I am trying to get the hang of using a hand plane, I’m using a stanley block plane right out of the box, and I’ll be moving along nicely but then suddenly it digs in and stops. I can either try to strong arm it through and finish the stroke or pull back and go over it again with a little more momentum. I don’t know what I am doing wrong, I get a nice thin curly shaving and If I move the iron back any I just get dust not shaving. I’m going with the grain but at an angle and moving uphill. Does this sound like a dull edge(I know new doesn’t mean sharp), or applying pressure wrong, or something else.
thanx for any help
Replies
dread,
It sounds like a dull iron to me, but it's likely there are other things wrong as well.
No plane I've ever come across--even Lie-Nielsens--was ready to use right out of the box. The iron always needs to be sharpened, and even the best planes need a little fettling (tuning up).
If your plane is digging in, it's possible that either the wood has reversing grain or you're planing in the wrong direction. With a sharp iron (which you don't yet have) and a well tuned plane (ditto) that's set for a fine cut, you can often go right through reversing grain--but not always. That's something to be aware of.
It sounds like you know in which direction you should move the plane, but just in case... As you said, you should plane uphill, into the rising grain. If you look at the edge of the board you'll see the grain almost never runs perfectly parallel to the face, it rises up towards one end or the other; you want to plane towards that end so the iron cuts across the grain rather than sticking down into it.
Also, all the begining planers I've known routinely set their planes way too rank. DAMHIKT. Once you've sharpened and fettled your plane, it will take a much finer cut.
Alan
The main 2 problems you have are "Stanley" and "right out of the box.Stanley planes were once great,but now are mass manufactured to the point where quality control is almost non-existant.You have alot of work to do on that plane before it's ready to see wood. Flattening the sole,preparing the blade ,and in this case probably scraping some excess paint from places it shouldn't be.
There are a lot of great resources to teach you how to do this.A few I can think of are Mario Rodrigues's video "Handplanes in the workshop",Garret hack's book "Handplanes",Frank Klauz's video "hand tools", and finally FWW ran an article not long ago about setting up a block plane.
Good luck,
Brent
Thanks guys. I have aquired several planes which all need to be derusted, cleaned, tuned and sharpened... guess I have one more to sharpen.
Let me argue with Brent on one of his points.
There is nothing wrong with your Stanley block plane, except you can't simply take it out the box and start using it.
If you want a block plane that works right out of the box, get a Lie-Nielsen #9 or #60 1/2. ($150)
Get Garrett Hack's "The Handplane Book" and learn how to tune your Stanley. It will make a great block plane but you need to invest about three knowledgeable hours into it.
For you immediate problem - sharpen the blade with a micro/secondary bevel (do a search on how to do that) as best you can and close the throat down to about a 1/64" gap._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Hi Mike,
I guess I didn't express myself properly.What I should have said was that the 2 things together were a problem.Had it been a LV or LN, straight out of the box wouldn't have been that bad a thing.But as we all know ,Stanley is not making tools up to the standards of 100 years ago(many and varied are the reasons).What you get now from Stanley is basically a kit plane.All the parts are there and they fit together,but,not to the tolerances we need for our work.For instance there is often paint where there should be clean mating surfaces,and the blades are basically pieces of metal cut at an angle at one end...there has been no attempt to flatten the back or provide a cutting edge.
As with everything else in this world you get what you pay for.But, you are going to pay.With LV or LN you pay money and a little sweat equity, with Stanley or Record or a few others you pay sweat equity with a little money.There is no doubt you'll end up with a very servicable Stanley plane if you are willing to invest the time and energy to get it that way.I was 14 when I bought my first plane,and it was an exercise in frustration until a wood shop teacher at school showed me how to fettle it.I still have that plane and it works beautifully with a Hock blade in it.
Brent
I agree with you, and I didn't mean to correct your grammar.
One of the problems with Stanley and other inexpensive planes is that they don't work nicely out of the box and end up getting thrown on the useless tool pile and the joy of using a classic tool is never learned.
My first block plane was a Stanley. I didn't use it for about 5 years because it did not do anything worthwhile. When I got back into woodworking and started re-learning about handtools I decided to tune the Stanley. I finally got it where it was a usable tool.
Then I went to a wood show in Sacramento 3 years ago and stopped by the Lie-Lielsen booth. I just ordered my 11th & 12th L-N plane, including a #8.
It is a shame the Stanley name has lost so much of its attraction. Let's hope Lie-Nielsen understands the nature of their company's reputation (I think they do!)_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Dread,
Here's one more possibility: does your Stanley have an adjustable throat? If so, it's adjusted by loosening the front knob and moving the little lever under the knob. The plate should be set so there is just enough clearance to let a fine shaving pass thru the throat, above the iron.
I actually use a stanley block plane myself and had similar problems. Then I got an issue of FWW (about 5 months ago) that had an article on hand plane tune up and used these techniques on my block plane. All I can say is that my $40 plane now takes gorgeous thin cuts that I can easily read newspaper though. This process took a bit of elbow grease, but was definetely worth it. Since then I have bought another cheap plane and tuned it with similar results. Try to find that article!!! If you can't let me know and I'll post the main points.
Art
I can't find the article your are referring to, but I have done alot of research on scary sharp methods and I am thinking about buying the veritas honing guide to use with this process. However any tips/pointers you could send my way would be most appreciated.
Hi, Dread...
You've had some good responses - allow me to toss in a bit. I've recently brought my grandfather's turn-of-century block and fore planes "back from the dead" through many hours of fettling. Were I to purchase, I'd probably pay an extra $150 or so for a much better-finished tool. However, the cast iron in your plane is good, and the blade can be sharpened - it's just a matter of putting all those extra dollars into via sweat equity.
The past issue referred to was October 2004 - David Charlesworth's excellent discussion of plane tuneup/fettling.
BODY:
To tune the sole and sides, try the following:
Materials:
1. A piece of float glass 12"x12" (regular stuff from the glass shop, with added stick-on cushions every few square inches.)
2. Silicon carbide sandpaper - "wet or dry". Some insist that it must be self-adhesive, but you can get by with standard stock if you're paying attention. Grits 220, 400, 600, 800, 1200, 1500, 2000, and 2500.
3. WD-40 or other light oil for lubrication.
NOTE: For all polishing operations below, be sure that the blade is installed but retracted from the throat, and securely tightened under the lever cap. That cast iron is plenty strong, but it will distort minutely under cap pressure. By installing the blade, you will ensure that the plane is in its normal "as used" condition while you're tuning its exterior surfaces.
Process:
Begin with the sole and 220 grit paper on the glass. Wet with WD-40 and stroke the sole back and forth a zillion times until it's obvious that 100% of the sole is being contacted by the paper. Be firm, but don't press so hard that the glass is distorted. Toward the end of this step, lighten pressure a bit so as to ensure that the sole is "dead flat." Also, reverse the plane under your hand every 5-10 minutes so as to equally distribute any inadvertant bias. The hard part is done (mine took several hours for that step alone!)
Now go to the sides, doing the same stroking and reversing. Use a precision square to check that the sides are square to the sole. If not, you can apply more pressure to top or bottom (without lifting any portion of the side from the paper) so that the pressure bias will cause heavier stock removal from the offending area. Remember to keep the entire side in contact at all times to keep from rounding.
Once the sole and sides are flat and square, move on to polishing which, thankfully, will require a lot less elbow grease. Using every succeedingly finer grit, hone the surface until all scratch marks from the previous grit have been eliminated. Keep reversing orientation to cancel any unintentional bias, and re-check squareness after every polishing grit. By the time you get through with the 2500 grit paper, the plane will have been polished to a nearly mirror-like sheen. The "polished" aspect has genuine validity, as it will help the plane move across the wood surface with minimal drag, thus putting your effort directly into the wood, and providing accurate tactile feedback.
Whew!
BLADE:
One of your respondents rightly pointed out that the blade is most likely a disaster. Its back should be similarly polished, but that's needed only for an inch or so of its length. If you grind often, you'll need to extend the polished area.
For a block plane, the top of the blade's sharpened area serves as a chipbreaker. Since all shavings contact it, you'll find it helpful to polish that as well.
The underside of the locking cap should be straight and polished at the edge where it contacts the blade. (That is, get rid of the paint, and add a polished contact section.)
If you're proficient with a file, you can staighten and polish the rear of the throat opening so the blade rides smoothly (chatter-free) on a dead-straight line. Careful - you can ruin the plane!
You obviously are able to plane thin shavings, and know how to adjust blade projection. For beginners, a large throat opening is usually recommended to as to avoid blade damage and choking. However, the throat should be closed quite a bit when making fine cuts - down to 1/32" or less. Play with that a bit, and your plane will "talk to you" for every cut depth.
Thanks for the info and article citation, I hadn't consider tuning with the blade installed, its a good point. With the exception of that fact I think I've become pretty perficient at the lapping work, over the last few months i've aquired several planes (people just keep giving them to me, now I've become a "collector" almost by accident) and have spent alot of time on them (just not using them). The only piece I haven't work on is the iron, I haven't done any sharpening work at all(just "how-to" research). I intend that to be my next project once I complete my current project.
--By the way, I love the fact I've recieved so many responses, this is great site.Thanx again for taking the time to help me out.
Hello again, Dread ...
As to irons - they can easily be sharpened and polished with the same plate glass and SiC paper system. (Incidentally, I didn't mention that my glass is 3/8" thick - seems right. Two pcs at 12x12 and another at 12x24 for the bench planes.) I use them atop a protective sheet (newspaper) on my tablesaw so as to ensure flat underpinnings.
For iron sharpening, it *is* easier to use self-adhesive paper (see http://www.klingspor.com) in the various grits. The 4 sqft area of my plates will support the entire needed range of papers.
(Personally, I'm greatly attracted to the plate-and-paper system, as the surfaces remain flat. Japanese water stones are truly spectacular, but require constant vigilance and shaping to ensure flatness. Why bother? You can buy the glass for about $35, and another $80 will buy enough SiC paper rolls to last several years - a sum less than for a complete set of top-quality Japanese water stones and their requisite maintenance materials.)
There are a couple of honing guides out there that will work for you - one is the little shorty that simply clamps the blade above a roller. I had one once (General brand) that I didn't much care for. Veritas has one that looks to be much more refined, but I've not yet tried it. The second is also a General (Rockler.com) with an extended tail - possibly more appropriate for use with the plate system.
After sharpening for each grit, turn the blade+guide over, place its underside absolutely flat on the most recent paper, and stroke gently once or twice to remove the fine burr left from sharpening.
Your irons should be ground to near-perfection, and dead square. With a good guide system (or a very sensitive hand) there should be no need for the much-talked-about secondary bevel - just keep the blade in its guide and proceed through all polishing until you're ready to remove and strop. Remember, every time you add the secondary bevel, you'll have it to remove at the next sharpening. As well, you'll see better chipbreaking if the entire beveled surface is polished.
There are several strop systems out there, including leather wheels. Frankly, I have for years slapped sharpened edges back and forth across the heel of my hand - using skin as the strop - with great success. Have been trying red abrasive in a cloth wheel lately, but can't yet offer any substantive remarks...seems to work.
Funny thing is, in "the good old days" Grandpa didn't have an army of folks offering goodies in exchange for his money - he wouldn't have bought, anyway. The old guys did fantastic work by paying attention to their tools and using time-honored techniques to keep them in shape. It works ... look at 15th-17th Century French cabinetry.
Have fun - a pleasure to have "met" you.
---John
John, just another thought! After all the work that has been suggested , and correctly so, by the rest of the group is done, maybe what you need to be using is a smooth plane. I don't know exactly what your trying to plane, but maybe a bench plane might be a little better suited. Good luck tuning your plane. Lots of work, but very satisfing. Dick B
Hi, Dick...Thanks for your thoughts. Actually, I use that process on all of my metal planes, from block thru jointer. Most were acquired long before my budget would let me even think about "super planes" - the $250 and up goodies. Some of them were my father's and grandfather's, and it's worth it to me to bring them to surpassing usability. With "good bones", even a less expensive plane can be brought to a high level of performance with careful fettling - so it's worth the effort, if'n ya don't mind the sacrifice of time. Actually, some of the oldies are even better targets for a tuneup, as they've been stressed for a long period under cap pressure - once they're fettled, they'll stay that way for quite a while. It's not about making them pretty - the polished surfaces allow the work to go into the wood, and really do improve "feel." As well, "the flatter the gooder." If the sides are square to the sole, other opportunities occasionally open up. If you've not tried, it, I'd urge you to fettle just one and see for yourself what a difference it makes in control and accuracy!FYI - I use Klingspor self-adhesive SiC paper in 8 grits on 3/8 glass beds. One is 12x24 for the big guys. (I gave up fiddling with loose paper - it just gets too squirrely when it's the plane you're supposed to be watching! )
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