Hi Everybody, Just finished enclosing my router table and wanted your opinion and suggestions for improvement.
I use a 2.5″ hose behind the bit (going to a 5 gallon shop vac) and have a 4′ hose from a Jet 1.5 HP collector (1100C) going in the back. I reduced the 4″ to a 2.5″ to increase velocity. A friend suggested I put a blast gate in the side and have it open a tiny bit for inflow. I didn’t do that because the box assembly (Veritas with Veritas steel top) was origianlly open in front and back. I installed doors with foam insulation around the edges on the open sides and placed the 4″ on the back door just below router level.
There is a 1/16th inch gap between the table top and the box assembly and by moving the whole assembly forward or backward I can create a gap of up to several inches at the bottom. Very long story (sorry) short. How much inflow is optimum?
Test cuts with walnut were great but I would like to know so I don’t tax the collectors too much.
The 1.5 HP router installed now is temporary until I get the Milwaukee 3.5 HP back from the shop for repair.
Again, sorry about the long winded (hee hee) DC question.
Brian
Edited 1/4/2008 10:04 pm ET by BriMcG
Replies
The basic rule of thumb would be that the cross-sectional area of the air inlets should be of the same ballpark as the cross-sectional area of the exhaust. But that's only a starting point; the optimum will likely be a bit smaller (it will also vary with different shapes and sizes of bits).
Don't worry about taxing the DC; it really doesn't care that much.
-Steve
Great. I think I'm in that ballpark.
Thx for the reply.
Brian
BriMcG,
How do you like that Dust Dog? I'm about to buy one or the Steel City equivalent. I've got a bunch of gift certificates to Woodcraft and their selection is limited. Do you have the remote control?
My shop is quite small and just about everything is mobile (needs to be) so ai am not anticipating much piping. Currently, the dust on my wife's stored things in the basement is thicker than my workbench top..sigh...
Hi BG, So far so good. I actually only got it hooked up recently but bottom line is..it sucks! Hee Hee. I made the mistake of using a plastic can when I added the second stage which I strongly suggest. The can collapses a bit so I am going to make some sort of brace for it rather then go out and buy a metal can. It's inexpensive to do and after the first time you hear a small chunk of wood hit the impeller you will be convinced. The impellers are plastic which is fine with me. There are pros and cons to plastic versus steel. I've heard horror stories about small metal items such as screws going in through a floor sweep and hitting the steel, sparking and BANG. Don't know about that but I'm liking the 1100C (cartridge model). Easy to clean the filter and bag changes are supposed to be simple. there is a flexible ring the you wrap the opening of the bag in and slip it up inside and it stays in place while you tighten the clamp. The only time I have had to do it was installing the original bag. Very easy.
So at this point I would buy another one tomorrow.
Take care, Brian
Brian -
A couple of tips for when you get ready to empty the bag on your DC:
Empty the bag at ~3/4 full. The reason will be obvious when you remove the bag. - lol
Spin the filter cleaning paddles several times (10-12) before you remove the filter. Even after you do that, you'll be amazed at the amount of fine dust still in it.
Lift the filter slowly and carefully. Have someplace close by to sit it down upside down
Removing that snap ring isn't as easy as it may seem - it fits very tightly. I've been using a 6" wonder bar style tool to pry it loose. I had to file the edges so I didn't put a hole in the bag.
I've had my Jet 1100 with the Dust Dog filter for a couple of months and really like it, but emptying the bag and cleaning the filter is a messy job. - lol
Thanks Dave, I will print your reply and tape it to the DC.
Brian
Brian,
Dragged it home yesterday and set it up..your right, it sucks big time! I noticed Dave's comments about the 'snap ring" and that will be an issue for me with my short fat fingers, I'm thinking of attaching a thin rope to th$e circle to help pull out of the grove. Anyhow thanks for the comments.
BG -
I thought of using some kind of rope or handle to make it easier to loosen the snap ring, but couldn't figure out a way to do that without creating a leakage path for the dust/air. My mini "wonder bar" worked pretty well when I emptied it the other day, so that's what I'll be using until I can come up with something better. - lol
My 1100 replaced a Jet 650 DC and it's WAY better. Now, I can run my planer or jointer for long periods without having to stop to clear the lines. I can also forget to close a port and not have dust flying everywhere.
The band clamps on the 650 were annoying, but worked reasonably well. The snap ring on the 1100 is a PITA!
Another "issue" for me is the split impeller intake. I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be better to have a 6" intake instead of two 4" so I could run a 6" trunk with 4" drops to the tools. It would be interesting to see some data for this configuration.
Dave45,
I have not read the literature, do you need to remove the cannister when your replacing the bag? or do you just reach under with this.. http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=55-525
What about attaching a couple pieces of uctdae apetae (loop around the ring)for pulling it out?
PS. if it works I can submit the idea to FWW and win a hat or something, hence the disguise.
I find it much easier to remove the bag from the top while reaching down thru the seperator baffle. This, of course, requires that the cannister be removed. If you follow my procedure and rotate the cleaning paddles several times before removing the cannister, you'll probably find 1"-2" of fine dust on the seperator baffle. I use an old paint brush to sweep it into the dust bag - then remove the bag.
That Stanley tool is a full sized, industrial strength, wonder bar suitable for demolition of anything up to a minor castle. - lol The one I use is a mini version that I picked up in a hardware store a few years ago. I have no idea what brand it is, but it's about 5"-6" long and (used to be) painted blue. It's handy for popping trim and might handle demo of a dollhouse. I only discovered it's usefullness for removing my DC bag last week. - lol
Dave,
I will follow most of your instructions; I'll work the paddles, take of the top cannister and use an old paint brush. But if I can't find a mini wonderbar at the hardware store....it might be time to attack swmbo's cooking utensils for a look a like tool.
I use 30psi. air on my cannister filters. I no longer have any with the paddles but they are paper filters and not particularly inexpensive. I believe the paddles will cause undue wear on the paper hence my backflushing them with air.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
dgreen,
That sounds like a good idea (with the 30psi air) to clean the filter. Unfortunately, I don't have any air. Every time I go to buy a compressor something else jumps ahead of it on the list...
I know what you mean!------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Some rare earth magnets to hold the empty bag in place while you use your two hands and anyone else's available to fight the snap ring back into place helps too!! Once it gets dust onto/into the canvas cover it is a bit hard to handle.
Bruce
Edited 1/8/2008 3:26 pm ET by Wingdoctor
I started to reply that that rope deal wasn't a good idea cause of gaps but I guess it doesn't matter being where it is on the "dump" side of the system and not on the "suck" side. Guess that pretty well shows my technical jargon expertise huh? Ha Ha.
Yep, it's a good machine. Going to get the remote next. Guess the Ranger is what most people are recommending.
Now, if you haven't already, you get to go through the duct insanity. If you are like me you'll wind up with not enough of this and too much of that. Do yourself a favor and sit down and really plan it. I found my original design changing at every curve. And don't forget to ground it all.
Good luck, Brian
Hey, BG, Happy New Year! I have the Long Ranger remote on my Jet, and it has made life so much easier!! Just clip it inside my shirt pocket. It has removed the temptation to not run the DC for a little cut here, a little cut there.
One of our members mentioned that he has put a rubber ring or grommet or something around the ON button to help prevent it from getting pushed accidentally. I had that happen when I was carrying the remote in an apron pocket and leaned against a counter or whatever. Doesn't happen when in my shirt pocket.
I may have a 110V Long Ranger for sale if I convert the DC over to 220V. Haven't decided yet.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Happy New Year to you too FG,
it's been some year, Sox, Pat's, Celtics, wow..we didn't get enough time to whine about our 27" of snow in Dec...people around here have not gotten involved in the politics yet either...and that's their favorite sport.
I bought the Dust Dog without the remote..the price differential was about $100 and an after market remote goes for about $60..seemed like a no brainer to me. I also spent every nickel I had in gift cards and haven't bought any tubing or fittings yet....swmbo is watching like a hawk. It'll all work, just need to spread it a bit. I also have to figure out if I'll stay with 115 or rewire to 220, kinda depends on which spot the DC will call home.
To be honest, I have a limited amount of tolerance for this aspect of the hobby. I need to hurt wood every day, making a pretty environment for it not so much...lol
BG,
I need to hurt wood every day
Too funny! My wife saw one of my gazillion clamp glueups once and remarked, "What are you doing, torturing that wood"! She's the CFO too.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Have you decided about 220 yet? Am in the market for a Ranger. Lemme know!
Brian
Nope, not yet. My be a couple of months, as where I put the DC will depend on which table saw I get (30" v. 50"). Sorry!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Oakey doakey...there are quite a few models out there. Need to look around. Thx, B.
Somewhere buried in the archives here is a thread where I asked about the difference(s) between the Long Ranger I and II (or is it II and III?) Whatever they were, I was convinced to go with the new model.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Good enough for me. Think it's the three. Trying to decide if I'm just "feeding the pig" with one more gadget. I have to walk a whole 10' to turn it on from almost anywhere but I do the same as you..."Just this quick cut" with no DC.
B
Like I said I will probably get the Ranger but a quick question. They sell those plugs that you can plug a power tool and one or two accessories so when you turn on the power tool (TS) the accessory (DC) comes on. If I remember right Sears sells them for about 10-15 bucks. I have my router table with the small collector attached hooked up that way and it works great. Handy too when using an orbital sander and a small wetvac. Wondering if the Jet DC is too big?
Brian
"Wondering if the Jet DC is too big?" Absolutely! It's been discussed a couple of time here recently, it draws waaaayyyyyy too many amps at start-up. Better not to "go there". I had to walk fewer feet than you (only over more hoses, LOL) -- trust me, the remote is a must-have, you will love it, and your lungs will thank you!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Good enough. Ordering today. Thx
Brian, you asked if I'd seen this thread. Yep, I have now. Cool! As you know, I have the Veritas table also. I'm running my dust collection through the overhead guard on my table saw. It then splits via a Y-connector to above/below the table (2.5" for each). When I re-arrange the furniture in the shop, I'll probably go to a 4" for below the table, and keep the 2.5" above. Here are some pictures (and, since everyone asks: The hose just slips off when I go back to using the table saw, then the blade-cover hose connects up). I located the cabinet hole fairly low, wanting to pull air down and past the rounter. Works pretty well, bigger hose would be better:
View Image
View Image
View Image
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 1/5/2008 9:08 pm by forestgirl
Wow, Sweet setup. I would like to get overhead DC going too if for no other reason it would force me to use a guard which I don't (let's NOT go there...I know I should).
Just so happens I am going to get the PennState too when I do get one. Seems a bit more convienient then others I've read about.
How are the horsies doing?
Brian
"How are the horsies doing?" Welllllll......2 of the 3 I normall ride are laid up -- one with hives, some kind of allergy that's been going on for 2 months and driving both the horse and us crazy; and one with pain that the vet has yet to find the source of! Worked my ___ off today riding Ivan. New horse coming in soon, so I'm looking forward to her, and eagerly awaiting spring and a few more degrees!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm betting they will be fine soon with you guys taking care of them. Good to hear you can get out in the recent weather and ride.
Last summer my sister,nephew and I went to friends in the hills and rode all afternoon in the rain. It was awesome and we saw a couger. Well everybody ELSE did. I had my head turned in the wrong direction when he/she shot across our path. That explained why the horses were acting all skitterish previously. Boy was I sore at the end of that day! Hadn't ridden in years.
Later, B.
FG, how do you have your tablesaw dc hooked up? Is it after market or did you fab it yourself? Also, you're DC for the router, is the box connected to the underside of the table or is it just a good fit, with no real physical connection between the underside of the table and the sides of the box? I want to copy this (like I did your wall rack?!) because I have the same router setup on my Griz tablesaw...THANKS!!!Jeff
Hi, Jeff. On the tablesaw, and old Jet contractor saw, I bought one of those plastic "bottoms" with the 4" outlet molded in. It fits inside the frame, but doesn't cover the whole opening, so I had to add some plywood. For the back, I had used some foam-board to work on designing a back that would get around the motor mount, belt, etc. Never did make a plywood back, just left the foam-board in there, and remove it when I tilt the blade.
I won't be making any more improvements there (and improvements are needed!) because a cabinet saw or hybrid is on the near horizon for me.
With the Veritas table, you don't need a "connection" between the table and the frame. I modified Lee Valley's suggest method of mounting the table by using large black rubber stoppers in the corners to keep it in position. In the following picture (from several years ago) you can see 2 of the stoppers. This was in the old frame, which was mounted via hinges on the side of the old steel wings of my table saw. View Image
The "cabinet" it's in now is simply an enclosed base and legs added to the frame above. A real cabinet with drawers and such is way down the road after mobile stands are done for the miter saw and bandsaw. I don't plan to ever have the table "connected" to the base. I like the flexibility of being able to simply lift off the table, for whatever reason. Messing with the router, changing out the router, slapping the whole set-up into a portable stand in the truck bed, that kinda thing.
Click here for more pictures of the dust-cabinet. There are some ways to improve it, for sure. Most important: 4" outlet for the cabinet, instead of 2.5". If that doesn't keep it squeaky clean inside, I'd try to figure out whether it's a hole-location problem, or whether the inside needs curves instead of right-angle corners. Changing to 4" will require a different opening for air replacement too. That cabinet was made mostly during the midnight-2am time period. There was no running out to the store to get this or that, I just threw it together with what was on hand.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 1/8/2008 7:19 pm by forestgirl
Many thanks. I enjoyed the pics. I didn't look at the originals close enough, I didn't realize that the router was a cabinet add on. When I purchased my Griz 1023 last year to replace my Jet SuperSaw, I bought the version with the accessory cast iron table wing with the router insert. This allows me to use my tablesaw fence for my router and I have the wood blocks on the back side of my fence very similar to your setup. Still, I need some way to contain the sawdust when I use the router, currently it is all open, so I will be building some kind of cabinet under the table saw wing and adjacent to my tablesaw cabinet to catch most of the chips. BTW, if you're in the market for a tablesaw, I couldn't be happier with mine. I'm an ex machinist too, so when I got the saw (picked it up myself in Bellingham to save shipping) out came the indicators to ensure everything was dead on. Everything was. Very impressive. Great saw, great price. Now, out will come the Green haters...
There was a time when the 1023 would have been my top choice. That saw is really outstanding, and living near (enough) to Bellingham makes it almost irresitable! But times have changed....riviing knives and quick-release splitters are becoming available on more and more saws, and they are "must-haves" for moi. I could conceivably pass on the riving knife (we'll see, when the new Steel City comes out), but the quick-release splitter isn't negotiable for me, LOL. As are above-the-table stop adjustments (45° and 90°) and cabinet-mounted trunnions.
I've looked at the Grizzly hybrid and a couple other of their saws, but I keep getting drawn back to Steel City. I'm probably looking at a March or April purchase window, we'll see what it comes down to........
BTW, if all you need is an enclosure to corral the dust while the DC sucks it out, wonder if some rare earth magnets would hold it under there? Lee Valley has some strong boogers.
I didn't quite follow this part: "I have the wood blocks on the back side of my fence very similar to your setup."forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I can appreciate the desire for a splitter. I make my own zero clearance inserts for my table saws and I always glue a splitter in the end of the insert. Like for you, it's a mandatory accessory.I'll post a picture of my table saw fence to explain the blocks comment.As for the saws, there are so many great saws on the market these days. It's really fun to be in a position of buying one. Always an adventure. I'm sure whatever you get will serve you well...That said...the debacle of my experience with my Jet SuperSaw taught me you can NOT research this stuff TOO MUCH. That was a great saw, except for a couple of critical weak points. I was glad to sell that saw, even though by the time I did, I had fixed almost all the problems.Jeff
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