Can anyone tell me if there is a router bit (bits) available that will allow me to make the rail cut for an entry door and not limit my tenon length? I want to make an entry door to my shop, but am not sure how to make the stile and rail cuts with the router bits I can find and still have an adequate mortise and tanon joint. I’m limited to what I can do to the router table, as I do not have a shaper.
Please give me a suggestion.
Thanks, John.
Replies
John,
Freud will be offering a new router bit set for exactly that application in 1-3/8" and 1-3/4" stock. It should be available within the next couple of months if you can wait. AFAIK, it's the first router bit set able to make tenons of unlimited length.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Edited 11/16/2005 4:03 pm ET by CharlesM
Don,You are correct that those bits work in 1-3/8" stock and that they can produce long tenons (we offer comparable bits) but since they are designed for window sashes they can't make a profile on both sides and they make a rabbet for the glass that isn't deep enough or appropriate for a raised panel.Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Edited 11/17/2005 9:16 am ET by CharlesM
Thanks everyone for the responses. I have seen that frued is about to release this new bit, but I find it hard to belive there are no others available. can anyone tell me what profiles the new Frued sets will be available in and a release date?
Are there sets manufactured for shapers? How is it that door manufactures get their profiles and tenons.
Thanks again, John
John,
The first set we will offer will be a classical bead profile similar to the EC274. I don't have an exact date but they are in production now and should be available for purchase in about 8 weeks. More profiles will follow later next year.
As you can see from the link above these are available for shapers but it takes a special cutter with a recess for the nut to make long tenons. In door manufacturing factories this is typically done on double end tenoners.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Charles
Thanks, I only had a quick glance at the page in CMT's catalog & looked at its ability to work with variable tenon lengths. What variation in door thickness can your new cutter handle. We typically use 35mm (1 3/8") for internal doors & 40mm (1 9/16") for exterior, so arange would be advantageous.
Don
Don,The total range is 1-3/8" to 1-3/4" and they will handle anything in between so they will work great for 35mm and 40mm.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
I believe most of the comments so far have ignored the fact that you want to use integrated tenons on the rails.
IOW you would need a cope cutting bit that had no constraint on top of the bit so that the tenon could be longer than 1/2"
If a router bit set like that exists for entry doors then quit reading here and link me to the set.
IMO you might consider doing the door different and it is not hard to do with the machinery you have at your disposal.
First size all your stock. I would use 5 1/8" wide stiles a 5 1/8" head a 8 7/8" bottom rail and a 5 " middle rail. If you intend to do a 4 or 6 panel door then the mullions should be about 3" wide
Make the stiles 2" longer than the door height ( you need this trust me) and make the rails finish X" longer for the desired tenon length on each side .
Example : 3' 0" door the stiles are 10 " net width with the rails 26"= the length of the tenon on each side. That is the net width .
Once you have all you frame stock prepared for width set up your table saw with a dado blade to cut a 1/2" x1/2" groove in the proper places for in all the parts. You have to do the middle on both sides but not the top and bottom rails. It is very important that you cut the groove down the center of the stock for a later step so I generally cut the groove from both sides. It can be a bit larger than 1/2" wide as the panel thickness can be adjusted when you shape the raise into them.
After you have the grooves all cut set up your miter gauge and make the tongues on the rails. use a sacrifical fence and an over width dado set up so you can use the fence for a stop. This is not a through cut so you just have to make sure the depth and width are accurate and tight. Use a scrap block of wood to do this setup or sneak up on the thickness and width till you get it right. Proceed to make all the tongue cuts. you can cut them intwo passes with a tenon jig or by just setting up the two cuts accutately and trimming against the fence
At this point you should have a door that is 1/4" over width and now you need to lay out the door to make sure that it is indeed 1/4" too wide. If so take the rails off and cut just shy of the amount you need to take off to make the stiles paralell with the inside and then joint off the remainder.
Next, lay out the rails to to create the height of the door
I start with the middle rail by marking the center of the piece at 2 1/2" and then set the rail on the stile so that there is about 37" from the bottom of the stile to the center of the middle rail. This is a standard layout and can be changed or modified if it needs to be for the type of door you create but generally is the norm.
now take the bottom rail and make a mark at 8 1/2" and from the center of the middle rail measure down 36 " line up the two marks and this is the position of the bottom rail.
The top rail goes in at the difference of the door height minus 36" on a 6' 8" door the rail is set at 41 1/2" from the center of the middle rail. Mark a line at 41 1/2" on the stile and at 5" on the top rail. A gross measurement should leave the door at 80 1/2" Which is correct for the procedure. Slight mistakes should be able to be cut off after you glue the door for width.
Ok the dry fit door should tell you the panel widths and lengths depending on how many panels you have allow for the mullions in a 4 or six panel door, and make the panels. BTW on a 1 3/4" thick door use two panels back to back It creates a much nicer and secure door.
When you raise them remember that you still have to add decrative sticking to the rails and stiles ( I am getting to your question ).After you have the panels cut you can glue the door together If you want deeper mortise and tenons on the rails and stiles use a router and a fence to create pocket in both pieces and add a floating tenon. I use dowels personally and never had a failure in well over 5000 doors but this is your choice.
After the door is glued up cut off the 1/8" at the top of the door and then measure the length and cut the bottom. If you happen to miss a bit in construction of the door this allow you to have a way to compensate for a small error
Ah the part you have been waiting for the sticking
Because of the large size of a set of router bits to create a door are I cut sticking and apply it after the door is built This does to positive things IMHO it saves you a ton of cash and allows you to choose a profile that you may not otherwise see on a door. I flatten and plane enough wide stock to make all the sticking for both sides of the door but leave the stock as wide and long as I can after you get the stock planed to the thickness you want/ need rout the profile into the board on both edges and then set up the TS and rip off the sticking I set the fence so the sticking is between the fence and the board so that my sticking all ends up the same I just create a push stick that allows me to push the last bit through supporting the sticking as well as the board.
Once you have it all made all you have left to do is miter in all the pieces and glue and brad nail them to the door over the panels and into the rail/stiles . Putty the nail holes and sand, sand, sand
This is a long process and every step is very important to the final product I always look at an exterior door as one of the more challanging pieces to create because even the smallest imperfection sticks out like a sore thumb and it has to look good on both sides .
One more note to consider if you use this approach . If you choose to raise your panels and install them into the grooves created by the T&G arond the perimeter you need to add the depth of the groove to the panel less your clearance for movement . It also requires that the raising of the panel allow for the extra material used in the groove + the width of the sticking
IOW if you want a 2" reveal on the raise, you have to add about 7/8" to the width of the raise to make it look right . this is using a 1/2" deep groove and a 3/8" sticking width + 1/8" for movement.
Joe
"If a router bit set like that exists for entry doors then quit reading here and link me to the set."This is what the new sets we are introducing do. Your solution is also a great one. Potential drawbacks I see are that the tongue for the raised panel has to be really long (because of the added depth introduced by the applied moulding) so you can't use traditional raised panel router bits and it could be tricky to match the grain of the applied moulding to the rest of the door.Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Edited 11/21/2005 8:53 am ET by CharlesM
:quote Potential drawbacks I see are that the tongue for the raised panel has to be really longyes they tend to get long, the answer in many cases is to build the door with stub tenonws as I suggested fill the grooves in and then apply the molding This brings evrything back into a simpler RP profile.
Grain mathcing can be tricky but overcome by just making the parts to the door wider up front, routing the sticking first cutting it off then making the T&G for the door. I have not seen too many times that grain matching was necessary if stock is matched reasonably well to where it cannot be done as suggested though.Looking forward to seeing the set when it comes out.Joe
Thanks, JPGrout for the excellent discription of how you make a door. this helps me alot in my journy to make the perfect door for my wood shop.
John.
I believe most of the comments so far have ignored the fact that you want to use integrated tenons on the rails.
IOW you would need a cope cutting bit that had no constraint on top of the bit so that the tenon could be longer than 1/2"
If a router bit set like that exists for entry doors then quit reading here and link me to the set.
Freud has a cope bit that comes apart so you can make any length of tenon that you want.
Here is the link:
http://freudtools.com/p-208-two-piece-entry-interior-doorbr-router-bit-set.aspx
Wow, someone was digging for info. Freud has since introduced that bit Charles mentioned they were planning to make.
I was referred to this site because I want to make a solid wood door for my parents for Christmas.In June, I found a Freud flyer in my local Woodcraft store while I was there picking up new tools for my school shop. I picked up the flyer because it talked about their box joint blade set and I was considering getting it. I did not look at the inside of the flyer until this week where I found the information on their door bits.
I Isuggest you might want to do some reading on the woodweb also. Tons of info there about that subject, but they are industrial/production types, so it is not a place for us novices to post. If it is an Interior door it is a lot easier project, but if it is an exterior, there is a lot of things that can trip you up. You have a lot of reading and research. Its a fun project.
Good luck
A DVD video of the door making process is included with our Entry and Interior Door making sets as well as a poster with full instructions. I will happily email you the pdf file of the instructions if you send me a message with your email address.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
FWIW, one way shops coped with coping tenons of any/infinite length for the past 80 years or more is to use a stub spindle on the shaper. These were standard on all the old Rockwell/early Delta shapers from the '40's on. In pre-router days, the shaper was the weapon of choice since it had power, fences, guards, and methods of templating so you could even do curved cope and stick. The stub spindle can also be used to form the tenons with square shoulder cutters. Another trick is to raise panels of infinite width by having a hip cutter mounted and raising or lowering the bit and moving the fences in or out. Daggum - just like a router, only better. The stub spindle accepted 1/2" bore, 3 wing, HSS cutters that were on the shelf, and received a countersunk machine screw to hold the cutter on the spindle. The upper edges of the 3 wings were ground fairly close to being a cutting edge. A little squint and spark on the grinder, and the upper surface was then used to final size the tenon while it was being coped. I can say that I even spent some time making matched cope and stick sets with these 3 wing cutters for special one-off projects. The cutters were not pretty, and it took some time, but the results were excellent. These cutters are still available if you look around. The basic setup does require two passes per tenon, assuming there are no offsets or differential sticking. The stub spindle was set up as a package with bearing and pulley, so it easily slipped into the spindle casting, and was ready to go. Tooling could even be pre-mounted. Decades before HSK. We still use this set-up on some profiles, though most of our work is now done with larger diameter discs that make all the cuts in one go. I spent several years making the stub spindle set-ups every 2-3 days, and could always cope with the copes as a result. Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Dave, I had seen the stub spindle in Lonnie Birds Shaper book, but I couldnt find one and none of the industrial guys I talked to seem to keen on welding one up. These seem a great option for those who dont mind a few extra passes and flipping the stock. How do you go about finding one today or do you build your own?
Brad
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