Anyone know anything about the quality of the various milk paint brands? Would appreciate any good wisdom.
Thanks,
Alan – planesaw
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Replies
I've only ever used the "old fashioned" brand. Never had any complaints in several outings.
I can't make comparisons but I've been using "Old fashioned Milk Paint" from time to time for at least 15 years. Excellent stuff, and their service is just as good. Highly recommended.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1
Same hereBoiler
I just finished a project that I finished with General Finishes milk paint. I used the pre-mixed paint, I think they also sell a powdered form. I'm very happy with the results. I top coated the milk paint with a General Finishes water base satin finish. I sprayed all the coats and they came out great. I would recommend them to anyone. They are a little expensive but I feel the results were worth the cost.
Joe
I just finished a little project and used the same finish as galenajoe. All-in-all I was pleased with the results, but had a little trouble getting used to the application. This was my first time using milk paint (mostly a lacquer man in the past). The store that I bought the paint contacted the manufacturer for me while I was in the store and the customer service people gave me a couple of tips tha solved my problems. Can't ask for any more tha that!
tdlugosh,
May I ask what problems you encountered and what the company told you?
Thanks for the info.
Alan - planesaw
The advice given was to use a larger needle and to up the pressure a little. I was using a 1.2 needle and went to a 2.0. I upped the pressure from 15 to 20 lbs. At the same time I thinned down the paint mixture a little more than I started with, but soon discovered that this was a mistake so I went back to my original mixture (about 10%).
I hope that helps.
Tom
General Finishes doesn't make milk paint, they make a waterborne acyrlic paint in milk paint COLORS. That doesn't mean it is a bad product, just that it isn't milk paint, and won't perform like milk paint. For example, it won't waterspot, while milk paint will -- unless top coated with something like an oil/varnish mix.
A lot of the Windsor Chair makers use Old Fashioned. It's awesome for building up several different colors and rubbing them so the first colors show through. It does take some getting used to, it's not like normal paint, and spraying it defeats the purpose! It's supposed to look old! Each batch will be a little different. And don't try to paint normally, it's more like dabbing it on. Milk paint dries immediately but doesn't cure for several days so you can get a wet rag and rub it off in places to make it look worn. This is better than sanding because it won't look quite so harsh. It looks like hell until you burnish the final coat it with a rough rag and then apply a varnish/oil final coat and then maybe some wax.
I am amazed to see you say it will water spot! I don't doubt it, and I haven't tested it on mine, but it is so impervious to everything else, I am just surprised. Thanks for the warning. I guess the pieces I have of old milk paint have a topcoat on them, 'cause they sure don't have any water rings from glasses.Gretchen
Contact HighlandWoodworking.com _ I think it's Old Fashioned Milk Paint. The website is closed, so the company may not have survived. Highland has carried it for a long time.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Greg, The Old Fashioned Milk Paint Co. website seems just fine to me. Why are you thinking it is closed? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I forgot to mention that I thinned both the milk paint and the clear topcoat with 1oz of water for every 8oz of finish. I thought the finish was too thick to spray as it came. But after thinning it sprayed just fine. I use a conventional Binks gun and sprayed with about 30 lbs of pressure.
Joe
Thanks Joe. I have made a bunch of Shaker oval boxes. Most of cherry with a clear finish, but some of maple and pine which I want to paint the way the Shakers did some of theirs.
Good info if I spray.
Alan - planesaw
Use the Old Fashioned MilK Paint as others have said. I would also be interested in what the "problems" were. If the person (who said he was a lacquer man) tried to spray it, I can imagine the problems!! LOL It does NOT go on smooth, if that is what is expected. It is the most durable paint in the world!!
I've tried a couple different brands of the powder. I think it's all pretty similar. Just keep in mind as we sort thru authentic milk paint and inauthentic milk paint that very very few folks used milk paint in the 18th century.
Windsor chairmakers have sort of convinced themselves that multiple different colors of milk paint were used to decorate period windsors. This simply isn't true, but it's popular with customers. It's become the look of authenticity for people.
Oil based paints were by far more popular with the greater population of 18th c furniture makers (and owners). I think you can use milk paint to effectively approximate the look of worn period lead based paint.
Ironically, some of the acryillic based canned "milk paints" (which technically aren't milk paints at all) have a pretty authentic look. Again, there are tricks to using them. The key is to look at old paint and copy what you see.
Adam
I saw a demonstration (at Colonial Williamsburg) using an authentic oil based formula for the almost ubiquitous old dark green on the chairs. At least it is an old dark green layer now, but originally that pigment yielded a bright "spring grass" green that merely darkened severely over time. Seems our 18th c. forebearers weren't so staid and "tasteful" after all.
I spoke to CW's conservator Chris Swan about this very subject a few years backs. It's hard to change attitudes about this sort of stuff since we none of us have ever seen the 18th c this way. This is not what is in our homes or what we see in museums.I can only add two things at least one of which has gotten me into trouble in the past (whatever).1) It's important to try to sort out myth from fact. Museum curators are changing exhibits and these WILL shape attitudes of the general public. 2) Research is continuing and the experts are changing their understanding of what is myth and what is not. It's important to keep up. They are. So shoud we.My sense is that we listen to 60 year old pros on KNOTS and elsewhere who started their businesses 30 years ago. They have the customers they have and the understandings they have. My personal experience with these guys (and with curators and conservators) is that they don't like the implication that they've been "doing it wrong" for 30 years. And I'm not blaming them for feeling that way or accusing them of not trying harder. God bless them. They've paved the way for me and my peers. But there's a lesson in there for all of us. We need to keep our minds open and keep up with the latest research.Adam
As someone has pointed out, old "milk paint" is really associated with "color" so if the color is your aim, it can be pretty well matched. I always associate milk paint with a more primitive/country style of furniture.Gretchen
Just to be clear (and not necessarily solely for your benefit Gretchen) the milk in milkpaint refers to the binder used. So technically, only paints with milk binders are milk paint. Everything else is everything else. Cans of stuff marked "milk paint" may just be more expensive versions of standard hardware store semi gloss paints.
We know Germans and Moravians here in the Philadelphia area sometimes used milk paints for some stuff. But not all German furniture or items with worn paint were milk painted. I think milk paint may have been used more widely in the 19th c.
In my shop, I use milk paint because it has several of the other characterisitics of old paint (coarsely ground pigments chief among them).
If one were seeking authenticity (and not that one should) I would think spraying "milk paint" would be the last thing one would do. Period paint has a lot of texture and a deal of variation in it's opacity and hue.
Adam
Edited 6/1/2009 12:21 pm ET by AdamCherubini
I would strongly discourage you from using a pre-mixed paint or heaven forbid, spraying!!! Refinishers, chair makers and reproduction furniture makers use milk paint because it closely approximates the colors, texture, and subtle differences of shading that more closely resembles the hand made lead and oil based paints the early craftsmen used. Milk paint only gets better with age and wears to a wonderful patina. Also it won't chip like regular paint. Read the article by Mike Dunbar from Fine Woodworking issue #136, you'll be a convert and never go back!PS (According to The Workshops of David T. Smith, milk pain did come into general use in the last half of the eighteenth century. Before that time many craftsman did mix up their own preferred recipes of either milk paint or oil based or whatever. In fact there are numerous examples of milk paint found on shaker furniture and American Windsors more than 200 years old with no noticeable signs of wear!)
Adam, Steve, Gretchen, gepetto, dkeller, tdlugosh, et al --
Wow! Thanks for such great information. I realize there is milk paint using real milk as the binder (tempted to try that just to see how it works, here in PA I can get raw milk easily); that there are brands (Old Fashioned, Real, etc.) that are powder which one mixes in water; and there are products that simply are the "traditional milk paint" colors. It has been quite an education on the subject over the past few days.
Adam --
Do you have any idea what the Shaker's used in painting their oval boxes? I will go back and re-read some of the material I have regarding that, but my memory (although it may be faulty) is that they made their paint using powder/pigments. Were paints in the 18th and 19th centuries made at home (so to speak) with powder but with some sort of an oil base? i.e., tell me more about the oil paints of the 18th c. you referred to.
My goal is to paint some of the Shaker boxes I have made somewhat "authentically" as the Shakers did, and probably some using more contemporary products but in the "old" colors.
I certainly appreciate everyone's help. It is great to hear from some very talented people.
Alan - planesaw
Edited 5/31/2009 5:09 pm ET by Planesaw
Alan - the "traditional" brand of milk paint really is milk paint. The basics to milk paint is casien as the binder (the milk part), slaked lime, and the pigment. The pigments in Traditional Milk Paint are Japan colors, which you can purchase as a pigment.
A lot of the pigments used in the late 18th and 19th centuries are no longer available as paint pigments today, because at least some of them are extremely toxic, and most of them are mildly toxic. For example, the green verdigris paint that most 18th century Windsor chairs were painted with consisted of copper acetate (mildly poisonous), white lead (Lead II Oxide - highly poisonous) and linseed oil.
The references I've seen for Shaker paint recipes generally followed the oil paint recipes of the day. The basic formula is approximately 2 lbs of white lead boiled in a gallon of linseed oil, with the clarified liquid poured off, followed by adding the pigment, and in some cases additional, ground white lead as a carrier and binder.
Some of the pigments available in the 19th century should give you pause for making truly authentic paint. Some of the reds, for example, are based on mercurial sulfide (really exceptionally toxic). One of the more popular middle 19th century yellows was based on Cadmium, which is also very toxic. "Prussian Blue" is based on cyanide compounds. However, I should add that some of the authentic pigments are quite innocuous - generally these are the earth-toned pigments, like sienna, burnt sienna, etc...
dkellernc --
Okay, agreed, time to re-think authentic. You are correct, I have no need to be THAT authentic.
Please tell me more about the info in your first paragraph. You say the pigments in Traditional Milk Pain are Japan colors, which can be purchased as a pigment.
Do you mean I go buy those pigments and mix them in milk? Pardon my ignorance, but what are Japan colors. I have heard of japanning planes, but not Japan colors.
What would I do -- some detail please -- to make milk paint as you are describing in the first paragraph. Is it safe?
Thanks again,
Alan
There is no need to do your own milk paint. Use the Old Fashioned brand. The colors are authentic (without all the folderol of whatever it was in the past which has been brought up extaneously, in my opinion). I've kind of forgotten what it was you even wanted all this for.
IF you truly want to make milk paint from scratch google for a recipe. There are probably only a thousand sites, with the same recipe.Gretchen
Gretchen,
Was thinking about using it to paint some Shaker oval boxes.
Alan
I would use a paint that will always be smoother--the oil base that others say mimic the colors. Milk paint "may" always have the possibility of having some texture from the compontents. Shaker boxes, to me, are almost "in the wood" color--very very smooth and very very thin application. Just my opinion.Gretchen
This is one of the things you can do with milk paint--thin it to semi-transparency. The "texture", which is mostly from coarser ground pigment and clumped pigment, can be smoothed pretty well with the grey 3-M pads, as was mentioned by at least one other poster above. Even so, you get a little less mechanically perfect finish that looks more appropriate on country pieces. Of course I suppose there could also be some chemical and vegetable dyes used in the Shaker or 19th c. country pieces that would be "in the wood". The best approximation of those would almost certainly be aniline dyes.
"What would I do -- some detail please -- to make milk paint as you are describing in the first paragraph. Is it safe?"
Alan - The basics to making milk paint - use skim milk, slaked powdered lime and pigment. Pigments can be ordered as a powder from an art supply house. Here's one source:
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/Oil-Color-Paints-and-Mediums/Dry-Pigments-and-Binder-Mediums/LUKAS-Pure-Professional-Pigment-Colors.htm
"Japan" colors, by the way, are just a certain set of rare-earth pigments. The term is fairly loose, but generally they are strong, saturated colors.
Powdered lime can be purchased from most specialty nurseries (I'm sure your town has one). Just buy the "powdered agricultural lime" - it's basically the same stuff used to put the lines on athletic fields. It's pure white, and very finely powdered.
I've made my own of this before, but I didn't follow an exact recipe - I added the lime to the milk to form a medium-viscosity liquid, then added the pigment, stirred it all up and used it immediately.
You will probably get better results, though, by purchasing a commercial milk paint - they've been making the stuff for more than 100 years, and know the ins & outs.
One thing to note is that 18th and 19th century paints have very coarsely ground pigments, and the dry pigments for sale at an art store are generally very finely ground. The only way I know around this is to add a bit of distilled water to a container of pigment, let it harden (i.e.-evaporate) into a solid chunk, and then break this up with a mortar and pestle.
Making milk paint is fairly safe, but you still want to avoid breathing the lime and the pigment dust - the lime's irritating, and some of the pigments are mildly toxic.
And all these ingredients are provided by the Old Fashioned Milk Paint container.Gretchen
Alan,
I hear you saying "old" colors, but I think that's probably not what you mean. Color is hue to me. That's only one portion of the look of old paint. There's color or hue, opacity, texture, reflectivity, and the homogeneity of all of those. I would add to that wear and deposition of other stuff such as dirt, grime, grease etc.
I don't know jack about the Shakers. My guess is that David is right; they used oil based paints. I think the Shakers tried to be as self sufficient as possible, so it's likely they made their own paint. Lots of folks did in those days.
What I do is start with either milk paint or a minwax oil based stain, then milk paint. Some stains seem oilier than others. I like Puritan Pine which seem particularly oilly. The stain limits the adhesion of the milk paint resulting in greater transparency. I apply several coats of milk paint and almost always mix the colors together to get what I want. None of the colors look "right" to me out of the package. I mix lexington green with barn red to get a good dark red.
I don't do any of the stuff David mentioned precisely because he's right and I want the opposite. I want the coarser texture- I never strain, and I want the variation in hue.
I do rub out the paint (but not thoroughly) with scotch brite pads. Then I typically apply oil or oil tinted with natural earth pigments and/or pigmented wax to create a slightly grimier surface. I have also applied shellac on top of it and "pounced in" pigment, building up rougher areas.
Milk paint left alone doesn't look at all like period furniture to me, originally milk painted or otherwise.
I think you don't have to use authentic paints to get an authentic look. The key is to know what look you are truly after and know what old paint looks like if that's what you are after. But just a word of caution from the museum community- people don't know what furniture looked like originally and if they did, they probably wouldn't like it. To make something "sympathetic" to the past requires some amount of faux finishing. This is standard operating procedure at the U.S.'s finest museums. They very typically distress items as I have described above.
Once you get into the business of applying oil to milk paint, I think what you are left with natural, coarse ground pigments and oil, are chemically simialr to old paint with casein substituting for white lead. Lead overs a smooth texture and great opacity when you use enough of it. But either through wear or frugality, period paints do have the "in the wood" look that Gretchen mentioned.
Adam
"I don't know jack about the Shakers. My guess is that David is right; they used oil based paints. I think the Shakers tried to be as self sufficient as possible, so it's likely they made their own paint. Lots of folks did in those days."
Adam/Alan - one note about where I got this information. Obviously, I can't assert that the Shakers never used milk paints, nor that they always mixed their own - I may be old, but I certainly wasn't there in the 19th century.
The comment about mixing their own oil-based paints has to do with surviving recipes in the Shaker documents, analysis of existing pieces that appear to have their original finish on them, and period practice.
One of the recipes for Shaker paint is documented in a recent book on the Shakers - Unfortunately, I can't remember which one of them it was printed in - Probably in The Encyclopedia of Shaker Furniture, but it may also be in "The Shakers: A Craftsman's Notebook". I'll try to find my books and look it up. This recipe, by the way, was the white lead boiled in linseed oil, strained, pigment and more (solid) white powdered lead added.
Analysis of existing pieces is something I've pulled together from reading through peer-reviewed journals at the local University Library. An example of the kind of writing that's in these journals can be found at the on-line Wooden Artifact Group archive. Generally speaking, these articles are high-science technical papers, where a surface has been examined by microscopy, mass-spectrometry and sometimes staining with biotech reagents to determine whether components are of animal/vegetable origin. However, remember that not every piece of Shaker furniture has been examined (not by a long shot), practices differed from community to community depending on availability of local materials and the knowledge base within the community, and a heck of a lot of Shaker pieces do not retain their original finish.
The "period practice" comment has to do with the way paint was made and sold in the 19th century, particularly in the early 19th century. Today, we go to the store and buy a gallon of gloss latex and expect it to be uniform in consistency and flow properties from can to can, to mix into a completely homogenous liquid after we mix it/shake it up, and to be stable for years when stored.
However, early 19th century and 18th century paints were not stable - mixtures of ground white lead, pigements, and linseed oils would be unsuitable for use as a paint after they'd been together for a short while - perhaps as little as a few days. The white lead will react with, and precipitate some of the pigments, the linseed oil will separate out and refuse to re-suspend the pigments, and in some cases, the addition of the pigment will interfere with the adhesion properties of the paint after a few days.
For this reason, paints were generally sold as ingredients, with the end-user mixing them into the liquid to be applied to the side of a house or piece of furniture. This is why "paint mills", which are hand-cranked devices for crushing and grinding pigments, are often found at old tool auctions.
So - In the final analysis, one cannot correctly conclude that Shaker's never used milk paint, nor that certain types of Shaker articles like storage boxes will be "inauthentic" if finished with milk paint. What Adam states is quite correct - often, you are trying to duplicate the aged feel of 19th century paint, not the exact chemical composition. For example, on characteristic of Shaker painted furniture is that they were often colored with a highly diluted paint mixture used as a "wash" - that would be fairly easy to duplicate with diluted milk paint, for example.
Adam and David,
You have given me more information than I could have imagined. Thank you!!!!
My original idea was to paint some Shaker oval boxes I have made out of maple and pine to look as close as reasonably possible to some of the colors/hues of original painted Shaker boxes. NOT using dangerous, toxic products as they may have. My intent was if it was milk paint and not toxic, then I wanted to learn how. Based on what you have said, and based on rethinking some of what I have read, is that it was not milk paint that they used, but rather oil based paints of their own making, which was common at the time and toxic.
By the way, I have made a couple hundred plus boxes out of cherry wood that I finished with a satin General Finishes oil/urethane, then a couple coats of paste wax.
I expected to get "this brand is better than that brand" of today's water based milk paint when I asked my first question/s in this thread. Instead, you, and some others also, provided a ton of historical information and gave me what I needed to know, even if I wasn't asking the question right.
I will keep reading this in case you, or anyone else, adds more information, but I think I'll be trying to decide which of today's safer products I'll be using.
Alan - planesaw
Edited 6/2/2009 9:08 pm ET by Planesaw
Again, just my thought--and in particular with relation to what you are actually making. I think milk paint is too "thick" for your boxes. I love them when they are clear finished as you have said you have done. When colored, I think the finish is almost a pigmented shellac--very thin, as to almost to be only one coat. Gorgeous stuff that. Matching the colors would be the most important part.Gretchen
Gretchen,
Thank you for your information. Glad to hear from your wisdom and experience also.
You are correct that I would not want it to be lumpy or bumpy. The painted Shaker boxes I have only seen in photos don't seem to be that way. I would readily assume whatever I use will be thin. My main intent has been to get reasonable close to the color or hue, and with a fine finish.
Alan - planesaw
Alan - One thing I didn't think about regarding what you want to do with this finish - milk paint is water-based (obviously). Since the sides of a Shaker oval box are quite thin, I wonder what the water in the milk paint is going to do to the shape.
The last thing I finished with milk paint was a miniature 6-board chest made of heart eastern white pine. The lid is a solid plank, with battens screwed to the underside on the two ends. I put the paint on before I attached them so that I could paint all sides of the battens.
The result of putting the milk paint on in a very thin coat on the upper surface of the top is that the whole thing cupped away from the painted surface by about 1/2" total deflection over a 13" width. That wasn't actually a fatal error, though, as overnight drying returned the top to its original, flat condition, at which point I just screwed the battens to the outside ends and continued with the finish schedule (in this case, one more coat of thinned soldier blue milk paint followed by light sanding with a synthetic steel wool, followed by a coat of boiled linseed oil).
I just note this because I've never made a shaker oval box, nor finished one with a water-based finish, and don't know if the expansion in the outer surface will cause permanent problems. You might want to test just one, preferably with a defect, before painting a lot of them in one session.
d --
Good point about testing one. I'll have to do that. My guess is that it won't create a problem. I'll let you know. May be a couple weeks before I get to it.
Alan
Wow, dankeller gave you some real good insight I think.
But I want to emphasize that the boxes I have seen, the finish is glass smooth and THIN. Even an oil base paint layer would be "thick" unless thinned a LOT. Just my observation of boxes I absolutely love and treasure when I see them. The repros I have seen are the same.Gretchen
Gretchen,
Yep. Thin. Almost stain. Will let you know what I come up with.
Alan
That's why I suggested tinted shellac. Good luck. ;o)Gretchen
What do I tint it with?
Alan
There are some actual shaker paint recipes in the back of a book I have; "Shaker Furniture, The Craftsmanship of an American Communal Sect" by Edward Deming Andrews & Faith Andrews, Dover Publications, 1964. It was originally published in 1937. I have no idea where I got it but there is an appendix in the back with several recipes, all look rather toxic using lead, sulphuric acid, linseed oil and other stuff I've never heard of. It also says they would rub out the finish with a pumice stone and wax. "Much of the furniture made in the two decades before the civil war had a thin finish of varnish colored with the customary stains." It also says their laws forbade the use of varnish on oval or "nice boxes"!
geppetto,
Thanks. I just got the same book and started reading it at breakfast this morning. I'll be eager to take a look at the part you are describing.
Per earlier posts, I won't be using the toxic stuff. Just something close to the color and appearance.
Alan - planesaw
"Just something close to the color and appearance."That would be MILK PAINT!! It more closely matches old paint than anything else. Why bother mixing your own and going to all that trouble when you can just buy some powder, add some water and presto chango bingo bango it's done!
G
Well said. Color and finish appeal is what draws some folks to a windsor chair. I have had people in my shop making such a fuss about the finish and not seeing the turnings, the carved hands and the shaped seat. They go on about the finish the entire time. Go figure.
The debate on finishing methods is interesting. It keeps us all thinking and adjusting. On a visit to Colonial Wburg, I was talking to one of the guys using "brick dust" to fill in the grain on mahogany. It was ground up very fine and served the purpose I imagine rotten stone or pumice would serve?? For me it was just too red for my taste. My work with pieces from the 18th century are always troubled with the love they had for red tones. I am conflicted with this in furniture pieces and the rifles I build. I tend to favor browns and the softer yellow tones. Years ago I was using potassium permagenate-sp to color my mahogany work. After I tried samples I just couldn't get used to the deep reds so I got the green dyes out and worked back to browns I could settle on. I just couldn't get comfortable with the red even if it looked like the older stuff. When customers insisted on the red tones... red it was. I scratched my head and left my signature off the bottom of the pine drawers. Its an interesting compromise I guess.
d
You should be able to tint with oil colors. And for heavens' sake, forget about the "toxic stuff". Whatta crock.
BUT do what you want. I'm gone.Gretchen
Gretchen,
Am I misreading you? I did say in #46 I wasn't using anything toxic. Have said it several times earlier also. Learning what the Shakers used is simply a quest of historic knowledge. Using something safe by today's standards is simply another form of being smart -- I think.
Alan - planesaw
the "toxic stuff" isn't really available any more so it is a moot point. Didn't mean to be so abrupt. My apologies. ;o)Gretchen
Gretchen,
No problem. One of the downsides of email / text is one can't read faces, hear voice tone or inflection, etc. All the things necessary to understand if someone is ticked off, angry, smiling, or just being very brief. One routinely hears that 90% of communication is visual and hearing. The words are only about 10%.
Alan
Alan - One thing I can't remember whether I've mentioned in this thread, but if you're interested in period colorants (other than paint pigments, though they carry that too), you can get "the real deal" from Olde Mill Cabinet Shoppe. They're aren't too many outlets that I can think of where you can purchase Sandarac and copal/benzoin.
Another supplier for any type of pigment or resin is Kremer Pigment in New York; http://www.kremerpigments.com
It's one block from a school I taught at and I'd run over there whenever I could. It has anything you could think of in small or large quantities. Couple that with a good selection of brushes and books and I felt like a kid in a candy store.
Olde Mill is not that far away. I'll have to go see her and see what all she has to say.
Thanks,
Alan
Alan - I've used a lot of milkpaint for pine and maple pieces. Some observations (note that this applies to the "Old Fashioned" brand - I've not used other brands):
1) It's important to allow about 6 hours for all (most) of the pigment, casien and other components to dissolve. Stir it about every hour or so. You can mix it up and use it right away, but the result is considerably smoother if you let it set for a day or so.
2) Milk paint (dissolved) will keep for about 3 days if refrigerated and covered. If not, throw it out after 24 hours or so.
3) The powdered milk paint will not keep on the shelf without some humidity protection (after the package is opened, obviously). I keep mine in sealed mason jars. The opened packages are good for at least a year if kept this way.
4) If you intend to top-coat the milk paint with linseed oil, be aware that treatment will substantially darken the color. Shellac can also be used, and will also darken the color somewhat, but not as much as the oil.
5) If you intend to top-coat the milk paint with an oil, oil/varnish or film finish, it's to your advantage to lightly sand the milk paint after its dry with an artificial steel wool (looks like a Scoth Brite pad, but smaller grit size - I use the "very fine" grit, gray pads). If you don't do this, there's a lot of little snags in the dried milkpaint that will remove little tufts of whatever cloth you're using, and it's really hard to get those little tufts back off of the piece.
6) You can mix different colors of milk paint to make your own, custom hue. But if you want to do this, strain each solution before you mix it. Otherwise, the larger particles of undissolved pigment can be discernable as a different color on the dried piece, particularly after sanding.
7) If you're using a single-color milk paint, straining is unnecessary, because you're still going to have to lightly sand the rough surface after it dries anyway if you want to top coat it.
My $0.02
Alan,
I have found that before Doctors (MDs that is) make a diagnosis, they try to get information about what the problem really is. You have gotten a good deal of diagnoses, but I don't recall any of the respondents asking you more about your issue.
For example,
1) are you trying to be true to the "old ways, the old styles, the old formulas, etc". I believe that is the track that Adam was taking.
2) are you trying to make something that is your wife would like. I gave the set of Quaker oval boxes that I made to my wife. She uses them for her sewing needs.
So about SWMBO - At Woodcraft, I get questions about milk paint every week. The store carries the dry powder and the stuff that General Finishes makes, which they call milk paint, but which someone pointed out, really isn't.
It turns out, that in my experience, the customers rarely grieve over a difficult decision. It is much like "pro-Life, pro-choice", everybody has VERY STRONG FEELINGS. Some want to do it the old way. They want the real stuff. They buy the bag of dry power. Others look at the boards with wood painted with the two brands, and really like the stuff with a bit of a sheen, which is called Milk Paint but is more like the paint they are used to.
So one day, when my SWMBO said that she wanted me to paint a cabinet with milk paint, I asked her to come look at both types and see which she likes best, the real stuff or the fake stuff.
Her decision was immediate and without equivocation. She disliked the flat paint, and loved the fake stuff. She said she really didn't care if it was not the original stuff. She wanted the Brick Red.
I bought the Brick Red General Finishes fake milk paint, and she loves the cabinet.
So I guess the right conclusion should be based on what the real issues at hand really are. My issue was to please SWMBO. I have learned how to make her happy (most of the time). :-)
Hope you solve your problem, whatever it is. Of the many people I have seen buy the old fashioned milk paint, I have heard no complaints. And some people buy lots of it. Then again, I have never head any complaints about the fake stuff.
Have fun.
Mel
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Anyone know anything about the quality of the various milk paint brands? Would appreciate any good wisdom.
Thanks,
Alan - planesaw
I have used milk paints quite a bit over the years - primarily to finish out the windsor chairs I have built. One of the finishes I use is the Curtis Buchanan technique of using a thinned out black coat over a typical mix of red milk paint. I follow each layer with rubbing as others mentioned with scotchbrite pads to get things a bit smoother in the end. As another person mentioned - this is probably not a very authentic finish but it looks a little like older paint??
Purpose for writing: I used Old Fashioned Milk Paint for years and I like some of their colors a whole bunch. Of all the colors, I use black in the largest volume. A few years back, I was seeing white particles in the finish. It looked like tiny chalk particles in the top coat. I called OF Milk Paint and they put me on hold and came back and gave me some "cock and bull" story about never hearing this and I must be seeing things. OK I'm seeing white spots and my customer is wondering if I put sand in the paint but I am seeing things??
Another source Real Milk Paint(in PA) was my other supplier. I called them and ordered some black and told them of my frustration. The guy who mixed the paint was on the phone. He told me he would send down some paint he just mixed up using a finer micron screen for me to try. No charge. If the paint was to my satisfaction send along the 10 bucks if not please call and he would continue to fine tune the black paint. He had heard of troubles of this sort with some of the darker colors.
I have been using Real Milk Paint products since that experience and I have found them to be very prompt on orders and willing to work with you if you have questions about their paints.
Maybe your complaint to Old Fashioned was headed after all, as I just used some of their black on the legs of this bench and had no issues (white spots of otherwise). No doubt Real sounds like it has great customer service.
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Samson
Funny thing about the episode with the white particles in the black mix- I took a chance and paid to send the bag back to Old Fashioned with a letter enclosed. Never heard from them again. I still have the sample boards I painted to see if it happened only when I applied it over the red base coat or if it showed up when I painted it on the clean pine. It happened in both cases.
Who knows if I got a bad batch or maybe they changed the mix?? I'm not here to say OF makes bad milk paint I just had trouble with the black mix and they weren't very responsive to my line of questions.
Oh well -- sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield.
dan
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