I am interested in purchasing a Wagner HVLP conversion gun for approx $129 or a Apollo HVLP true conversion gun for approx $249. Is it worth the extra money to get the Apollo. I don’t mind paying for extra quality I just want to make sure the “quality” is their.
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Replies
I don't know much about the Apollo but the Wagner is pretty darn good for the price.
However I think I would get a Astro which is a Sata knockoff and sells for around $75. Everybody that's bought one loves it. Mind you, this is coming from a guy who uses a $500 Walcom Geo and now kind of wishes he would of went with the Astro HVLP.
I will say that the Walcom really, really works good, It's the best gun I've ever used.
Check out http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/
They have lots of useful information, and if you still can't find it give 'em a call and explain what you are trying to do - they will match the gun to the current and predicted uses, as well as set you up with everything else you need.
Are you sure you want a system that operates with your existing compressor? If so, does your compressor have sufficient guts (cfm's) to handle a spray set up?
The stand alone HVLP units are very slick, and completely portable.
I did'nt want to spend the money for a turbine and I read where they have a tendency to blow hot air. I will be sparying mostly NC Laq., not a good combo. I bought a cheap Harbor Freight HVLP gun and it was fair. I was told that these are pretty much disposable guns. I wanted to get a Higher quality gun that will last. My A/C puts out 11 CFM suffietent for the two guns I posted. The Apollo has all interranl stainless steal parts. I know the Wagner has a stailess steel needle.
I think you may have picked up some misinformation somewhere along the way. The small amount of heat generated by the turbine in no way affects the sprayed finish. I have sprayed huge quantities of NC lacquer through my gun with nary a problem. I have met a lot of people who are tempted by the notion of a HVLP system, then buy a cheap set-up, only to end up dissatisfied with it. There are quite a number of turbine systems of good quality priced around the $500 level -- and I'm sure I'll get some argument on this point, but I think that's about what you have to spend in order to get consistently good results.
Many early 1 and 2-stage HVLP turbines did create a great deal of hot air. The longer they ran the more retarder you had to add to the nitro lacquer to prevent excessive flash-off. I still have a 20-year old CAP Spray turbine that would heat the gun handle to the point that it was to hot to comfortably hold. I sometimes use this turbine for thinner material on very cold days
Newer 3 and 4 stage turbines have all but eliminated the heat problem although less expensive 1 and 2-stage units still sold produce sufficient heat to require periodic adjustments of a retarder.
Doug
Edited 3/19/2005 10:53 am ET by Doug
On the lituature I was reading it appeared that a high quality HVLP convesion gun is just as good as a turbine HVLP w/o the cost. And I already have a compressor. Thanks for the info I will check out the Turbines. Thanks everyone
FWIW.
I have the Wagner conversion gun and a pressure pot. I also bought the the additional tips. I have been able to spray everything from laquer to latex. All with good results. My compressor is an industrial upright by Speedair. The Specs are Free Air Flow @ 90 PSI 5.7 CFM, Free Air Flow @ 125 PSI 4.9 CFM, Maximum Pressure 135 PSI, Tank Capacity 26 Gallons. It doesn't have a problem keeping up.
Hi, I'm Len and I'm a Toolaholic...
The first HVLP guns I ever saw on the market were "conversion" guns, and the vast majority of the HVLP guns used in industry run off compressors, so that might tell you something.
I have owned two turbine setups that sold for around $1000 each, and I sold them because I wasn't at all happy with their performance. There are turbine setups available that some people are pleased with, but no turbine I have ever used can give the performance and versatility of a compressor gun, especially for the money involved.
I can't speak about the Wagner and Apollo guns because I haven't used them. I can, however, recommend several guns that I have used (I own most of them), that will work fine with your compressor, and that will give professional quality performance.
Starting at the lowest price, the Porter-Cable PSH-1 gravity HVLP gun sells for around $80, uses about 8 CFM. maximim, and pleases every pro finisher I have talked to who uses it.
Astro Pneumatic makes a gravity gun that sells for $80, uses about 10 CFM max, and gets recommended by a lot of pro finishers. You can also get their pressure feed gun for $82, add a CA Technologies pressurized cup and regulator for $83, and for $165 you'll have a rig that gives you professional performance, uses 8 CFM max, and is ready to hook up to a remote pressure pot whenever you want to. They also have a siphon feed cup gun for $120.
For a little more than what you are thinking about paying for the Wagner, you could have two Astro guns: one gravity feed, and one pressurized cup gun- best of both worlds.
Moving up in price, a Binks Mach 1 with pressurized cup from CA technologies will set you back about $380. It is an industrial quality gun and if you buy it with the 92 / 92P air cap and fluid tip will give you great performance with all clear finsihes and very low air consumption. If you choose the 94 / 94P combination, you will be able to spray up to 9 oz. per minute of medium viscosity material, which is truly production speed
At the top of them all as far as my experience goes, is the Asturo Eco. For about $475 you can get what I think is the best gun on the market. It works great and uses only 7 CFM at less tha 40 PSI. It will run all day off a 3hp hand carried compressor, and is my favorite gun of all.
Those are just the guns that I personally know about that will give you professional performace with your compressor. There are no doubt others on the market, but the P-C or the Astro might be all you ever need or want.
Michael R
Edit: I just looked at the Wagner gun. It looks a lot like the guns that come with their Capspray turbine setups, which are the ones I owned (8100 and 9100). If it is the same gun, you can do a lot better. They work, but there are a lot better ones for the money, in my opinion. I especially hate that "click" air cap. With most any other gun you just turn down the fan control to get a round pattern or anything in between. I found it impossible to get a decent narrow fan with the gun. To be fair, they might have corrected that by now.
Edited 3/19/2005 1:27 pm ET by Woodwiz
A wealth of info that I can use. I sure apprieciate everyone's time
I have the Capspray turbine set-up you mention (9100). I bought it maybe 10 years ago, and have used it to spray just about every finish it is possible to spray. I think this thing is terrific, and I am curious to know why you disliked it. BTW, we should also mention that if portability is an issue (e.g. for job site work), then the turbine units are the only way to go.
I think this thing is terrific, and I am curious to know why you disliked it.
BTW, we should also mention that if portability is an issue (e.g. for job site work), then the turbine units are the only way to go.
I use my Binks and Asturo guns on the job site all the time. All it takes is a little PC side-stack compressor that I can carry in one hand, or if I am going to be on the job a few days, I roll my 120 volt 25 gallon portable compressor into the truck. I can leave the compressor out in clean air and all I have to drag around is my air hose. With a regulator at the gun, hose length is pretty much unlimited.
The capspray works OK, I guess, but it suffers badly in comparison with the other guns I have. First off, the 4 stage unit only delivers less than 5 PSI to the gun with the trigger pulled (7 PSI static, I measured), so it doesn't atomize heavy materials very well. By the way, the best I could measure, it only delivers about 15 CFM through the gun. That 80 and 100 CFM stuff is bunk - the only way you get close to those figures is with no hose on the turbine.
Second, they are SLOW. I'm used to spraying about 60 to 80 cabinet doors an hour (one side), or topcoating a dresser in no more than 3 minutes. Takes at least 3 times as long with the Capspray.
Third, they just don't have the flexibility. I can spray anything from light bodied dye stains in a 1/2" pattern up to 9 oz per minute of unthinned conversion varnish in a 15 inch pattern with one gun, without changing fluid tips or air caps.
Fourth, to me, they are hard to clean and don't feel at all responsive in my hand.
I have loaned my guns to a couple of Capspray users, and they converted almost immediately. They were happy until they tried something better. Just like I was with Mom's cooking before I went to France.........
To each his own. If you are happy withwhat you have, that's great.
That's just been my experience, and I figure if you can get better performance for $150 and already have a compressor, why spend all the extra money?
Michael R
" You can also get their pressure feed gun for $82, add a CA Technologies pressurized cup and regulator for $83, and for $165 you'll have a rig that gives you professional performance, uses 8 CFM max, and is ready to hook up to a remote pressure pot whenever you want to. They also have a siphon feed cup gun for $120."Can you give me more details, model # etc...Tony
This is one place you can get what I had in mind:
http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/Astro/index.htm
The gun is third from the bottom on the left side. With a pressurized cup, it's model no. 4003-13PT-1.
You might want to shop around, but that's pretty representative. Certainly a very good value for the money
Mchael R.
thank you Michael
That is a terrific summary. Thank you.
I've got a Husky HVLP conversion gun from Home Depot. Bought it a few months ago and have been satisfied with it. The cost was about $90. I use it on my HF compressor -- the one they routinely advertise for $169.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
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