Hi all
I am about to enrol in a Cabinet Making course here in the UK. Hand crafted furniture 5613. Just wondering if anybody on here has done the course and provide me with any comments. I have previously taken part in a intensive CM course and got a great deal of information from it, nice to hear from anybody.
Thanks in advance
Kind regards Phil.
Replies
You're not likely to get many answers here, Datapip as this is an American based forum, and formal training as a cabinetmaker is virtually unheard of. However, luckily, or maybe not, I spotted your message, ha, ha.
I studied the old CGLI 555 pt III, back in the early '80's after many years as a working cabinetmaker, and I suspect the course must have been the forerunner of your 5613 version. What I do know is that when you qualify in about two or three years and apply for a job, your potential employer in GB will know exactly what skills you are supposed to have, and they will accord you an hourly rate according to your qualifications and experience.
The course, or at least the one I studied had various essential elements. They included such things as history, design studies and practice, business studies, wood machining, tools, and not least, design ability and craftsmanship.
If your course finishes at level 3, then you will be qualified to extend your studies up to degree level, or its equivalent(sp?.) This can be done through the CGLI system, or you could apply to continue via NVQ's and degree courses at colleges and universities.
On the other hand you could apply for a job as a cabinetmaker after your training and qualifying and you should be able to get paid according to that, and work your way up from there.
There is also the option of working your way up to the designation of Master via the CGLI system. I've never bothered to do it myself, but I guess I could work on it. I don't really feel like doing so-- I've got pretty good at whacking wood over the last thirty years, and I now give thanks for every day that those tutors from years back pushed me so hard to learn the basics. Slainte.
Edited 8/29/2003 2:31:19 AM ET by Sgian Dubh
Hi Slainte
Yes I did realize this was an American based forum. I think I posted a UK based question a few months back and you were the only who replied then, also.
Its just nice to hear from people who have gone down that road. I have found a website with a full list of the syllabus. I will be going to enroll tomorrow and meet the tutor. Hopefully it will go better than when I enrolled on a French Polishing course and the tutor didnt know how to do it. Fingers crossed got to think positive.
Have you heard of Bruce Luckhurst before Slainte. He has got a school and shop at Ashford Kent and has taught around the world. I attended a intensive foundation course with him. Before I did this I used to watch Norm and thought if only I had all those tools.After I did the course it opened my eyes to what was actually possible without all them lovely tools. Now I have a small shed/workshop a few tools nothing special but I do enjoy making the best out of the things I have. I get a lot of satisfaction out of making jigs they are so cheap and useful. Anyway thanks for your time.
Keep whacking the wood
Kind regards Phil.
Hi Phil,
We tend to follow the UK system - I called up info on C&G (mainly out of curiosity since I'd heard so much about it) and it looks as though the C&G 5613 is the parent upon which our trade course is based. It will be an intensive course - ours is 8hrs/wk x 37 weeks for three years to get the cert III qualification. Looks as though the C&G is more intensive (which isn't a bad thing).
You won't go wrong - you'll come out with trade level skills. Even the cert I (first year) will teach you a lot.
Cheers,
eddie
Hi Eddie
Yes it does sound very similar to yours over the water.
As a few people have mentioned it does depend on your tutor a great deal. I signed up for it today I start Sept 9th. Level 2 is for 2 years and level 3 is for a further year. I have allready done a few things that will contribute towards the course, will have a chat with tutor on the 9th. Are you a pupil or teacher ? have you finished the course or part through?.
Thanks for your interest
Kind regards Phil.
Hi Phil,
A big time commitment on your part!
I'm both a teacher and a pupil. I teach high school woodwork, but am more than half way through formal technical training (14 months to go!), so as a consequence, I've already done a fair bit of what we are training formally in, having had to teach myself to a point where I can teach the 15-17 year olds the basics.
Our tutors are all highly experienced, or else they don't get the job in the first place. I can't understand how your french polishing tutor had never touched the stuff before, especially if it was a C&G course - they should have weeded him out long before.
This is also the reason why I'm training formally. I'm not going to be the teacher who loses the respect of his pupils because he doesn't know what he's doing. There's lots of other ways I can lose their respect instead, but then it will be of my choosing.
Hope it goes well.
Cheers,
eddie
Phil, I've heard of Bruce Luckhurst. Well known and with a good reputation as a cabinetmaker and teacher.
Signing up for a course where the tutor is incompetent doesn't sound right somehow.
Where have you signed up for this course that you're taking? I'm just curious, and have no comment to make regarding the quality of the available studies involved.
Norm and his never ending list of tools perhaps do more harm than good. It all looks so easy in a thirty minute show. A bit of a hash-bashing, and nail it where it fits type of craftsmanship, and slap on some polish---- and where are all his elves that do the real work?
Not my kind of furniture maker at all, and I've avoided watching the show intentionally for years, simply because it's as irritating as hell. The man himself is reputed to be as likeable and personable as you can get, but the few TV programmes I've seen of his recently, really do suck, ha, ha.
That should piss off a few people nicely, and with luck, by late tomorrow morning there'll be fifteen messages telling me what an idiot I am, ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Website
Sgain
Message # 1
Who's Norm??? ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Hi Slainte
The course I have enrolled in is in Darlington start Sept 9th havent met the tutor yet. Hopefully he will be competent not as I found on my last course.................
You havent seemed to upset to many people about Norm perhaps they need a bit more bait.
Kind regards Phil.
datapip,
We're all too smart to argue with Sgian about St. Norm. Sgian thinks Norm is upside down because he wears plaid shirts instead of skirts.
In TV land there are many fictional characters doing fictional things....nothing ever cups or twists...chips or tears. I like Norm..especially when he says.."So, I made this template and now all I have to do is run my router with the template on top of the stock....I'm sitting there saying to myself, wait a minute, back up a few frames, how do you do this template stuff.....lol
Richard..... yer an.......
no..... I'm not gonna say it... but I'll stand up in Norm's defence and say that without him and his 30 min specials I wouldn't be here... woulda saved myself a small fortune in tools too.......
Watching Norm initially wetted my appetite... not so much in power tools... just woodworking generally. Watching him regularly helped me decide which tools to start out with, what the basic (in my case VERY basic) joints were... and gave me the confidence to get off my butt..... buy some stock and BUILD something..
I found Taunton's site from a link off Norm's page... and reading the posts here has taught me what can be achieved with hand tools...
Don't judge him too harshly.... there's a lot more guys like myself owe their starts to Norm....
have fun..... stay safe.....
Mike
Scotland..
Mike, you were going to say, "Richard, yer a black knifey wee ba...," and then you hesitated. I didn't get the reaction I was expecting-- didn't get one at all really. Maybe people around this forum just know me too well and won't rise to the bait I leave lieing around, ha, ha.
Oh, well. I'll have to try probing another way in another thread. Actually, if it comes down to it, the show which I disparaged has been a good source of inspiration for many new and developing (mostly) amateur woodworkers in the US. I think it was BG that said he'd been inspired by what he's seen there. That's not unusual, and it's very positive.
However, I've noticed in British based forums that the show-- shown in the UK on Discovery, I think-- has inspired questions along the lines of, "Why can't I fit a dado blade to my table saw, and what can I do to make my saw accept a dado blade," and, "Where can I get a dado blade, like Norms?" The questioners all miss the point that fitting a dado blade to a table saw has been frowned upon for decades, and for good reasons. Manufactureres simply make saws with arbors too short to accept a dado blade to comply with European safety legislation.
I hope datapip gets the training he needs in Darlington. I know nothing about the course or the college. I have a lot of catching up to do regarding current UK furniture making, training, and who's who. I've been out of the country for ten years, but I'm leaving Houston, TX., next Sunday to take up a job in the UK as a tutor of furniture subjects. I'm looking forward to the challenge. Datapips C&G reference is what caught my eye in the first place as I hold similar trade derived qualifications as opposed to a college based degree in the subject. Slainte.Website
Sgian,
Again, good luck with the move, I hope adjusting to the changes will be smooth, quick and rewarding.
I came back to Boston after 13 years in MI and IN...culturally, not anywhere near as big a move as yours. The first thing that grabbed my attention were the back of the necks of people at church on Sunday..I knew those necks...red and ruddy with deep groves...and their skin and clothes were lighter and brighter. Anyhow, over the next month what started to evolve was a deep appreciation for how Rip Van Winkle must of felt after his 20 year nap. I flet like I had this 13 year gap in me life called the Midwest....it really through me. I had to re-awaken my cultural identity and put that harness back on (so to speak). Most has been okay...but they are rather risk averse up here compared with people of the Midwest. I suspect you'll see the same contrast.
The message here is to stay out of church for the first few weeks and hang around the seedier sections of the town with cultural deviants(sp?). It'll help negate the cultural contrast with Houston...and when you do wake up..you can order a beer...lol. Anyhow, best of luck with the transition.
Edited 8/31/2003 6:36:13 AM ET by BG
BG, I don't think the move will be a huge cultural shock. I've kept very much in touch with all things British since I moved to the US-- I even get my verbal diaerrheoa published there, and I hear all the dirt via my UK editor.
I already know, for instance that my old college is closing down its furniture course because the course leader is moving to be head of another course at another college. And the bean counters decided it's too expensive to keep my old college's course going. You'd better be a subscriber to F&C to learn that snippet outside this forum, ha, ha, as it's quite likely that Fine Woodworking won't ever learn about it unless told to them by moles like me, and why would they care anyway? It's a small country a long way off.
The biggest cultural shock for me will be living in a wee English town, just 40 minutes west of London, and going to the local rugby club to get engrossed in the world cup, which starts in early October. I don't know what they'll make of this rabid Scotland supporter with the vaguely northern English accent mixed up with an Edinburgh accent, ha, ha. Slainte.Website
"Richard, yer a black knifey wee ba...," and then you hesitated.
Ohhh.. you expected me to be polite...?? HA... (j/k)
I know what you mean about the dado blade.. it's frustrating watching him do in minutes something that I know is going to take me hours with a router, with the added risk of the slightest wobble blowing the cut.. I've never understood why European manufacturers have been allowed to skip around the core of the prob.. i.e. conventional blade guards suck... a shorter arbor does nothing to improve the safety of a conventional narrow kerf blade...
Rather than lay down to that tho.... it tends to bring out the best in me... improvise, adapt.... overcome.... there's more than one way to skin a cat.... as they say...
Coming back to English beer.... mannnnn..... I wouldn't do that to a dog.... you have my deepest sympathies...
;)
stay safe.. have fun...
Mike
Scotland
Mike, I think I can handle a pint of bitter, as opposed to an 80, or a heavy. A small, but necessary cultural difference. The swing low, sweet chariot thing might get to me a bit, but I think I can work around that, that, ha, ha.
You've got me puzzled on the saw guards thing, as guarding is good on European machines as opposed to US style saws where standard saw guards are a joke at best. I'm surprised manufacturer's get away with such primitive stuff in this litigous society-- but saws are very, very, cheap.
Saws here don't even have a riving knife and crown guard worth a darn, and the channelling of dust to a port is non-existent. Table saws in the US at the weekend woodworker level are like some sort of antideluvian product from the dark ages-- I'm amazed they don't have to throw coal in the back, warm up the furnace, and make water boil before they press the start button-- anyone spot irony and sarcasm here?
Even twenty five years ago, European saws were technologically sophisticated compared to the clunkers they put up with, buy, and actually use in the US.
Now, that'll get somebody wound up nicely-- surely? Slainte.Website
Richard
<NOT getting into the English beer other than to say that the doc thinks I’ll make a full recovery….. eventually. However he thinks I may be stuck with the nervous twitch in my right eye.)
re blade guards….
I can’t comment on guard quality of professional spec Euro saws… they’re way beyond my shop capacity and budget. However, having learned lessons the hard way on the quality of saws aimed at the D.I.Y / hobby market, I feel safe in saying for the most part, they’re no different to US spec saws. Admittedly they’re fitted with guards and riving knives… after a fashion. That said, it seems few of the manufacturers are familiar with the term “fit for purpose”….
Take my own saw for example. At the time I bought it I’d zero hands on experience, zero formal training and very little understanding for what made for a good and safe saw. I found a bench-top model with a fairly powerful motor rating, came with a 10” blade, left tilt and adjustable height. Price wasn’t going to break the bank, so I bought it. The standard fence survived the first cut. It’s been permanently removed since, filed under “who they kidding.??” Fine adjustment required careful tapping with the business end of a 4lb mash hammer. The ummmmm…. guard… was designed in such a way that as it tried to ride up and over the workpiece, it bound on the riving knife causing it to either buckle into the blade or jam the workpiece mid cut. The throat plate is a masterpiece. Designed to be a good 1/16” lower than the surrounding table ensuring that small pieces submarine into it. Thin offcuts frequently slipped between the left of the plate and the blade, snagging in the dust collection cowl mounted under the blade in such a way that they bounced around just enough to catch the back of the blade, launching themselves back out in the general direction of the operator. On one memorable occasion the offcut was the perfect size to not only launch itself, but it took the throat plate with it too. Did I mention that it was an extremely brittle injection moulded plastic insert?
Dust collection is ummmmm…… well….. read “disperse liberally”. Using the manufacturers 11/2” dust port lets you collect maybe 20% of the mess.
Before I used it for the second time, I built a rolling cabinet for it, giving me a table area of approx 60x60”. The fence is now a 62” length of 4x2x1/4” aluminium box section. I never could figure why the supplied riving knife came with a 10 degree list to port. Aesthetics maybe….?? Dust collection has improved slightly through liberal use of duct tape around the underside of the table. I’ve given up on the guard, resorting to frequent use of very long push sticks.
The thing that really worries me is that this total lack of concern for users health and safety seems to be an industry wide thing, my saw isn’t unique. I only wish it were. Having spent a fair amount of time over the last 2 years browsing for a replacement, it’s becoming more obvious that if I want useability AND safety, I’m looking at the better part of $2000 for a new saw. Anything less and you’re taking your life in your hands… literally….
That saw sounds like a bit of a nightmare Mike. I don't believe anything much more than a poor saw can be bought for less than about US$2000, or about £1,200. I see all the discussions here and elsewhere on the benefits of Jet, over Grizzly, over Delta, but I'd guess that none of those machines rank any higher than about second or third division in the general world of table saws.
Sure, there are cheap saws, but they tend to be worth only what they cost, and no more. Nobody that I've ever come across gets away without paying a heavy premium for quality one way or another. Either their work suffers, or they invest several hundreds of dollars more in time and materials in the tool after the initial purchase just to make it work something like half ersed decent, ha, ha.. Slainte. Website
Richard....
I totally agree re getting what you pay for.... For me, the frustrating part is knowing that someone in the US in a similar position to myself has access to a bewildering choice of after-market items to upgrade fences, blade guards, splitters etc. Here by contrast, that after-market Simply doesn't exist.
For now, I'm sticking with my box section fence... but I'm nae beat yet.. Like I said... improvise, adapt and overcome...
Stay safe.... have fun..
Mike
Scotland
Mike, Fine WoodWorking issue #109 pages 88-90 explains how to build a fence for tablesaws. Bob Dodge from the old Badger Pond built one that he and his father in law, a professional cabinet maker, thought was the best fence they ever used.
He made some modifications to it and Bob and I went back and forth with e-mails on some more possible improvements.
I have an old Delta tilting table saw that I am planning to build this fence for but I haven't yet.
If you wish I can e-mail you a copy of these improvements or I can post them here. Keep in mind that they won't make much sense unless you have the article, which of course I can't copy.
Datapip;
Good luck with your course, I'm a firm believer in formal woodworking training (I've got journeyman certifications in industrial woodworking and cabinetmaking here in Canada, and I teach a two-yer diploma program in a community college here, graduationg woodworking technicians.....some may go on to qualify as cabinetmakers, others may work in other areas like marine joinery, furniture manufacturing etc). This is what my (brand new) curriculum looks like for comparison, if you're interested.
http://www.nscc.ca/Learning_Programs/Programs/Wood_Manufacturing.asp . cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
If you wish I can e-mail you a copy of these improvements or I can post them here.
Pat.... could I take you up on that offer? I'm interested to see what goes into the design of a proper fence....
<assuming that there's a wee bit more to them than a length of box section and a pair of G-clamps
Thanks...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Below is a copy of e-mails sent between myself and Bob Dodge about a year ago concerning the article FWW had on building your own saw fence. It looks to me to be a very good fence and I plan to make one for my extra saw in the near future.
Original fence article in FWW # 109 pages 88-90
Hi Pat, It was great to hear from you,I just spent the last hour and a half trying to find that article on the rip fence,and no luck.I even tried going to Fine Woodworkings index online,no luck.But I'll be damned if that will stop a "Ponder" from finding that article.I must have at least a copy of the plan somewhere in the shop and I will get that for you as soon as possible.This was one of the most satisfying projects I have ever done ,performs amazingly,built like a battleship.My father/in/law, a retired air force pilot and teacher (woodshop) and 55 years of experience working with wood, as well as a toolmaker, was blown away by the accuracy,smoothness,and strength of the unit. I,ll describe it briefly here to give you some idea of what is involved. First, the "fence" I used was a 1"x3" steel tube with 1/8" thick mild steel that I picked up at a local shop .The cost was about $10.This fence rail was about 46" long, for really good material support as you make your cut. I would even consider going 6" longer if I were to build another.The thickness of the steel is important , as you must drill and tap some holes in the steel.The fence is fastened to a 1 foot length of 3"x3" angle iron: again 1/8" thick, and is attatched opposite to the orientation of a Biesmeyer.That is, with one face under the fence (over the rail), and one face "outside" the rail, (hanging down)instead of one face "between "the saw and the rail. The angle iron has a hole of about 1" diameter,drilled to accomodate a plunger from a Destaco inline low profile heavy duty clamp with 850 lb. clamping capacity.That clamp is fastened under the fence tube and is a dream to use, much quicker and more solid than the "Bies". This clamp can be had at Ried tool supply and costs about $27.Destaco model #608.If you don't already have their catalogue, get one. It is a gem.You'll find everything you would ever want when it comes to making things for the shop. Contact them at reidtool.com They are located in Muskegon Michigan. or you can call them at 1 800 253 0421. The fence "rail", across the front of the saw can be whatever length you want.Again 1/8" thick steel tubing, measuring 1 1/2" x 1 1/2".I used a four foot length but would have preferred a five foot length. That rail was fastened to the contractor saw using spacers that came with the saw,between the saw and the rail.Bolts were passed through the holes in the front edge of the saws's table , through the spacers, and into several "tapped" holes that I had predrilled in the rail.I also used a rail across the back of the saw.Why? I love this. The fence is completely supported by three brass setscrews.The brass slides friction free on the rails. There is one screw at the back of the fence, and two on the angle iron at the front rail.One on each side.This allows adjustability of the fence face to square it to the saw table.I placed the set screws close to the front edge of the rail to allow space along the rail for a self adhesive tape from Starrett.They usually can be had where you find replacement blades for your measuring tape.Now ,What holds the angle iron to the rail,you ask.Well,two hex head cap screws are drilled and tapped into the underside of the angle iron,at the front edge of the angle iron .Those cap screws are drawn against the rail when you set the clamp.In other words,they are located between the rail and the saw. The rail is sandwiched between those cap screws and the clamp face. The offset orientation of the cap screws on one side of the rail, and the centered pressure of the clamp on the other side of the rail,keeps the fence torqued down to the saw's table. This is a very stable setup. Now you drill two holes , one on either side of the angle iron , on the face that the clamp goes through.Insert the bolts into a nut that you thread close to the head of that bolt.Next, pass the bolt through the holes in the angle iron(non threaded holes), and put another nut on the bolt. The bolt's head is now between the rail and the angle iron.These bolts are then adjusted as close as possible to the rail,without actually touching the rail.These bolts serve to keep the fence virtually parallel at all times when you move the fence side to side. Lastly, and this was my modification to the original plan, I made a box that looks like a biesmeyer fence and fastened it to the fence(steel tube) I drilled a slightly oversized hole through the top of the "box", about ten inches from each end of the box. I drilled and tapped,corresponding holes in the steel tube fence.I slip the box over the steel tube,then using two threaded knobs,pass the knobs through the box and into the steel tube.I use washers , naturally. When I tighten the knobs the "box" is now locked to the steel fence tube.The oversized holes are to allow skew adjustment of the fence to square it to the table.In order for this to work , don't make the box to fit tight to the steel tube, allow some play for adjustment. I jointed the fence("box") to ensure flat faces , then laminated them to reduce friction.
P.S. The steel is really "dirty" when you get it. This is from the extrusion process. I cleaned it with stell wool and kerosene if I remember.This project involves no welding to avoid the possibility of distortion. The fence tube is fastened to the angle iron with four hex head cap screws.
I squared the fence tube to the angle iron and drilled, in one pass, through the top of the fence tube , through the bottom, and through the angle iron. I then tapped the angle iron to receive the hex head cap screw. The hole in the top of the fence tube must now be enlarged to allow the head of the hex head cap screw to slip through. The hole through the bottom of the fence tube, must also be enlarged to allow the threaded part of the hex head cap screw to pass through. The hex head cap screw is now slipped through the top hole in the fence, then through the bottom.,and threaded into the angle iron. I used a thin spacer between the fence tube and the angle iron. In my case, it was made of two thicknesses of a plastic bottle, probably an empty gallon of glue. I did this to allow for space under the fence tube, so that it does not rub on the saws table.
Well Pat, I hope that this long-winded piece hasn't totally discouraged you and that it is not too confusing.I'll do my best to find the article by Worth Barton, as well as my own plans and email that to you as soon as I find them.It is my pleasure to do this for you , and anytime you have a question regarding this project, please don't hesitate to contact me.
I had never even tried working with steel before doing this project. Working methodically was the key to sucess, and what a sucess it was. I just bought a brand new Ltd. Edition Unisaw, and as much as I like the Unifence, I'm going to miss that shop built fence.I will be selling that saw most likely with the fence.Good luck to you,Pat,
Regards,Bob Dodge
"Onward, through the Fog"
forSent: Wednesday, Novembe 06, 2002 10:58 PM
Subject: sliding table for Unisaw
Bob,
I hope you don't mind me contacting you directly on this. I read where you built your own tablesaw fence. I have all the Fine Woodworking issues so I did a few searches at the FWW website but I couldn't find the article you referred to. Do you remember about what year it was? Or about what issue number?
As for sliding tables, I love them. A place I worked at had two full size Altendorfs, the best. I left space in my shop for one and I have been kicking around the idea of building one myself for my Unisaw. If I come up with something I will post it on the Pond.
Thanks,
Pat S on the Pond
Hi,Pat , I am glad to hear you found the article, I just ordered a new copy from F.W.W. myself. As to the rub parts you refered to, the brass set screws work so well you really don't need to use the UHMW,but that's your call. Don't forget that the brass set screws in the angle iron serve to square the face of the fence to the saw's table.They were so easy to make and are incredibly friction free.I simply used 1/4" brass bolts which I inserted into the angle iron, cut the heads off with a hacksaw, and cut a slot for a screwdriver into the shaft of the screw. The only reason I added a rear rail to the saw was to eventually support an extension table for the saw.Also, the saw had one of those grid style cast iron tops.Also I modified the whole fence structure by making a "Biesmeyer" style box over the steel tube.I did not have to use the aluminum angle that Mr. Barton suggested.It works very well.Looked at from the end,it is "H" shaped,with the two sides of the "H" hanging down the sides of the fence's steel tube. the horizontal part of the "H" sits on top of the fence tube.I then drilled two holes through the top of the horizontal piece and into the fence tube,near each end, where I tapped the holes to receive the thread from two threaded knobs.Then I slightly enlarged the holes in the "H", which allowed just enough movement to skew the fence slightly. In order for this to work,however, the "H" must be slightly wider than the fence tube, to allow side to side movement. I'm quite sure though that Mr.Barton's fence must also work just as easily.I just had a hard time finding the aluminum angle for his version.As to the clamp that he used,he had to add a spacer between the fence tube and the clamp itself.I used Destaco model #607,and because of the slightly higher profile,it did not require the spacer.I ordered a swivel head large diameter pad plunger,about3/4" or so. Clamp has 850 lb. clamping pressure. Let me tell you, when that baby locks,it ain't going to move.Lastly, the rear fence brass set screw is used to adjust the height of the fence tube off the saw's table.This is done in conjunction with the front angle iron's set screws.Pat , I know you'll enjoy making this project,and you'll be amazed at just how well this thing works.P.S. The fence tube can also be longer than Mr.Barton's version. In fact, i was going to make a second fence tube section,without the Biesmeyer style box,just for cutting large panels.The fence would be much longer,to better support the material before and after the cut.I would probably add one foot at the front and another foot at the rear. The clamp would be in the same position relative to the angle iron.Best of luck with this Pat, and please let me know how you make out.P.P.S.I use a spray called "TopCoat" on the fence rails to further reduce friction and it is "slippery", absolutely no friction. Regards, Bob Dodge
Pat , Here's another one for you. "Micro-adjustability"! A small unit that would slide along the rail and fastened with a threaded knob,Through the top of that unit,run a threaded rod through a threaded hole and put a small knob on the outside end of the rod.That rod is now parallel to the rail and the threaded end pointing towards the fence.On top of the fence's angle iron,fasten a device,could be a simple piece of "L" bracket.Drill a hole through the bracket to accept the rod.Do not thread the bracket,allow for a slip fit.Put a pair of nuts on the threaded rod between the "L" bracket and the rail clamp, and tighten them against each other so they will lock there.Now slip the threaded rod through the "L" bracket and put another nut on the end of the rod.Nuts with plastic inserts would probably look more aesthetic.Voila, "micro-adjustability".Unlock the fence's clamp,and the micro adjuster's clamp, position the fence close to your desired position,now lock the micro adjuster's clamp to the rail.Turning the threaded knob on the micro adjuster zeroes your fence.Lock your fence and your ready to go.PS.Don't forget about paralax error when designing your cursor.Personally, I don't use one.The side of the angle iron is square to the table.I simply sight down the left face of the angle iron"s edge.Simple and accurate.As to the "H" box,I made one side higher than the other,in order to allow various jigs to slide along the high edge.You could also add "C' channel along the fence box to incorporate sliding fixtures.The possibilities are limitless.I'm so glad that you are enthusiastic about this project,and look forward to hearing from you again.Best wishes, Bob
Bob,
I like the fine adjustment of my old Delta fence. Some thoughts on your idea. The "L" bracket should probably be on the vertical face of the 1/4" angle iron saddle so it doesn't interfere with wood being cut. I see a couple of ways to fasten the fine adjustment unit, probably another "L" bracket, onto the rail while working the fine adjustment. One being a "C" clamp type of arrangement that hooks below the rail and onto the lower opposite face of the rail, low enough so it doesn't hit the attachment screws. This clamp can be threaded or for faster use another toggle clamp. What I don't like about this method is the possibility of drag while moving the fence without the fine adjustment. I think I would first try fastening the fine adjustment "L" to the rail with rare earth magnets. The 1" diameter magnets Lee Valley sells are 30 pound pull each when sandwitched between two pieces of steel. Slide is different than pull so it may take two, I would start with one but leave room for more on the "L". I am thinking an off center washer with a lever on it for release from rail. It may take two of these cam action levers to release the unit. Also to release the unit and keep it away there needs to be more movement than what your original method of threaded shaft with a nut on each side would probablly allow. I am thinking enclosed ball like the pad of a "C" clamp or the tie rod ends that are sold by race car supply houses. The tie rod would work just right. You could adjust the distance the fine adjustment threaded shaft needs to be away from the rail. The fine adjustment would just hang there when not in use. It would attach instantly and if you connected both cam action levers together it would come off with a flick. I like it!
Edited 9/3/2003 12:50:11 AM ET by Pat S
woah....... that sounds like soooooooooome fence Pat...
I doubt I could adapt it to suit my current saw; most of the right side of the table hinges down when not in use. Try as I might, I couldn't figure a way to get guide rails to hinge with the degree of accuracy that a fine tuned fence would need.
That said though, I'll try drawing the fence as you've described, try to adapt it for this saw's replacement whenever that happens....
Thanks a bunch for sharing, I really appreciate it...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Hi Pat
Thanks for your reply,
I have enrolled for the 2 year course today, it is not like your 2 year course. It involvles about 8 modules I think, not so quite hands on as your course. I think you only make a few project pieces and a lot of written. But I am sure it will be of great use. Have you finished the course and what are you doing now.
Kind regards Phil.
Sounds great Phil. I bet you are looking forward to it.
I graduated in summer of '95. I was offered the course by the unemployment dept. after being a machinist for 15 years and working for a company that went out of business. There were no machinist jobs available. I got a job the same week I graduated and worked in a custom cabinet shop for about 8 months until I got another job as a machinist which paid twice as much.
In my class we had about 4 days a week were we started in the class room for about 2 hours with the teacher explaining this or that. Plus we were required to read the textbook at home and answer questions in another matching book.
I am almost ready to open a furniture/cabinet shop on my own. That is the best thing to do. Woodworkers working for others don't get paid squat. There is no question if I will make it. The land, building and all the tools are paid for. Plus I'm divorced and my house and everything else is paid for.
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