (that's equal to approx. $400.00 US dollars) into a jigsaw isn't such a good idea especially when I plan to add a Delta 14" 3/4 inch bandsaw to my workshop. Yes, everyone says the bosch jigsaw is the best I'm not questioning that, but after waying the pros and cons of bandsaw vs jigsaw.... I'm better off with a bandsaw in the long run. I doubt I'll be needing to cut tile, metal, leather, plastic or plywood all that often. What I need is a very good quality woodcutting tool. From all the reading I've done so far the bandsaw is the best tool for small woodworking projects, such as cabinets, bookshelves, chairs, tables. ect. I will put off building my Adirondack chair until I buy a bandsaw. Let's face it for a tool that you won't use all that often. $400 US dollars is a bit pricy.
thanks for all your input.
wanda....East coast Canada
Wanda,
It sounds like you are rapidly getting seduced by the "If I had a certain (power) tool I would be a better craftsman" mentality.
You are convinced that you "NEED" a bandsaw. This is a very non-productive path to take so early in your woodworking experience.
Sure, a shop full of big power tools is nice. But if you really want to, you could make that Adirondak chair using a hand coping saw! Others have.
You don't have to spend big bucks on a jigsaw. You can get a Bosch saw through Amazon.com for US $149. And you could do an awful lot of work with a lesser saw (lower price, not as refined) before deciding that you need to equip your shop with a bandsaw.
I worked for 3 years without a shop and used a cheap Craftsman "Sabersaw" until it wore out to make a lot of garden furniture. That saw cost me $29! No one is ever going to look at that furniture and say, "Oh, inferior stuff. You didn't use a bandsaw." Those projects went very well, I'm pleased with them, and they leave nothing to be desired just because I didn't have a complete workshop at the time. They would not be improved by using a bandsaw.
Settle down. Get some decent, but low-priced equipment and get some experience under your (tool)belt.
Rich
Edited 8/26/2002 12:53:39 PM ET by Rich Rose
Rich,
Great advice. Because a lot of my work is basically production work, I've had to opt for tools and machines at the expense of the basics. In the long run, I doubt that my skills have been improved.
Wanda, seriously look into the Freud jig saw. By far better then a dewalt jig saw and in your price range.
Don
Hello Rich,
I want to assure you that I am not one of those individuals that think machines are going to make me a better craftsperson. I would love to know how to build furniture using hand tools. After reading the latest Finewoodworking mag I'm dying to practice cutting dovetails. I have a dovetail saw which has been in my toolbox for 2 years so I figure it's about time I started using it. I could learn to do it using my router but I'd prefer to do it the old fashion way. The router is such a noisey beast. I wouldn't bother wasting money buying one of those expensive dovetail jigs. Mastering joinery techniques is essential. I have yet to add a chisel to my tool collection. I'll have to put that on my list of tools to buy. Just wish there were more woodworking classes here where I live. Unfortunately there are only 2 offered at the local college. I've taken the basic woodworking course and the only other one they offer is the finewoodworking course. Cost me $260 canadian dollars but was well worth it. Most of what I've learned has come from talking to other woodworkers and through books. My dream would be to go to one of the woodworking schools in Maine for a week. :)
Believe me I'm not hung up on power tools I just want to buy what I need to get the job done. You're probably right I don't need to rush out to the tool shop to buy an expensive bandsaw . Like you said I should get a few projects under my "tool belt first. That's pretty sound advice. It's difficult for a beginner like me to know what I need in the way of tools.
Wanda......eastern Canada
Wanda.
LISTEN TO ME!!
Are you listening?
TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER!!!!!!
Go out to your garage, workshop, backyard, whatever. MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF WOOD!!!!
ANYTHING. ANYTHING AT ALL.
Make a box, Make a tool box. Make a bird house. Make a rack to hold some tools. Do not agonize over it. JUST DO IT!!!!!
Do not stop until it is done. Don't worry about winning any awards. Just get it done. Don't worry about how useful it will be. Don't analyze it. Don't think about how more instruction or education will make you a better woodworker!
DO IT!!!!!!
DO NOT TURN YOUR COMPUTER ON AGAIN UNTIL YOU HAVE FINISHED!!!!
Don't post a message here again until you're finished. You'll thank me!
Rich
Pssst, Rich -- it's not nice to yell. Please. Oh! Is that your tongue in your cheek. Ahhhh, got it.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/27/2002 12:33:44 AM ET by forest_girl
I would guess it's Rich's version of tough love in woodworking!
I woulda yelled louder, but I'm on a Mac and the C.H.E.A.P. A.S.S. software that runs this forum dosen't give Mac operators access to the font size and typeface selection that shows up on a Windoze machine.
Tough love! Yeah. Stop yakkin' and start cuttin' chile.
I got 3 professional level degrees, so I'm a huge advocate of education. But they ain't no experience like gettin' goin' an makin' sawdust. No 'mount o' book learnin' an college courses gonna make a bit of differments, lest ya start doin'.
Rich
I have yet to add a chisel to my tool collection
Uhm, Wanda, I guess no one has told you. There is this test they give you before they let you buy a bandsaw. You have to show proficency with basic handtools and have produced at least three wheelbarrow loads of sawdust and two completed projects. They say that doing it that way prevents the market from being flooded with tools that people have bought and never get around to using because they discovered they didn't actually like woodworking. ;o)
I will put off building my Adirondack chair until I buy a bandsaw. Let's face it for a tool that you won't use all that often. $400 US dollars is a bit pricy.
I get that you read the posts, but then you bought the ONLY brand that was recommended against...this still confuses me, but i'm glad you got your money back. My DeWalt cracked its aluminum casting right near a bolt hole while i was cutting 5/16" underlayment with it, about the only job it could handle.
I don't get your conversion factor from Canadian to US $'s--the US economy must be worse off than i thought!--but at any rate, my Bosch was 154 US$ last week at Home Depot, not the $400 you cited.
I got my business off the ground (not a hobby, but my sole support) about 1981 with nothing but a Shopsmith and a planer and i made entire desks with those tools, so i'm not the sort to tell you you need a shop full of power tools to start woodworking, but i will tell you that replacing those tools with far better ones has been joy indescribable. If Adirondack chairs are your next project, the jigsaw would do a great job of rough cutting the parts and you could even make templates and use your router for multiples if you wish to do a production run. I'm afraid if you get a cheap bandsaw instead of a good jigsaw, you would be terribly frustrated at not being able to use it to do things a good bandsaw can do, like resaw timber. I use my jigsaw quite a lot bec i make sculpture bases and i often can't take the 8/4 12" wide piece of walnut to the bandsaw, but have to rough out the blank to manageable size first. I think you might run into this cutting chair parts out of boards as well.
I can see this calls for some serious tool-belt tightening, Wanda. No coffee, no microbrew, no Bob Mackey gowns for the next two months and you'll be able to get both the jigsaw and the bandsaw! Good luck with whatever you do.
Colleen
Hi Colleen,
Sorry about the confusion with regards to the conversion. $154.00 US dollars = $279.07 Canadian dollars. When you put taxex on top of that you're over $300 dollars.
Shopsmith......I know I've read about that in one of the woodworking mags. Is that one of those expensive all in one Power tools. (planer, jointer, Lathe combination?) How necessary is a planer? Is it best to mill wood yourself or pay an extra fee and have the people at the lumber yard do it for you? Isn't the planer, table saw and jointer necessary to mill wood. How else do you get it perfectly square on both faces and both edges to the thickness you want? Take forever with handtools wouldn't it? Even the simplest projects require the pieces to be jointed. God! Maybe a jointer is the 2nd most valuable tool in the workshop. LOL
What tools do you consider absolutely necessary in the average do-it-yourselfer workshop?????? Or should I say what can you live without.
I've got to stop obsessing over powertools and get myself back into the woodshop......start making some saw dust! :)
Wanda
Wanda,
Even better idea.
Get this jigsaw:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000302UW/qid=1030415960/sr=1-16/ref=sr_1_16/104-8099187-4501568?s=hi
Get a cross cut handsaw, a tri-square and a straightedge. Lay out your Adirondak chair. Cut it out. Put it together. Sit in it. Grin.
THEN, get back here!
Rich
Hi Rich Rose,
Hey! what kind of a recommendation is that? LOL You're advising me to buy a Black&Decker jigsaw. OMG ! Haven't you been reading the latest posts. I've already been warned not to buy cheap tools. I've been advised to fork over the extra cash and go for the Bosch or Freud jigsaw. They told me under no circumstances to buy a Dewalt jigsaw. Now that I know that Dewalt owns Black& Decker why would I buy Dewalt's lower end jigsaw when their higher one isn't worth touching?????? Good grief!
Well I've done my homework. I've checked out various tool sites. I've read the customer reviews on Amazon.com as advised. The Bosch and Freud seem to be the top picks.
I have decided to put off buying an expensive bandsaw for the time being until I get more projects under my "tool belt". :) So for now I am once again considering buying a jigsaw. I've got to have something to cut my Adirondack chair with.
Here's my latest dilema.....I went to Amazon.com only to find out that Amazon.com only sells the product within the USA. :( The Freud FJ85 6 amp jigsaw was going for $109.99 US That's a great price. Almost too good to be true. They have the list price as $229.90 and it's now on sale for $109.99 online. So I'm seriously considering ordering online.
Does anybody know an online tool site that sells Freud jigsaws and also ships to Canada??????????
I know Freud router bits, forster bits and tablesaw blades are sold at my local hardware store but they don't carry any of the Freud powertools.
Rich Rose I have a webpage I'd like you to check out. It pictures a White oak Adirondack chair which I'm planning on building. Not the best plans for a beginner but I think I can manage. I've already enlarged the plans using a grid and I have all the templates cut out already. I even have the wood in the basement. . Do you think this project is too advanced for a beginner like myself? I'm sure there are easier plans for building an Adirondack chair.
I'm going to have to look up that website for you and post it for you later
Wendy
WANDA:
FG is once again correct on see if locals can call Freud and get it sent to them. Also, if you find a source U.S. and decide to have them ship to you---have them mail it! If they UPS you will pay U.S. UPS to canadian border then UPS Canada will charge you additional charge to expedite through Canadian customs. When they show up at your door, you pay the additional.
If you go Postal, you will pay all customs charges at your Postal Center. It's cheaper to mail it. Make sure they understand that letter-number-letter number Postal code you have. Have the company call back address to you.
Soons like your catching on with all this advice. I got a feeling you're going to do just fine. Just be patient. Remember, they didn't build Montreal in a day!!!
Good luck and have a great day..
Sarge..john t
Here's the info for Freud:
email: [email protected]
phone: (800) 334-4107forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Forest Girl,
Thanks for the info... I did some phone calling and searching of my own today and found out that there's a dealer in town that sells Freud jigsaws. I'm going to buy the 6 amp FJ85. It's a middle of the range jigsaw. Let's just say the price is right! :)
Try this URL This should take you to the right webpage.
http://visitors.handymanclub.com/handy_mag/images/article_05/05WORBfull.gif
Hope that's the right one. You should see a picture of a white oak adirondack chair. Let me know if that one looks like the one you mentioned. It has the wide arms. Too bad you can't send attachments to this forum.
I'm off to watch the US Open Tennis...
Wanda
> .... I've got to have something to cut my Adirondack chair with.
A HAND SAW! For the price of any kind of saber saw, you can buy a really, REALLY good back saw, or better yet, one of those Japanese saws that cuts on the pull stroke. From what I know about Adirondak chairs (only seen pictures), the pieces can be cut out with a hand saw quite easily.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Wanda,
WHAT ALREADY?!!!
My recommendation about the saw was to get you off dead center and start doing something. It's not a cheap saw. It's an inexpensive saw that has all the capabilities you need right now and will still be useful to you many, many years down the road. Spend at least a few months getting good with that saw and a few (very few) other hand tools.
You are agonizing over legacy-quality equipment, with a focus on specific tools to accomplish a particular building project beyond any reasonable degree before you have even the most rudimentary experience making small pieces of wood from bigger ones.
I don't want to look at a website about Adirondak chairs to further help you proscratinate, obsess and and wring your hands. You are paralyzed with indecision. Most people who have a desire to make things have to be restrained from plunging ahead and using the plated silver butter knives out of their wife's silverware drawer because they haven't gotten a saw yet, but can't wait to start on that Chippendale project that they decided on 10 minutes ago.
Gnaw the wood with your teeth if you have to, go buy a hacksaw as suggested (I think it's a great idea). Just start doing something already and stop worrying about buying the perfect piece of equipment that no one could ever find any fault with for any reason.
PLEASE!
Rich
Edited 8/28/2002 12:35:59 PM ET by Rich Rose
Hi Rich Rose,
I am not looking for the perfect tool. One thing I will agree with and that is....I am guilty of procrastinating. I do have some experience with small hand tools. I'm only trying to buy the necessary tools for the job. I have used a coping saw for coping joints when putting cove moldings, baseboards and door casings. I don't think there's anything wrong with incorporating power tools alongside hand tools. If I had a backsaw right now I'd probably try cutting my chair pieces with it. Rich would you really choose a bandsaw over a good quality jigsaw to build an Adirondack chair? It's not like I can't afford to buy a reasonably priced jigsaw. How many hand tools do you own? Have you ever used a Jack plane, rabbit plane, block plane or bullnose plane? Do you consider those an absolute necessity? I could do with a trisquare, marking guage and backsaw.
When it comes to tackling new woodworking projects I like to look over the plans thoroughly before plunging in. Then I sit down to write out a materials list so I can calculate the amt. of board feet I need. Trying to pick up boards of a size that keeps waste to a minimum.
A procrastinator....yes ! obscessive....hmmm maybe, but parallelized with indecision...... who me????? Never. LOL
Wendy
Hi Dennis,
Just finished reading an article about backsaws. A book published by Tauton press. Excellent book by the way. Written with the beginner in mind. It's called Basic Craftsmanship. So much to choose from. Everyone has their favorite. I discovered that The Dozuki is one of the more expensive backsaws you can buy. But comes highly recommended. And yes it cuts on the back cut like a coping saw. Which means the blade is in tention. Less chance of the saw blade binding. The Japenese saw is also able to use a thinner blade than a European or western saw.
I own an inexpensive backsaw/dovetail saw with a rounded handle. Some experts prefer the pistol handled saws. Apparently they hold the blade at just the right angle. I have nothing against using any hand tools. The right backsaw apparently can cut like a surgeon! Even beginners can learn how to use a backsaw in no time.
Wanda
Wanda -
I will echo Rich's perspective on your situation. TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER.... NOW! After you finish reading this that is (grin)
Believe me, I have no intention of offending you or wanting to make you feel bad. My comments are for your own good and intended to be supportive.
I just bought a 3x8x30" hunk of ash for $20 for a project. That's the most expensive piece of wood I've ever purchased for my shop. I have no idea whether or not I can make the thing I want to make out of this hunk of wood but either tonight or tomorrow night I'm gonna start chopping on it to see. I'll never know if I agonize over which tool to use or this or that or the other.
I've been whacking on stuff since I was a kid. The first tool I ever bought was a Sears crosscut handsaw. (Other than my hammer). The first power tool I ever bought was a Sears portable circular saw. With those tools, plus a B&D (that's right, Black & Decker) 1/2" drill motor I completely gutted a 1920's vintage house in Seattle, installed a new electrical service, new drywall, ... well you get the idea.
The point - I enjoy our conversation(s) Wanda, but I'll wait until you build something to talk about before I reply again. I don't care if you build a sawhorse, or just cut a board in half. Doesn't have to be square or the pieces equal length. Just go do it.
Then we'll talk.
Now to figure out how to mill a perfect hexagon. (See Rich - there *was* a reason why I asked about the 30degree saw setup (hehehe))Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hi Dennis,
Don't worry I'm not offended. I think men are very different than women when it comes to approaching things. Oh no! Now I'm probably going to be labelled a female chauvanist. YIKES!
Men have it easier. Carpentry and woodworking is still male dominated. I don't know too many women who are into woodworking. And I'm willing to bet that all the carpentry classes at the local college are made up of 99% men. I have yet to see a woman working on a construction site where I live. All the woodworkers I've talked to have been men. Wwomen need encouragement! We need to believe that we can do it. Woodworking is something that can be enjoyed by all.
"just bought a 3x8x30" hunk of ash for $20 for a project. That's the most expensive piece of wood I've ever purchased for my shop. I have no idea whether or not I can make the thing I want to make out of this hunk of wood..."
Now why would somebody just buy something without knowing whether or not they can build their project with it???? You Men love tinkering. I would't buy it unless I knew for sure that I could use it.
As for various woodworking projects.......I have made a large heavy duty work bench with drawers and cupboards out of plywood, hardboard and 2X4's using a radial arm saw, table saw, jointer, planer. (that's was the first major project I did in the fine woodworking coarse) God I miss using those power tools. Radial arm saw did a quick job of cutting out dadoes and rabbits for the legs of the workbench. But I have also build lots of other things using basic hand tools. Made my first two compartment compost bin using a handsaw and nails. The 2nd one was so much easier using a compound miter saw! :) I've even built raised vegetable beds using only a hammer, handsaw and 3 inch nails. Didn't own a drill back then. Let me tell you cutting a 4X4 post with a handsaw isn't much fun. I make do with what I have. The only power tools I have are my tablesaw, drill and router.
Guess I better get busy and build that chair. I've got to prove to my sister that a women can actually build an Adirondack chair. She doesn't need to go to Home hardware to buy a $75.00 Adirondack chair when you can build one for $25.00. I'm not just an "armchair" woodworker. there's a lot riding on this chair..... LOL My PRIDE is at stake.
Talk to you when I get this darn chair made Dennis. :)
Wanda
Thanks for the corrected link, Wanda. A pretty decent looking design.
I'm on my way out to rip some more boards off the wall in the shop, making room for my lumber rack, but while dinner's digesting, I want to respond to some things:
"Wwomen need encouragement! We need to believe that we can do it."
This forum is not the place to come for general feel-good support.
Not all of us women feel this way. I, for one, get my "encouragement" from doing something successfully or, if it's not totally successful, at least in such a way that I've learned from it.
Having someone you don't know, you've never met, and who's never seen you work tell you that you can or can't do something doesn't mean squat.
"I have made a large heavy duty work bench with drawers and cupboards out of plywood, hardboard and 2X4's using a radial arm saw.... But I have also build lots of other things using basic hand tools."
If this is the case, then asking the question "Do you think this project is too advanced for a beginner like myself?" is kinda nuts. I think you must know that you have the skills to complete this project.
"Men have it easier." That's c*&p You couldn't pay me to be a man in this society. They may have fewer obstacles in politics, country clubs and big business, but when it comes to artisanship "all" it takes is skill, talent and moxy. There's no glass ceiling. The only thing that'll hold you back is playing the demure female.
I've been a "tom-boy" all my life, and firmly believe that women can do vitually anything they really want to do. It gets my dander up more than just a bit when a woman professes to want to do something out-of-the-ordinary, obviously has the basic skills and aptitude needed to embark on the venture, and then adapts an "Ohhhh, poor little me, I'm not sure I can really do it, are you suuurrrre I can do it, I need encouragement" routine.
Much as I wanted to jump with both feet on Rich and Dennis when they started lecturing you, I'm now firmly in their camp. As Nike says, "Just Do It" /
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/28/2002 9:59:20 PM ET by forest_girl
FG,
That about caps it. And not because you agree. You've said all that can be said.
Wanda. No one is tring to be hurtful. But I think that Splintie picked it up from the start. You ask for advice, but you're really not interested.
FG, I also don't buy that cr*p about male and female roles. I've had a little of the reverse experience. 35 years ago when I taught myself how to make a couch (had no furniture and a family to support) by measuring the one at Macy's (turning it upside down when the salesman wasn't around) I also made the cushions. I bought a sewing machine and learned to sew. On upholstery fabric!
Then I had a sewing machine. So I started using it for it's major intent. I started making clothes for myself, my wife and my kids. Well the ENTIRE home sewing industry is aimed at women, as though men simply don't exist.
(What are men called who sew? Taylors!)
I bought a sewing book and still remember the first few pages of introduction, with pictures of a woman sewing: "You and your daughter will have a marvelous time picking the styles that you and she will wear!" Gag me!
When I was paying for some fabric in a fabric store, the sales woman exclaimed, in a mocking tone, for all the store to hear, "Oh, do you sew? Oh, how CUTE!"
Stick it in your ear lady. I use the same part of my brain to make three dimensional garments out of flat pieces of cloth that I do to make three dimensional furniture out of flat pieces of wood. The major difference is that you don't get as dirty sewing as woodworking.
If I see something mechanical that I want to master, I figure out how it's done and I do it. Pretty soon I get fairly good at it. There are methods of work that result in a crafstman-like (forgive the unintended gender in that word) result, no matter the field of interest.
Getting somewhat OT of this thread. What the hay.
Rich
Edited 8/28/2002 10:40:58 PM ET by Rich Rose
(Had to run in and catch the 9th inning. My poor Mariners!)
Rich, the sewing thing cracks me up. I was the worst da&* seamstress in high school. It was truly embarassing. That's one reason I'm kinda slow when I build something -- I want to make sure I don't put things on backwards the way I did in 'home ec'. I've gotta say, the men in the hardware stores and lumber stores are so unlike the lady you ran into in the fabric store. With few exceptions, they treat me respectfully, and take me seriously. Kudos to 'em.
OK, no beer to cry in, so back to the shop.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/28/2002 11:00:52 PM ET by forest_girl
LERT:
** SADDLE-UP ** RIDE HARD ** KICK ASH **
If I ever had to go into battle again and had to choose a few good men and women to serve with, You just made the list!! That's all I have to say..
...THAT SAYS IT ALL...
sarge.jt
Jamie, that was pretty fun and i agree with most of it except the glass ceiling part. But i figure that's what a 20 oz. waffle-face is for. It's a different world woodworking for fun than for profit. Of course the guys at the lumberyard are nice to you..you're paying RETAIL!
Rich, i used to sew for hire before i got into woodworking--very similar skills. But it would have been a different gender-bending experience for you had you tried to be a kindergarten teacher or a nurse as a profession, as opposed to sewing for your own use.
Splintie,
Yeah, you're right. And any time I didn't like the raging sexism at the fabric store ("Sewing Center") I could always go down the street to the upholstery supply outlet. The woman who ran it promised me that I could use her Singer industrial machine as soon as I could stretch seat webbing by hand to the proper tension without using a stretching lever "like a wus." After all, she could do it by hand. I never could, but she let me use the Singer anyway.
Rich
Splintie, Rich was paying retail too! My point was, the men at the HW and lumber store aren't condescending. There are several women here on the island who are in construction or remodelling or whatever, 'cause I see 'em at Lumbermen's often when I'm in there. I have every intention of be a working-for-profit woman by this time next year. I won't be working on a construction crew, 'cause I don't have those kinds of skills, and it doesn't appearl to me, but there's certainly other stuff out there.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
A good lumberyard is like finding gold; i've been buying from a place in Boise for several years that is worth the 9-hour drive because the locals missed the boat on relating to women and their wallets. If'n you ever get to Eagle, ID, go to High Desert Hardwood and tell Ron and Jim Colleen says hello. Be prepared to look through a lot of really nice wood...for wholesale! I get 8"+ oak/birch/walnut in #1 grade that replaced my FAS from other sources. They also have exotics to make you weep, they're so high-grade.
What do you do for a living now? What kind of woodworking do you intend to do for profit? What say we thoroughly hijack Wanda's/Wendy's thread?
Splintie,
"A good lumberyard is like finding gold"
This is absolutely wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong! It is definitely not like FINDING gold. LOSING gold is more like it!
It is economically the most dangerous thing I can do. Worse than going to a book store. Leave me there to buy a few board feet of maple and I can spend 3 days, easy, without food going through every thing, EVERYTHING there. And buying most of any exotic wood. When my wife knows I'm going, she cancels all our credit cards, tucks about $100 in my shirt pocket, takes away my wallet and ties a note to my wrist that tells the yard guys to send me home.
Rich
Looks like your wife almost has it covered, but i would suggest she invest in the electric collar, too.
OK, I'll join the hijack -- as long as you admit you started it, LOL!, when we get chastised :-)
I have a small retail store here on Bainbridge, sell games and trading cards -- family-oriented business with lots of kids, but a number of adult collectors and players. I stumbled into this business some time ago when it came as part of a larger business I bought. It's not my life's passion but it's OK for now.
I'd like to develop a small line of display pieces for sports memorabilia -- have a local client-base for that -- jersey cases, displays for signed balls, bats, gloves, shoes, stuff like that -- and having a retail store gives me a place to display the items for good exposure. Pretty easy to get a number of pieces in stock and on the walls by the first part of October for holiday sales.
What I'm more interested in, though, is quality outdoor furniture. That's an area I'm going to explore this winter, get a handful of prototypes built and figure out exactly how a small production run would work.
I'd like to build the WWing up over the next two years to be a full-time and full-paying venture, so when my sig-o retires, he can take over the card/game shop, as that is his passion and he's gonna need something to keep him out of trouble!
[I've actually never been to Idaho. There must be some way to find an excuse to visit, and "stop by" High Desert!]
PS: Seems like many WWers make their money doing cabinetry. Have thought about that, but not sure my space constraints would permit it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'd like to develop a small line of display pieces for sports memorabilia
I was getting some suppies in a Michael's store just yesterday and saw these types of cabinets for the first time; all i can say is "Yuck!" bec of the low level of materials and craft. One of my golfer customers suggested some time ago that i make classy golf ball collection displays and i promptly dismissed the idea, but then i saw one in the store; though badly made, it got me thinking that if a person can afford to golf, they can afford a nice display case, right? And it would be a good item to sell directly to the golf shops instead of trying to retail it, a boon to the off-season for craft fairs.
I do a couple of craft shows where classy outdoor furniture and other forms of "yard art" like gates and planters are displayed--these guys get all the glory, best locations, electricity for their lighting, etc.! I suppose you know of the Northwest Flower and Garden show in Seattle? Friends of mine do it with their ceramic-tiled tables, but you have to be prepared to fill some big orders or put a cap on production, as some do.
I've done some larger cabinetry and some kitchens and offices, but now that the space constraints are no more, the body constraints have surfaced. I don't seem to be able to wait for help to move something...and i should.
Hi Colleen, looks like our hijacked thread's been on auto-pilot for a couple days, LOL.
I haven't actually laid eyes on any of the mass-produced stuff out there, although I suspected that it was pretty cheap stuff. I'm not sure golfers are all that easy to part from their money for anything but clubs and greens fees, but it's somethin' to find out for sure.
The yard stuff...: unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'll never be one to produce the "cute" stuff or anything that's prominantly artistic! Elegantly functional, maybe. Here on the Island there's so much cedar furniture that's cheap and incredibly uncomfortable. I found out when I was selling retail garden stuff at our old store that people will pay for the comfortable and sturdy stuff if it's presented right.
Be you careful and work around those body constraints! I've put a lot of hard miles on my back (and neck and shoulder and hands), so I know what you mean. It gets harder to recover from the injuries too. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
I'll throw a few thoughts at you concerning the high-quality outside furniture. These are just thoughts. I read your post the other day and have gone to speak to my neighbor up the road. He does exactly what you're thinking about from his garage shop. Mainly porch and yard swings, planters etc. His work is excellent and it usually brings request from people that have bought for other items as custom kitchen wooden trash can holders, hall trees, cedar chest and so forth. Most of his built-up client base are high-end as they can afford custom work.
Bill has a trailer as he has to deliver in most cases.( double swings and large pieces). Also he has to haul to craft-shows as Splintie does. He has given some of the swings to local eating establishments, garden clubs, womens clubs, etc. On the back is a placard with custom-built by: and his phone #. That initially drew many responses as he has been doing this business for 16 years I'm aware of. His client base is rather large at this point. He could actually get a commercial shop, but he prefers the exclusion of working alone ( as I ) in a small shop. His clients just have to wait. Money is not his motivator. He does very well, but also works 6 days a week. Week-ends are a must during the warmer months down south as all the shows, fairs, etc. He's just a nice guy, doing quality cutom work for a high-end clientele who can afford. He mentioned to remind you that he has medical insurance through his wife who is a surgical nurse.
I have a house full of furniture so I ocassionally design and build a piece that I give to a lady-friend that has a high-end antique and fine-furnishing shop on the court-house square in my home-town. I price the piece well above what I think it is actually worth. I don't have a degree in marketing, but my grand-father once told me, "Something is worth what some-one is willing to pay". I pay the mortage otherwise so I sit back patiently and wait. I have sold pieces for $800 that I would not have personally paid more than $300. That some-one came along and saw an original custom design from a local craftsman that they decided they had to have and they had the money. Point made...
You are in excellent position to slowly transition into a WW career. You got a current business to pay the bills. You could pursue these goals one step at a time (test the water without totally jumping into a sink or swim situation). Hopefully, you may pick up a thought from this post that will be of help to you in your attempt to reach your goal. If not, just dis-regard them as just foolish-ness from a dumb old country-boy.grin>
Regards,
sarge..jt
Hi Sarge, how's it goin'? Thanks for the info you relayed from your friend. He's in precisely the situation I'd like to work into (with the possible exception of lots of shows -- packing, unpacking, and packing right back up again isn't my favorite activity! -- but I, too, prefer working on my own. Want to do pieces that get done and delivered, but little or no "installation" on my part.
Out of curiosity, do you know how he's taken care of liability insurance, and auto-used-for-business? I have some coverage with my retail liability policy, but it may not be what I'll need a couple years down the road.
PS: Your grandfather was right! Glad you took his advice to heart.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
I will try to get back to see Bill by the week-end. I will also ask his wife..heh..Bill is a great craftsman, but kind of "I don't need a building permit, to heck with rules" type. He does not have to do as many shows now as a lot is word of mouth from clients at this point. Most, I could say.
Glad to see you on the attack with that wood-rack. You will be pleased to get everything organized. It's a space saver and a work saver. You might also consider cabineting in any open space under work-benches, etc. down the road. There's not an un-used space in my shop. Might even consider putting locks on the cabinets to keep anyone that is destructive with tools away from them. grin>>
If there's any more info that might be of help, e-mail or post b-4 week-end. I'll see that it gets asked! Thanks for the post and do yourself proud with that wood-rack!
Regards..sarge.jt
Thanks Sarge. Got the 'easy' part of the rack process done last night (putting up the roofing felt and OSB+paneling over the upper wall. Only wrenched one shoulder getting the OSB 6 feet up.
Next organization project is a workbench. Have two sets of 2 full-extension drawers reclaimed from an old greeting card display to incoporate somewhere. Locks? Yeah, I got locks, you betcha! I envy people who can have all their chisels and drill bits and saws displayed out where they're easily reached. I don't dare! I put out decoys -- old stuff I don't care about, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
The rest of your rack shouldn't be a muscle job. Take your time, you've been without this long. Hope shoulder is Ok!
I remember you talking about the cabinets somewhere. They tell me I have a photo-static mind, I just ran out of film years ago. Heh.. I spent a little over a year building my shop. I feel it's really been a benefit in the big picture. IMO I think you will find organization will make life there much easier!
Regards...sarge..jt
The light-bulb went on yesterday when I was driving around picking out a new drill press -- I think I'm gonna put the 2 sets of drawers side-by-side underneath the lumber rack, make 'em into a platform, and store sheet goods on them!! This eliminates the need to immediately figure out how to incorporate them into a workbench, and I can get up and running again (the shop is in excruciating disarray with that wall all messed up).
The drill press? Upgraded from an $89 Craftsman (from 4 years ago) to a $99 Delta, LOL!!!!! It has more capacity under the bit, so I can drill my on-edge 2x4's, a depth setting that sets in a snap, and a ratcheting table raiser/lowerer. Wow, hittin' the big time (can you tell I don't use a drill press much?). I have a tooless friend who'd like my drill press.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
Is the press 10" or 12". I noticed recently one of the bench models has a racheting base. Cool. I use a 10" Ryobi B/T that I built a custom base for, added a press table with fence and slots for sliding toggle clamps. I could afford a bigger model but find I get by nicely with what I got as I actually do more metal drilling with it for various things around the shop than wood.
Good idea putting the cabinets under the wood-rack. Kill two birds with one stone. Storage and a base for vertical sheets. That will allow you more flexibility designing the bench as you are not dictated by building it around the cabinets you already have. Sounds like you are on a roll! I see more signs of fall and great weather here. Almost time to do some assembly.
Regards..
sarge..jt
Pssst, Sarge, c'mere -- (sssshhhh) -- gotta stop that talk about killing birds -- my cat's gonna hear! I spend mega$$$ every year feeding the birds, and she tries to make a snack out of every chickadee she sees!
Thanks for the support. I'm about to fasten the uprights to the wall, mark off the holes for the pipes, pull 'em down and drill 'em. The floor's pretty uneven, so have to have the 2x4s in place to get a good level set of holes.
It's a 10" DP. So far pretty good, except the chuck fell off 3 times when I was countersinking with a 1" spade bit. Don't know whether I didn't pound it on enough, or if I was working at too high of a speed. How do you tell when the darn thing's seated anyway?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
When it doesn't come off when drilling.. Try switching your belts down to a slower speed and take your time feeding, I find with the smaller B/T's that will usually help. I also find that slower speeds (arouhd 1750 or so) work better for me with Forstner bits. You could relate that to spades also, as both take a big bite. Were you getting wood-burn. If so, a likely senario for too many rpm or too fast a feed. Possibly both. Pay close attention to your machine. It it like a child that cannot speak. You will learn symtoms that tell you what's wrong. BTW, if those spades hit pay-dirt at an angle, they will grab and kick that chuck. (Dennis mentioned about the wrist) Check your alignment of bit and table for a 90*. It may not be perfect. Remember that we payed less for these B/T's, can't expect precise machining. Just tweak it as close as you can get.
Heard what you said about the birds. Shop cat Lucky is quite the hunter also. I had to quit feeding the birds and squirrels for that reason. It's just their natural instinct. Ticks me off when he's sucessful, but I am aware he does not reason as a human.
Regards..
sarge..jt
FG,
I had to return and swap out the DP because of the chuck falling out. Make sure its clean..and just tap it ...if the problem persists, return. Good Luck
Thanks BG. I did way more than just tap it Friday, and when I was drilling my 7/8" x 2-3/4" holes in the 2x4's it stayed on, but I was on the absolute lowest speed of my drill press (was using a spade bit). I'll keep the box just in case. Do you have a Delta?? Gotta say, I don't relish the idea of putting another one together, but if the chuck isn't gonna stay on, no sense in keeping it. Guess I'll see how it goes.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/8/2002 12:52:23 PM ET by forest_girl
FG,
Hope it stays together for you. I have a 17" craftsman radial arm...bought on sale and, as I mentioned, had the same problem. I know what you mean about not relishing, but gotta have the mustard if you want a hot dog pipe rack. Guess who hasn't eaten supper yet...lol. BG
Your radial arm saw had the same problem as my drill press? I must be missing something here :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
He might be talking about a radial drill press. The head is on a horizontal column so the whole head tilts right or left, comes in and out, and pivots right and left on the vertical column. In machine shops these things can get huge. Literally put a car under it and drill holes all over the car.
Don
> ...Now why would somebody just buy something without knowing whether or not they can build their project with it????
Because I've never done anything like this before. I may end up buying another 25$ piece of wood before I'm done. If I let my life be filled with doubt as to whether or not I could do this or that, I wouldn't bother to get out of bed in the morning.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
"I own an inexpensive backsaw/dovetail saw with a rounded handle. Some experts prefer the pistol handled saws"
Outside the US Wanda your little straight handled saw is called a gents saw, bead saw or sometimes the 'joiner's' fancy' usually with about 32 teeth per inch. I've seen coarser ones. An open or pistol grip back saw about 8" long with somewhere between about 16 and 22 points per inch, which cuts on the push stroke is more commonly considered a dovetail saw, again, outside the US. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture
Hi,
Yup my backsaw with it's turned handle is often called a (gent's saw). It can be used for dovetailing or cutting short tenons because the blades are usually narrow. The wider, pistol-style handle provides more stability and a wider blade. So these saws can be small, for dovetailing, or large, for mitering, crossscutting and cutting deep tenons.
Yup backsaws come in many shapes and forms.
Wanda
Hi again,
Here'e the website I wanted you to have a look at.
handy_mag/article_05.asp
You can go there and click on the 2nd article. That will bring up the plans for the White oak Adirondack chair.
I'm going to make mine out of s4s spruce. While we're on the topic...What material do most people build adirondack chairs out of????? White oak must cost a bundle. Not even sure If I'd find it at our lumberyard.
That's all for now
wanda
Cedar, cedar, cedar. Your local dealer might be able to special-order the saw for you. Offer to pay in advance. Call Freud direct and ask them. Is Sears up there? They carry many major brand tools, and down here they carry Freud tablesaw blades. You could probably get one on eBay. Do a http://www.google.com search for "Freud power tools jig saw" and see what comes up. You may find a site there. Call Lee Valley Veritas (they are Canadian) see if they can help. Dunno, somethin' will work.
My own personal opinion about Adirondack-ia: The vast majority of the plans out there result in a piece of furniture I'd not want to sit on for more than 5 minutes. They are all right angles and flat. My favorite Adirondack line is made in Canada, has a curved back, soft under the knees and curved fat arms.
I've not been able to look at the chair at the web site you mentioned. You might want to go back to that site, copy the address from the address bar in your browser and re-post it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Forest Girl,
Yes I'd love to make a cedar Adirondack chair but I want to get good at it first. Better that I practice using Spruce for now. Eventually I will make one out of cedar. I have 30 boards of cedar stored away in my basement. Got them at a really good price 2 years ago.
I have located a dealer here in town that sells Freud Jigsaws. YEAH!!! Unfortunately they won't have their new shipment in till the middle of Sept. so I've got to wait. :(
I double checked that web address before I posted that message. Hmm I'll have to check it again.
I'm familiar with Lee Valley. They are a wonderful Canadian company I have an outdated catalogue of theirs hanging around somewhere. They have a wonderful assortment of specialty items. I love browsing through the pages of their catalogue. What a great selection of Backsaws they have.
Wanda
Yes, a Shopsmith is one of those all-in-one deals. It doesn't do anything extraordinarily well, but it does a lot of things passably.
Before i got my own planer/jointer, i had my wood surfaced by a local sash (window) manufacturer--not cheap, but affordable, and i got to see those three human fingers hanging over their big tablesaw, one of the better safety reminders i've seen.
I've had real variable luck ordering my wood thicknessed, so what i usually do is get it at 7/8" Hit-and-Miss, which means they get to hog off and keep the great majority of the shavings at their place, but i get the last bit to remove to make sure i get a good surface. If you have a local cabinetmaker or similar who will take your lumber to finished thickness for you, so much the better, but don't expect good surfaces from a yard. Those machines generally aren't well maintained and they'll throw anything through them.
There are carrier jigs to hold boards that will enable you to joint wood on a tablesaw. You can joint boards with a router. You can joint boards with a handplane. You can buy the wood S2S1E...translation: surfaced two sides, one edge. This gives you one nominally straight edge to start with.
What tools do you consider absolutely necessary...
For myself, an iron-clad will is pretty much my all-occasion Swiss Army knife. If i didn't have a hammer, i would use a rock. If i didn't have a rock, i would lash it together with rope. Lacking a rope, i'd wedge it. Ingenuity is your best tool of all, but i'm also pretty sure a person could build anything in the world with a chainsaw, a router, and a couple C-clamps.
> .... i'm also pretty sure a person could build
anything in the world with a chainsaw, a router, and a couple C-clamps.
Consider what was built before the invention of the internal combustin engine and the discovery of electricity. OK, maybe the ancients had clamps. (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
re: your questions about bandsaw vs. tablesaw, it all depends on what type of work you're doing and which tool you like to use the best. There are die-hard bandsaw folk out there who see little reason to have a tablesaw. I venture to bet, however, the most power-tool-oriented woodworkers see the tablesaw as the main tool in their "stable" so-to-speak.
Adirondak furniture is a category on my list for this winter's building. Can't image using a jig-saw for this purpose, unless I was only making a few pieces. The bandsaw is going to cut pieces much, much more quickly and can be set up to cut to templates if a number of duplicates are being made. A jig saw is also, IMHO, not the most enjoyable tool to use. Using my bandsaw gives me an almost meditative mood-set -- odd, I know.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi forest girl,
I think you're right. The bandsaw would make life so much easier. The cuts would be much more accurate and it would save so much time.
I'm glad I have made my decision. I can't live without a bandsaw! What brand of bandsaw do you use? Does your saw come with a 3/4 inch blade or 1 inch blade? Is it a 1.5 hp motor?
Have you ever made an adirondack table or swing? Just wondering
Wanda
Wanda,
The delta 9 inch bench top band saw has a regular price of $99 at Lowes. I don't know how they do it. It's $40 less then anywhere else I seen, and may be the solution to your jig saw options. I bought one for my father, and it's not a bad little saw at all. In fact, for the money, it's a damn good saw.
Don
Hi Wanda -
I'm not Forest Girl but I'll reply to your query about brand & specs on bandsaws from my limited experience ....
My saw = Delta 14" with riser block installed. Max blade capacity = 3/4". Motor = 3/4hp (to be upgraded in the future to 1+hp).
My personal observations = (others may dissagree) this is a very good 'consumer grade' saw with production capabilities. Castings are *heavy*! (have help to assemble it!!). Out-of-the-box in-tune judgement = fair (wheels were out of plane abut 3/16" but easy to fix).
Don't skimp on blades! Buy the best you can afford or don't buy any until you can afford the best available. Then take care of them. I used a Lennox 3/4" carbide blade the other night to rip some slabs off an 8" diameter, well seasoned log (I'm told logs don't season, boards to, but don't know how to describe a dry log (grin)). The finish of the cut off the blade would have need only some judicious sanding to be a presentable finished cut.
I'm very happy with this machine given its price and capacity. Be aware that it's the only bandsaw I've had an opportunity to use to any extent so stay tuned for other input on other machines.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Rich and Don made some good points while I was writing my post, making coffee and feeding the birds. Here it is anyway. I do agree, though, that you might want to evaluate where you're headed with all this and not get too focused on the tool per se, without putting it into context of what you're going to be doing over the long haul.
Good morning Wanda, I'm curious so want to ask from the get-go: Are you builidnig up a workshop for long-term woodworking? What type of work do you anticipate doing?
Now, on to the bandsaw thing. Dennis has arguably the best of the home-workshop bandsaws, the Delta. It's heavier and stouter, from what I've heard, than any of the other brands. That being said, depending on what type of work you'd be doing, there are other options that would serve you well. Budget and anticipated use would probably dictate your choice. Personally, customer service reputation is a major factor for moi, meaning I choose Jet over Delta most of the time. One thing about the bandsaw purchase: returning it would not be as easy as returning the jigsaw, LOL!!! Best to choose carefully.
I have the Grizzly 1019Z bandsaw (14"). At the time I bought it, I had next-to-no money to spend, and did not anticipate the bandsaw getting more than occasional use. It's a more-than-acceptable tool at an exceptional price, and their customer service is excellent. It came with a 3/8" blade, nothing special. The blades that come with bandsaws are probably not the blade that most people actually use for any length of time. The Lennox blades Dennis uses are excellent, based on "testimonials" I've read. Timberwolf blades are what I eventually ordered, but haven't changed over to yet. They get incredible reviews from people who use them, and they are especially good on these smaller saws because of the low tension required to use them. If you're making adirondak furniture, I'm assuming you'd be using the bandsaw to cut the shaped pieces (scrolling) such as the arms. You'd not be using a 1" blade! That size is for resawing. A 3/4" blade cuts a radius a little over 5", again not a scrolling blade.
If I got to go shopping with a wad of $$ on me today, I'd go out and find me one of the new Jet 14" (or is it 15") models and check it out. Jet produces excellent machines, the new bandsaw is supposed to be super, and their customer service leaves Delta way behind eatin' dust. Unless you're anticipating doing only small projects, the little benchtop saws aren't likely to keep you very happy.
The Grizzly saws are going to be fussier to set up for cuts (readjusting the guides for instance) and the components aren't as heavy-duty as the Jet and Delta, but I like mine just fine -- decided I needed that other $400 to put into other tools that would be used more than the bandsaw. Here's the web page:
http://www.grizzly.com
The 1019Z is $299 during their summer sale.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/26/2002 1:34:08 PM ET by forest_girl
Hi forest girl,
Thought I'd respond to the various messages I've received before going to bed.
Yes, I am planning on building up a workshop for the long term. I want to develop the skills necessary so I can build various pieces of furniture such as.....bookcases, cabinets, night stands, dressers, coffee tables, bed frames. That sort of stuff.
Re: Bandsaw....I agree with you customer service is vital. It is a major factor when considering what brand to buy. That's why I'm thinking about buying the Delta 14 inch bandsaw. The tool supply store where I live only stocks King, Delta, and General International. Those are my 3 choices. This tool shop has a great reputation and they are very customer orientated. I bought my tablesaw from them and have had no problems. I'd love to check out the Grizzly and Jet bandsaws but that is not an option for me.
God! with the woodworking experience I have maybe I shouldn't even own a contractor's tablesaw. LOL I have never regretted that purchase. I believe the tablesaw is the cornerstone of any good woodshop. You've got to start somewhere. I'm learning as I go.
wanda
Hi Wanda, that's great that you have a local, dependable dealer. Sounds like they can (and more importantly, will) help you if any problems crop up. I'm with you on the tablesaw thing. Can't imagine living without one!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If you want a good jig saw get a Bosch
You made me laugh out loud.
A good saw is alright, but if she wants a great saw she'll get a Metabo.
;^)
Edited 8/29/2002 9:10:36 PM ET by Don C.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled