DC for table-router, couple of questions
forestgirl
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I’m boxing in the big Freud plunge router (under a table) to get some decent dust collection going. Couple of questions
- Where is the best place to locate the port? I was planning on putting it in the back, but should it be up close to the top (near the router base), or closer to the mid-line vertically??
- I’m using a 2.5″ hose hooked up to a Jet dust collector. How much air flow do I need to provide? Should I just close everything off, or does there need to be a crack here or a hole there to provide enough incoming air to keep things moving?? The enclosure is around 2 cubic feet, I think. zzzzzzz……
Thanks!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 4/8/2007 2:09 am by forestgirl
Replies
Good question. My initial thought was to put the port at the bottom. Any dust or chips too heavy to get sucked out a higher hole are otherwise just going to fall to the bottom of the box and slowly pile up. I took a look at the one that Woodpecker sells and theirs has a bottom port.
http://www.woodpeck.com/downdraft.html#103
I think you'd still want a dust hookup above the table at the fence too though. So probably some sort of Y affair with 2 hoses to get everything.
If you build it he will come.
"I think you'd still want a dust hookup above the table at the fence too though. So probably some sort of Y affair with 2 hoses to get everything." Yep, there will be one behind the fence. I have the Veritas table top and fence, and the dust chute accessory.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I agree w/ the bottom. I just don't think 2 1/2" is going to do it. I have 2 1/2" on my fence & 4" in my cabinet. You probably won't need any additional air supply w/ 2 1/2".
"I just don't think 2 1/2" is going to do it." You might be right. I'm going to give it a try for awhile though, since I already have a smaller hose. The arrangement is pretty convenient.....the router table is off the left side of the table saw, and I use a PSI overhead blade guard with a 2.5" metal "boom" to hold the guard and provide dust collection. I'm keeping the router table hose nearby with a Y-fitting that can be slipped onto that end of the boom when routing.
At any rate, this'll be better than the dust just falling on the floor. When I get to permanent rigid DC ducting, it'll be easier to go to the 4". Thanks!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Morning FG..
Agree with the others.... Y connection leading too bottom and a port just behind the cutter-head in the fence. That will get about everything your going to get!
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
FG
I have a Woodpeckers "below table' housing. It works pretty well - not perfectly. Bear in mond that to collect dust you need airflow. This means that the table insert around the bit can't be as small as you might want it. Generally not a problem, but ...
I do get some larger chips that show up in the fence port. No big deal, so I haven't bothered to attach a hose to the fence.
Frosty
"Bear in mond that to collect dust you need airflow." That's exactly why I posted the question, LOL. Don't you get alot of dust off the fence area? My situation has improved greatly just having a dust chute in back of the fence opening.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
No "dust" off the back of the fence - just a few random chips which are easy to brush into a basket, your hand etc. If I fir an insert plate 'almost' the same diameter as the bit, I get more chips. If it is an larger in diameter, then things are pretty good.Frosty
FGHere are pics of the Woodpecker's box as mounted.Frosty
Here is a setup for your consideration. I used cheap plumbing fixtures from HD for the back to hook up to the 4" flex connector.
However you must allow air in or the whole thing will try to create a partial vacuum ..hard on the DC motor and not efficient. Think of throwing a handful of sawdust into a 15MPH wind as opposed to a 4MPH wind. I found that when I drilled a large hole for the electrical cord along with the small amount of air coming in from the top of the table around the bit and down around the router the whole thing worked just fine.
Cheers,
Peter
Edited 4/8/2007 10:22 am by PeterDurand
The size of your compartment looks about the same as mine, maybe a little smaller. I can see where, with a 4" hose, you'd definitely need a little ventilation to get the airflow going. I would put mine across from the hose so the airflow would "sweep" the area. As mentioned above, may not need it with a smaller hose, we'll see. Thanks for the pics!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Peter.
I have a new router cabinet and need to set my DC up to collect from above and below.
Is your DC port solidly attached to the back of your cabinet? Have you plugged your electrical cord hole? How thick is your back panel? Mine is 1/4" but can be changed if needed.
The back panel is 3/4" plywood (baltic birch) and I epoxied the black plumbing fixtures to the hole. There is no need to plug the cord opening. In fact I made a bigger hole beside it to supply more air to get both volume and velocity for the dust. Both are needed.BTW, nice cabinet.Cheers,Peter
Edited 4/25/2007 7:42 pm by PeterDurand
Thanks for your information.
Cool
Edited 4/25/2007 8:53 pm ET by coolbreeze
I boxed my Freud plunge router in and put a 4" outlet at the bottom of the box and a 2" outlet at the fence. I am upgrading to an Oneida 2.5 HP Portable DC and will feed both from a 5" pipe. At the advice of Oneida I am replacing the 2" flex hose with 3" and then putting a reducer at the fence. A picture is attached (not the Freud router in the picture); the door just drops down when I need access to change bits, and then is pulled up and fastened when the router is in operation. I installed a recepticle box with a switch to make it easier to turn on and off.
Thanks! I'm still deciding on "drop down" vs. "hinged" on the door. That picture was huge, so I downsized it for our bandwidth-challenged members. Attached below.
Looks like you still get quite a bit of sawdust left in your cabinet. Any ideas on why??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
RE: the dust in the router table. This is a legacy from the 1/2 HP DC that I am in the process of replacing with the 2.5 hp Oneida unit (awaiting shipment). Plus, I didn't really pay too much attention to air speed vs air volume and was using 4" PVC tubing with several tight right angle bends. Additionally, I will probably put baffles in to direct the dust to the outlet; currently there is a 3/4 in lip around the outlet and dust is getting trapped there. / Al
Since seeing your post, I've re-thunk the design and am making only the front door removeable. Originally, I was going to make the right side-panel removeable also, as I sometimes go through their to set one of the plunge posts to save a setting. I tried doing this from the front, and I think with some practice I can do it. (Strong inclination toward tendinitis when I bend my wrist like that and twist, so have to develop a non-lethal technique).
I'm thinkin' some kind of baffle too, but maybe not "today." Ran out of plywood to play with. Simple door for now.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Al,
I'm relatively new to woodworking, but I'm learning a lot about the dust hazzards. I'm trying to choose between a Jet DC with a 2 micron canister (1100 CFM) or the portable Onieda cyclone. Obviously, the Onieda is a huge cost compared to the Jet, almost 3x the cost when adding in an extra 230 curcuit and shipping. I have also been thinking of the Jet DC and a Jet filter system to diversify the Dust collection. Do you have any thoughts about this, or can you tell me why you choose the Onieda? Thanks,
Jobo
Hi Jobo, I am certainly not a dust collection expert and have not yet received the Oneida Protable (clearing customs today I hope)but am pleased to tell you what I can. I agree with the cost difference statement, and it is even worse in my case being in Canada because I had to get it shipped from the States. Oneida doesn't provide free shipping of ductwork outside of the US and the order was in 2 parts (ductwork via UPS and Portable via a trucking company) so I had to pay 2 agents to clear the shipments through customs into Canada.
Like you I had been reading about the hazards of fine wood dust. I guess I was influenced by a couple of things in deciding on Oneida. The first was that their reputation seemed to be one of the best from what I was able to determine. This is not to say that Jet does not have an equally good reputation but I had not heard as much about their DC's. The second thing, and probably the deciding factor for me, was that I had access through Oneida customer service to their engineers and was able to get help on layout and duct sizing. I was very concerned that I wouldnot set things up right and not get the health benefit I was looking for. I got reasonably worried from Bill Penz's web site and Oneida was able to share with me some internal fan curve info on the Portable and provide static pressure info on various wyes, elbows and lengths of flex hose and rigid pipe so that I could gain some comfort that I was going to get the CFM that I needed at each inlet for each machine. When i again got concerned and thought, bsed on the fan curve, that I might not have the CFM I needed, one of the Oneida engineers put together an analysis and sent it to me. I compared this to the info on the Spiral Mfg's web site and it corresponded I thought.
Much of the Oneida help was pre-sales and since it appeared that their Portable and ducting would meet my needs I didn't think that it was right to take their free consulting and shop for cheaper components from someone else so I bought the Porable and ductwork from Oneida.
I will tell you that their Customer service rep (Kim) treated me extrememly well, continuing to answer my questions, and is currently offering help to clear up a miscommunication with the the customs broker I am using.
Not a terribly scientific analysis for spending this much money but if the Portable performs as well as Oneida Customer Service I will be very please.
Hi Al, Thanks for responding. Fyi, FWW has information about woodworking schools on this website. I called several East Coast schools (I live in CA) thinking instructors may teach classes about dust collection or have an opinion about their machines. Interesting, only a few individuals had an educated opinion about dust collection options. Two individuals didn't think a DC or cyclone were effective for a table saw and bandsaw, or very important for a jointer. Two individuals recomended a FEIN: one uses a FEIN for a drum sander and another for a bandsaw. Most individuals feel the length of ducting affects the CFM. I reviewed a FWW article this morning that reports that 1.5 HP collectors are effective with up to 4 feet of flexable hose. I thought this amusing when I measure the distance from my drum sander to the approximate location of DC ports, such as Jet DC. I'd need over 6 feet for the drum sander (PerformMax 22-44) and the DC would be on top of the other machines.
I'm amazed by the complexity of all this. I'm reading a book about dust collection and have a much greater appeciation about the hazzards of wood dust. Hope you found this interesting. I'd appreciate hearing about how your Onieda system works out.
JOBO
hi JOBO,
I agree that this is complicated.
As I mentioned, I wanted to determine that with the Oneida Portable I would have sufficient DC capacity at my table saw. The calculations are as follows:
You probably have learned that the CFM at your machine is affected by the static pressure of the piping etc between the cyclone and the machine (Oneida has a brief ducting tutorial on their web site). From what I could determine, I needed 700 CFM at my table saw for fine dust collection. The calaculations from Oneida showed that based on my layout (Portable with 2ft of 6" pipe, a 6x5x5 wye, 8 ft of 5" pipe, 90 deg elbow, 8 ft of 5" pipe, 5 ft of 5" flex) I would have about 3 inches of water column pressure drop between the table saw and the Portable inlet. The Portable develops 6 inches of water column pressure at 700 CFM so there is an excess of about 3 inches of pressure. I have been told that a rule of thumb is that 1.5 to 2" of excess static pressure is desirable at the tool port to clear the dust so I should be in good shape with my machine being about 20 ft from the Portable, with a couple of turns in the pipe along the way.
Hey Al, Did you get ur Onieda yet? JOBO
Yes, it arrived Friday. It assembled quite easily. I still need to do the 220v wiring and I am extending the work shop a little to make an alcove for the DC. Then there is the ductwork to instal along the floor to the machines. What with golf season and everything I imagine that it will take me the better part of the summer to get everything going again (unless we have a lot of rain days)
"I have also been thinking of the Jet DC and a Jet filter system ..." I have the Jet cannister DC of which you speak, but I'll suggest you consider the JDS for an air scrubber ("filter system"). Everything I've read indicates the JDS out-performs the other major brands out there. I have one and am not disappointed.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for the reply. I'm considering the ultra expensive Onieda or the Jet you have. I read a FWW article that estimates a 1.5 hp DC can maintain adequate DC with 4 ft of flexable hose. FWW recomends moving up to 2 hp for more flex hose. How are you using the Jet DC?
Also, I agree with your comment about the JDS. This would seem to be a good compliment to your DC system.
JOBO
Since there's too much work to be done on the walls of the garag....errr, shop....for me to mount permanent ducting, I'm still using flex hose. I have the tools huddled near the DC, with the exception of the jointer, which is about 12' (??wild guess) away. As long as the flex hose is kept to a minimum, it will work. I can go out and measure tomorrow, but (guessing again) I'd say there's 8' to the table saw, 4' to the miter saw, 10' to the planer (which gets put away when not in use), and the 12' to the jointer.
They all collect great with the possible exception of the table saw, but that's not uncommon with a contractors saw. Things improved greatly when I partially closed off the back. Still need to work on the rest of the back.
I guess the main thing is, don't run a long stretch of flex hose as your main duct and then branch off of it to your machines. You'll just lose too much in air flow. I'm thinking about throwing together a rough run of PVC down the North and West walls with 3 or 4 drops of flex hose as an intermediate step to that permanent plan that will happen "someday."
If you can afford the Oneida without giving up too many critical tools, accessories or lumber, it'd probably be the way to go (or check out Penn State, see Sarge's post on the Penn State unit he bought), cause it's more likely to keep you happy for a long time. But the Jet or a comparable unit will do the job for the usual tools.
One final note: I find that a large shop vac will collect anything my jointer coughs up, so in a pinch you could use that rather than the DC. Gotta be a big one though, with 2.5" hose.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have a full basement that I would like to put the dust collector in. What would you think of just running the duct up to and along the floor to the tools instead of up to the ceiling and then back down to the floor and into the basement? that would save about twenty feet of ducting.
Not sure I have a good picture of what you're meaning -- sounds like maybe you're putting the DC in another room? Did I miss something? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes, I guess that wasn't very plain. My shop is on the ground floor, but I have a basement that I can use for the dust collector. If I have a duct running along the floor from the machines, I could bring it over the stairway to a point directly over the dust collector without any elbows, then elbow it down to the dust collector. My concern was running the ductwork on the floor of the shop but it sounds like another contributor is doing just that, so maybe it is acceptable. I've heard some folk say, for safety sake, to not run anything along the floor that you could trip on.
Edited 5/1/2007 7:15 pm ET by tinkerer2
Morning Tink.. if I may butt in, you are not going to have a problem doing what you intend to do. Actually you are going to boost your cfm by doing so in your case.
Air moving through a pipe is not concerned with if the pipe is mounted on a ceiling.. wall or on the floor. It is concerned with how long the run is and how many turns it has to take as each will reduce "flow". As you stated you are cutting 20" by doing so and keeping turns and twist to a minimum. Two thumbs up!!
Only you know if that pipe on the floor is a safety concern. If it is routed down a wall, probably not. If it crosses major traffic patterns in your shop, then it probably is. You have to make the call on that based on where you have to route it to get to each machine. Just use common sense..
Hope that helps...
Sarge.. jt
...What Sarge said (he's so good! ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
From an engineering standpoint, your right, you need to move air in order to collect chips/dust.
A hose on your fence behind the cutter is a must. The air source for that hose is through the cutter, so it's going to pull the dust. A second hose located just under the cutter and behind the router will collect as much of the rest as possible.
Keeping in mind, you need to maintain air flow at the hose suction tip for it to do it's job. Enclosing the router will restrict airflow and reduce the collection efficiency bottom side.
Resign that your not going to collect it all. I would opt for zero air restriction on the bottom; openned cabinet. A second issue, with two hose inlets on the same main hose, is air balance between the two. Both hoses being the same size would help that issue.
One demonstration showed a hose on the enclosure bottom. Dust was pilled in the corners of the box which tells me the dust is being collected after it accumulates on the floor of the enclosure. Then that means your router is running is a dust bowl while trying to pull in cooling air, that air is saturated with dust. Not good for the router.
Food for thought.
Just curious.."the dust is being collected after it accumulates on the floor of the enclosure."Why would the dust have to settle on the bottom and then be sucked into the opening?I would draw the conclusion that the corner dust pile is where there was dead air space (no flow) there and directly above it so whatever particles found their way into that zone settled. Unless you manage to isolate the bit from the router, the router will be running in air surrounded by dust. The dust collection is to keep the stuff out of lungs. In my opinion anyway.Cheers,Peter
Why would the dust have to settle on the bottom and then be sucked into the opening?
It doesn't have too settle to the bottom before being collected! It just does, there isn't enough air flow, because of the enclosure, for the dust to be sucked into the hose when the dust is generated by the router.
My point is this. Install your pickup hose close to the router base and under the table and let that air current pull the dust into the DC.
A lot of factors dictate if this will work. It may on some set ups and not on others.
Now you have done it :-)I will have to place a temp plexi panel on the front of the enclosure and see this for myself. Will report.Cheers,Peter
I finished everything yesterday but the front panel of the box, glue drying. Have a Y coming off the overhead guard boom, 2.5" hose going to fence fitting and bottom (oh, haven't mounted the hose fitting yet). Checked the feel of the air flow with my hand. Not great, for sure. However, currently there's a 2.5" hose going from the DC about 5' to the end of the boom, and that'll be changed to 4" today. It'll be interesting to see how much that changes the air flow.
Any idea how much, percentage-wise, air flow is decreased by the presence of a Y-fitting? I'm going to put another one on the main 4" hose.
"Dust was pilled in the corners of the box which tells me the dust is being collected after it accumulates on the floor of the enclosure." Not sure I see how that is a given. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Any idea how much, percentage-wise, air flow is decreased by the presence of a Y-fitting? I'm going to put another one on the main 4" hose.
The ideal situation is a vacuum source (DC) with a given CFM and a single pickup point ( ie, The home vacuum cleaner arrangement). Efficiency will be determined by the size and length of your hose and the opening size at the pickup point. The shorter the hose the better; to small or to large a hose will also impact efficiency. To small will create pressure loss and reduced flow. To large will slow down air flow and cause your dust to drop out of the air stream; eventually clogging the ductwork.
Having said that, now add a "Y" for two pickup points. Your DC CFM has not changed, therefore, the CFM is now shared by two PU points. Compound that with differing line sizes and the efficiencies will be dramatically affected at each PU point. Now you are into an air balance situation. Add elbows and more "Y"s and pressure loss is compounded, CFM is reduced as is efficiency. Efficiency being a measure of how good a job the PU points are doing collecting dust. The capacity of the DC is at the heart of this issue. If your DC is large enough, none of this discussion is needed.
A shop wide DC system has blast gates to isolate different tool banks; ie, TS, BS, planner so that air flow can be maximized at the usage point.
I'm not trying to complicate things, just give you some insight. In a situation like this it's "Try it and see what happens". You can always make changes and try something else.
In another thread about shop DC systems, it was recommended that the OEM be contacted for assistance designing the ductwork. An excellent suggestion, but in this case, experiment.
To answer your question regarding percentages; too many factors to consider!
I'm new to this and not an expert by any means, but here's my thought. When I'm profiling the edge of a board I find that I don't need much if any dust collection in the cabinet but only at the fence. When I'm doing something like a groove I don't need any collection at the fence but only in the cabinet. How about the Y configuration spoken of but a blast gate on each leg then you would have maximum flow where it was needed. Does this make any sense to anyone?
Frank
How about the Y configuration spoken of but a blast gate on each leg then you would have maximum flow where it was needed.
Absolutely, that's a good ideal. Sometimes, depending on the cut, a fence dust collector doesn't do any good because the dust may not be able to get to the vacuum hose; so why have it. Concentrate the vacuum to where it will do the most good.
If you run the hose from the fence back to the bottom of the cabinet, and use a larger port on the cabinet to connect the dust collector, it will increase air flow through the cabinet and help some. I have been toying with the idea of running a hose from an inlet on the cabinet to the base of the router, so that it "blows" on the bit hole and pushes the dust away. And, I am trying to figure out a way to get to the controls on the motor, and supply external air to the top, (bottom when mounted in the table), of the router which is where the intake for the motor air is. The top is round, and if the speed dial didn't get covered up I would just duct tape on a dryer vent hose. I saw a new Milwaukee motor in one of the magazines recently that has the controls on an umbilical so they can be mounted externally, which would allow an external hook up for motor cooling air.
A sloping floor to help particles move to the port helps.
FG, build the table and find where the dust goes! I placed my port on the bottom of my table, but my table was double sided with two routers. I also built a port on the fence system. I will be using it this week, I'll try to send some pics. By the way, where did you get your kbody jet clamps soo cheap and do they still have them.
THANKS, LOU
Various local Rockler's are having a sale on them this month! I got mine last summer,but it looks like this sale will come up periodically.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Good afternoon FG,
I built a router table similar to "Norm's" and Bill Hyltons. I have a Jessem fence setup and used a 3"x2" PVC DWV fitting centered on the back and flush with the bottom. The O.D. of the fitting fits a 4" hose connected to 3" PVC "street elbow" (only one hub) and the I.D. of the 2" fits the shop vac hose up to the fence. I built a sloping floor (approx 2" in the front) down to the back and angled sides, all out of 1/2" mdf. The hardest part is figuring out the cutting angles to produce tight joints in the router box. And since you are removing air (mine is hooked up to cyclone dust collector, 2 HP Penn State) I drilled (3) 1 1/2" holes in the plexiglass by oak frame door just above the sloping floor. This set up removes 98 % of the chps/dust. Air also enters through a notch for the power cord and through the bit insert in the table top. Hope this helps. I would take some pics but am still trying to decide which digital camera to buy. Maybe in a couple of weeks.
Sounds great, thanks for the description. Just to get up and running, I'm not going to struggle with the slanted floor thing right now, but when you get your camera, please post pics. This router-cage is an intermediate step. The next one will be a full-fledged cabinet with drawers and all that good stuff, so I'll be interested in the inside of yours!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Good afternoon Forestgirl,
I finally bought a digital camera so here are some photo's of my router table's dust collection. Let me know if the files are too big and I will resize them.
Bruce
Bruce, the router table set-up looks gorgeous. Is the picture representative of how clean the DC keeps it or did you clean it up for the photo? / Al
Good morning Al,
Yes, I did clean it for the pics, but it really does pick up about 98% of what falls in there. The only place chips get caught is between the door and the vertical piece behind the door. The MDF is fairly smooth and the airflow sweeping across carries the chips to the port.
Cheers,
Bruce
Very handsome table, Bruce! Bet that 4" connection really clears things out!
ps....I have DSL, so files were no problem for me. Back when I was on dial-up? Might have taken awhile. :-(forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
On the clamps, Is that walk in price?
thanks Lou
Well, I was gonna say it was in-store only, but I just checked Rockler's web site, and the clamps are on sale there also! See here. Problem there, of course, is that shipping will be a bit pricey -- they're not light, LOL. But since you're getting 2 for close to the price of 1, maybe no big deal!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
One more pic to show hook up to DC.
Cheers,
Bruce
I understand the Woodpecker boxes work well. The plywood version I made ended up putting sag in my table after several months. I ended up with a heavily framed top, 2.5" DC at the fence, 4" DC at the bottom rear of the sub-cabinet. I played with a dummy version of the door (holes) till I got the airflow I wanted.
If you hang a sub-cabinet from your table, I would support it from below. Even a 1_1/8" thick table top sagged on me with a 13 pound router in it. I was using the manufacturer's provided support frame . . . not adequate.
Good luck and enjoy your router!
Nice cabinet, Glenn! I couldn't take the time to build a full-fledged cabinet, with 3 projects due by the middle of May, but simply had to get something done about DC. Here's what I came up with:
Quickie cabinet made from 2x4's and scrap plywood, pegboard. Veritas steel router table top, Veritas fence:View Image
Inside of cabinet. Could only swing a 2.5" fitting for now. Freud 3.25HP router. View Image
DC routes through the Penn State overhead guard down to the router fence and box. The hose just slips on and off the guard boom, tucks behind the router cabinet when not in use:View Image
Door is magnetic, tabs and rare earth magnets in pics below:View Image....View Image
The only thing left to do is to change the air inflow from the top of the door to the bottom -- I'll get better sweeping action by doing it that way. Works pretty good!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thank you Forestgirl,
Nice work on your "temporary" RT ! One big problem though, you made it too nice ! LOL. You might try putting two 1 1/2" dia holes in the front with the bottom of the holes 3" up from the bottom of the door and add a third hole later if you change to a 4" hose. Adding the sloping bottom and sides will greatly improve the chip removal. I used 1/2" MDF and caulked the seams with Phenoseal caulk to give the joints a radius. BTW, the 3" x 2" DWV fitting has a 3" ID and the hub has a 4" +- OD. Love that steel top. Veritas makes nice stuff.
Cheers,
Bruce
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