Lemieux wood entry door company says glass cannot be replaced.
I have a 7 year-old wood entry door with a large single dual insulated window. This summer, foggy streaks began appearing between the glass and I want to install new glass. It was made by Lemieux, who I understood to be a manufacturer of high quality doors. The warranty on glass was 5 years. The company is now owned by Masonite.
I contacted the company to see if there were any special procedures for removing the glass (thinking they might use a special bedding compound or proprietary points). I presumed that removal of the coped inside stops first, then the other two stops would provide access to the unit.
To my surprise, customer service told me the door cannot be repaired, but I persisted and emailed her the order/model numbers and asked for a shop drawing or other professional advice. See their response below.
Has anyone encountered this type of door construction?
“I had reached out to our wood door customer service and they had informed me that they do not recommend replacing insulted glass on a door since the glass goes further into the door and in order to remove it you have to cut away at the wood.”
Replies
Can"t say for sure without seeing it but, in general, it is a wood door. The glass was put in somehow. So, there is a way to take it out. True, depending on how it was done, it might be difficult and a lot of trouble (costly) to take it out, replace it, and then repair the damage. Replacement glass alone is not cheap. Just yesterday, I was quoted $80 to replace a broken 20"x30" double pane in an aluminum frame that I took to the glass company. So, you might get some estimates from some glass companies. It might be cheaper to buy a new door. On the other hand, my house has all double pane glass in windows and doors and they all get foggy from time to time. We've replace some of them only to have them fog up again in a few years. I've about decided to ignore them when they fog up and accept the fact that they will do it periodically.
Thanks for the feedback. I priced the replacement window online and think the $150 price (incl shipping) is reasonable. I'd rather not replace the door as it took a long time to get it hung in the jambs of our old house. Interesting that your fogginess comes and goes. We've had lots of rain and humidity here in Ohio and maybe the fog is seasonal.
I still find it hard to believe that the glass is captive within the rails and stiles. Before prying off a stop, I think I will drill some exploratory holes with a tiny bit to ascertain where the edge of the glass is located.
Again. I haven't seen this. So, I'm shooting in the dark. However, I have a hard time thinking that the mfr. would go to a lot of time and expense to make the installation more complicated than it needs to be. Just accept that you will probably damage the stops and need to replace some or all of them. Then just pry them off. I'm betting that you will find the edge of the glass there. However, it may be sealed in and you may need to break it to get it out. So be it. You are replacing it anyway.
Good luck.
I finally got an official response from Masonite who now owns Lemieux Doors. The glass panel is indeed mortised into the rails and stiles. I guess it's cheaper for them to produce. For the customer who paid $700 for a door that's only 7 years old and cannot be conventionally repaired due to glass failure, it's a bad deal.
Here's the sales manager's response: In response to your inquiry regarding removal of insulated glass:
We do not “stop” glaze our doors. Rather each of our components is mortised and assembled around the glass in what is known as “compression glaze. There are no individual stops to remove.
Why I was so convinced that there were stops is because of the appearance of what looked to be puttied over brad holes along the "stop" area. Upon closer exam, with the above knowledge, I'd have to say they are just nicks.
ROUTER BIT: Now that I'm going to have to route out the rails and stiles to expose the outside edges of the glass, is a straight bit set 1/16" clear of the glass the proper bit to use? I would use a utility knife to remove the final but of wood.
Thanks to all for your input.
I think that the cost of the replacement glass and the work involved, I would replace the door.
You have nothing to loose except time and labor with the understanding that, if it goes badly, you may end up having to replace the door.
I think you are on the right track with the straight bit. I think I would first make some probing cuts on each side to find the edge of the glass. Then set some straight edge guides so that you make just 1/8" cuts on each pass until you get there. Hopefully, there is not any kind of a protruding edge around the glass edge that the bit might hit. I suppose, if there is, it will likely be aluminum and should do no harm.
Only use Cardinal glass inserts. They use a proprietary edge sealing system and are able to offer a 20 years guarantee when supplying original window manufacturers. On their replacement windows, ordered through a window manufacturer, the warranty is only 5 years as they can't be sure of proper installation techniques. For example, you need to use glazing blocks (spacers) that will support both the inner and outer panes of glass. Carry and support the glass units on edge. Don't carry them flat where the bending stresses will unnecessarily stress the edge seal.
They are only slightly more than other sealed glass units. I've just received a quote to replace all the glass units in my home. I have just been quoted $69.81 CAD+tax (US $52) for a 21" x 37" double pane, low E272, argon filled unit, with internal grilles.
A regular glass company will not be able to get these for you. You'll have to phone around. I was able to get quotes from both a window installation company and a local (fairly large) lumber/hardware company that also sells and installs complete windows.
The technique you suggest sounds good. Best of luck.
Bingo5,
I bought mahogany arched french doors back in 2011. The glass in all the panes fogged up in less than 4 years. Finally tracked down the company Lemieux and told them about it. Talked to a man named Martial Depault. He agreed to warranty the doors but I questioned the glass used. He assured me that it was a fluke that my glass fogged up. Well he lied. The replacement doors have also fogged up. The company does not know how to make glass panes. I too was told you could not replace the panes. Think I'll live with fogged up glass for a while. Changing out the doors was not easy.
For Bingo5's and Soddy's situation, I'd be tempted to just cut a slightly bigger opening and install new, common size, with stops. Might take test drilling.
I may resort to that. We don't have code enforcement, and I can make the trim and stops. Might be possible to pay for hardened glass.
I need to "replace" double-pane 44"w x 67"h window, only 12" above floor that has lost its seal (Maybe recent earthquake or just age). It isn't "hardened" glass, therefore not code, not safe. Sidelights on each side, one of which opens but not legal egress. House built 1978, probably original windows. Our favorite view.
That size pane is totally outside my skill-set or physical capability, now.
Not sure what rebuilding everything on that wall would cost ($$$$), new windows, but then other side and front of room, would differ glaringly, especially trim.
It's obvious Masonite and predessor never had any interest in making their product fixable. Kiss them goodbye.
Are newer insulated windows any better at keeping seals?
4 ,5 or 7 years is pretty fast for failure on double pane glass but eventually it all fails. A 5 year guarantee on something that is as permanent as a door to a house is ridiculous. To manufacture a glass panel door in that way and then present it as a selling point! That's a joke! Maybe houses aren't made to last anymore...could be. My father built his house 72,73 years ago. It still stands and is the newest house in that whole town. The next newest house is probably 30 years older than the house I grew up in. I would bet that at least 90 percent of the houses in that town have their original doors!
If I was going to try and replace the glass in that door I would try to see if I could take the entire door apart. Once I decided that that is impossible I'd probably drop a brick through the glass. It's almost undoubtedly tempered and Id end up with a million popcorn size pieces of glass. Then I would try and fish the aluminum parting strips out of the slot. I'd probably find that the aluminum with little bits of glass that I couldn't get out is fastened tight in there with some kind of elastomeric caulk. So I'd try heat. I'm avoiding using a router until I at least have all the glass removed. Finally I would rout out the opening, order a new tempered double pane replacement panel, if it's not some standard size then it would have to be made and that can take a few days or weeks even, caulk it in real good with something like the stuff that I swore at all day trying to remove and secure it with stops. This of course would be a miracle if you could do it all in one day so your going to have to close up that hole some how. In 4, 5, or 7 years the glass will be much easier to replace. Or..... you can spend all that time bad mouthing on the internet the company that made that door and putting up scathing reviews until the company offers to replace that door to shut you up! Sometimes a company stumbles onto a dissatisfied customer that doesn't have anything better to do than cause the company misery. Letters to the editor of architectural magazines, contractor associations.....you could make it your life's work.... and it might just work.. or you could go buy a better door!
Are newer double paned windows better..?.... no. A few years ago Anderson was offering a double paned window that was fused glass to glass..like a thermos bottle. Sounded good but they discontinued it. Must have had problems. Here, where I live is considered an urban/wildland interface zone and all new construction and or remodels they are requiring " urban wildland interface "windows. No wooden sashes all exterior windows are tempered, not just the window right next to the door or by the shower like before but ALL windows and they are TRIPLE glazed. This is really cool because the new window that you paid dramatically more for can fail twice not just once like the old windows! Sounds better doesn't it? All the windows in my house are made right here in my shop and they're single pane glass ,they're energy efficient cause I heat with wood and I own a sweater. Glass is one of the most durable things man ever invented. If someone doesn't throw a ball through it it'll last maybe forever. Gets a little ripply in a few hundred years is all. A 5 year or even 20 year guarantee on a glass window! What's that?
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