Replies

1. 
   quatersawn | Jul 01, 2002 09:01pm | #1

   I've hung lots of doors, and I avoid beveling till I'm done mortising and drilling, for exactly the reasons you are thinking. Your jigs and templates will not sit perpindicular to the sides if you bevel first. I just do all my drilling, mortising, etc., then remove the hardware and plane the stiles by hand.  then come back and adjust for the material removed. It is imperative that all hings mortises be perpendicular. You don't need too much bevel. Just a little relief, about 1 or 2 degrees.

1. 
   pype | Jul 01, 2002 09:12pm | #2

   Mark

   Thanks for the quick reply.  Maybe you can give me an opinion on how to proceed with another part of the process.  In my house the jambs I am replacing go down past the sill.  I was planning to replace the sill also and in doing so make it go full width of the opening and then rest the new jambs on top of it.   Any reason to not do this?

   Keith

1. 
   quatersawn | Jul 01, 2002 11:23pm | #3

   Thats the way I've always done mine. Also, I wanted to mention that you certainly can mortise your stiles before you glue it up, as long as you haven't beveled first, and everything is perpindicular. I also think by installing the jambs on the top of the sill, you prevent moisture from running right down to the underlayment. Fun isn't it. Have you hung many doors?

1. 
   pype | Jul 01, 2002 11:40pm | #4

   Mark

   After I do this job I will have sucessfully hung 1 door.  I don't count the simple pre-hung door I put in my shop years ago.   These kinds of more carpentry related  jobs are not as familiar to me as furniture making is.  I've built most of the furniture in my house and also done several comissions.  I decided to make a nice new front door in order to delay the bow-front chest of drawers I told my wife I would make. 

   As long as I've got someone here who has done a lot of these I'll throw another question or two your way.  I've asked on this site before whether I should use nails or screws to attach the white oak jamb I'm making.  Someone replied that he would use jamb screws.  What are they?  Secondly, would you make this a "pre-hung" assembly and put the door in the jamb in the shop and then just put the whole thing in place?  The door alone will weigh 120 lbs. when complete.  I'm using 3 Emtek 4" ball-bearing heavy duty hinges to hang it.

   Finally, what is your preference for weather stripping.  The new door will have a glass storm door between it and the elements and I wasn't sure I even need any.

   Thanks again for the feedback,    Keith

1. 
   quatersawn | Jul 02, 2002 12:25am | #5

   I've pre- hung them, and I've dimensioned them without hanging them also. I generally install the jambs first, then the door. Simply because you never know what you will have to settle for in terms of plumb for the jamb. If you could hang a big open frame in the jamb, to mimic the movement of the door, that you could work both sides of the door and jamb, I'd say pre hang but thats not what you have. Hang the jamb as plumb and square as possible. Hang the door. Then mark it from the other side, trim to fit. A couple of things to make it a little easier too. Don't screw all the hinges down tight, leave a little play in them, it will make it easier to match the hinges while putting up the door. Once you have the pins in, then tighten them up and test fit the door in the hole, and trim to fit. As for screws or nails, I have done both. I guess I prefer nails, saves the time and trouble of pluging the screw holes. When and if you use shims to plumb the door, make sure you nail or screw through them. It will keep them in place over the years, as the door opens and closes. Weather stripping? On doors where the door stop material was part of the jamb, they make several kinds that fit into slots milled into the side of the stop. They have little barbs on them to keep them in place. If I'm adding the stop after the door is in place, which by the way will ensure a nice tight fit, and is my choice for several reasons, I use a heavy duty vinyl bulb strip that you push up against the closed door, nail or screw on, and voila, TIGHT. You should look for a nice ka thunk sound, with no vibration when you close the door if done right. Also, inside the striker plate on the jamb is a little tab. This is the final adjustment for the tightness of the door to the jamb when closed. Kind of a lot, and I'm much better at doing it than explaining it, but I'm here for another hour or so if you need.

2. 
   pype | Jul 02, 2002 12:40am | #6

   Mark

   Thanks for all the help.  Like most projects, I will know how to do it the right way after I finish this one.  BTW, this is a frame and panel Hond. Mahogany door that I will be finishing with Waterlox.  I intend to pre-finish it before hanging, but it sounds like some trimming will be inevitable and I will have to re-finish those areas. 

   Any tricks or tips about installing the new 6/4 thick white oak sill?

   Keith

3. 
   quatersawn | Jul 02, 2002 01:04am | #7

   I love white Oak. Is it going down on a subfloor or onto a cement step? I'm assuming your back east with raised foundations and sub floors. So, those I like to screw down and plug. But make sure you screw on both sides of the sill so it doesn't cup in the middle along the grain.  Thats another advantage of screwing the sill to the bottom of the jambs. If you do it just right, the threshold material will cover the pluged holes. If you think about it, most people step over the sill when entering a house, so no need for adhesive, maybe a bead of caulk for moisture. Let me know how it goes. How are you doing you door stop? Is it part of the jamb or are you going to add if after?

4. 
   pype | Jul 03, 2002 09:22pm | #8

   Mark

   Sorry it took so long to get back to you.  This is my work email (I don't have a home computer) and it's been crazy here.  

   I will be adding the stop on after the fact.  And you're a thousand or so miles off on your guess of my location.  I'm in the Dallas area.  The house is pier and beam and the sill rests on what I guess are the floor joists. (?)  So you suggest taking out the old stuff, put in the new sill first using screws, and then nail in the jamb with it setting on top of the new sill?

   This was my original plan so if you agree it sounds like I was on the right track to begin with.

   Keith

5. 
   quatersawn | Jul 03, 2002 11:26pm | #9

   Assemble the jamb and the sill in the shop. I screw the jambs into the sill from the bottom. You can dado it into the bottom as well,  if you want, but just make sure you still have room for the height of the door. Fit it into the hole, true it up, nail it off, screw in the sill,  hang the door, close the door, then press the stop up tight against the door. This will make for a nice tight fit, and the ka thunk you'll hear when you close it. Make sure the jambs are as square as possible, and as plumb. I like to use clamps to keep it flush with the drywall on the inside so my molding fits flush afterwards. I have the K body clamps, they work real well for that. When you put the inside, or hinge side stop on, leave just a whisper of space between it and the door. seems to work better than tight. Cowboy fan? I am, since 1962, Bob Hayes. I'm in mourning these days. let me know how it goes. I won't be back to this site till Monday. Have a good fourth.

6. 
   pype | Jul 10, 2002 11:51pm | #10

   Mark

   Hope you're still out there because it's time for another question.  Oh, and BTW,  I grew up a huge Cowboys fan during the early years, followed them through the 90's Super Bowl years, lost interest a few years ago, but am actually looking forward again to this season.

   Here's where I am with the door:  It is built and very beautiful, and now it's time to make the frame.  You said to build the jamb and sill in the shop, but didn't mention when and how you do the hinge moritsing.  Here is what I am considering:  1) Mortise the door and install the hinges 2) lay it on its' back (exterior side down) on some saw horses  3) check for level with winding sticks  4) lay the white oak jamb/sill assembly (using cleats to hold it square) around the door and shim everything to the right clearances  5) mark the hinge location on the jamb and then mortise.

   This seems to be a way to have a frame that fits the door, is already mortised and is ready to install.  Any serious flaws in this concept?

   PS  Should I kerf the back of this oak jamb like a store bought one would be?

   Keith

7. 
   quatersawn | Jul 11, 2002 03:30am | #12

   Hey Keith, yep, just checked in before I go home. The post just before this is right, there are a lot of different types of weather stripping, and personal preferance becomes the guide. Looks matter, ease of installation etc. all factor into it.

   Ok, the door. I've done it a couple different ways. I have simply measured on the door, layed out the hinge mortises, and cut them. Then measured on the jamb allowing for  the 1/8 inch gap at the top, cut them in and hung the door. Then trimed the door to fit. I also have used a router template guide, which can be bought just about anywhere. It nails to the side, and you use a 1/2' bit with a 5/8' inch guide bushing. This gives the perfect offset for the desired hinge. You need to buy the right template for the size hinge you are using. If the door is a standard 6'8" door, you simply lay it on the edge of the door, flush with the top, set the router depth and route each of the hinges. Then you lay the template on the jamb, and do the same thing. it automatically spaces them out the same. This template has a little 1/8" button on the top of it. It is on and butted up tight to the top of the jamb when doing the jamb mortices. The button is removed and the top of the template is flush with the top of the door when morticing the door. This is the 1/8" gap you need to keep track of for clearance. If your door is lrger, you can slide the template up or down to the desired distance from top. Always work from the top of the door, so any trimming occurs at the bottom, where it is less noticable, or covered by door shoe material.

   Your way will certainly work, you just need to be carefull to set the hinges exactly the same on both the door and jamb. But it sounds like you are craftsman enough to accomplish that. You can always shim the hinges out as a final adjustment once it is hung. The top of the top hinge is usually about 7" from the top of the door, and the bottom of the bottom hinge is about 10" from the bottom of the door. the middle hinge is centered between the two. If you have a vix bit, use it! if not, get one. It will make life much easier, make sure it is a big one, the little ones don't work properly. I usually hang all the hinges with drywall screws and then go back and one by one change them to the brass ones. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the pretty stuff. I'm going to bet you take if off a couple times to adjust it. just seems to be the way doors go. As for the relief grooves on the backside of the jamb, Not really neccassary, but if your there, and it's not to much trouble, put them on, it just might make a differance, but then again, it may not.

   Hope all this helps. I do this stuff so often I usually don't have to think about it, but trying to explain it is much harder. Let me know how it goes. By the way, most weather stripping can be added after the fact, but the ones that need a groove all the way around the inside of the jamb, will need to be groved before you assemble the jamb. Once it is in place it might be tougher to get that groove factory like. P.S. Go Cowboys!! one more thing, with doors and hinges, down moves the door up, and up moves the door down. Keep that in mind. Keep the hinge side of the door and jamb marked at all times. The last thing you want to do is mortise the wrong side of the material. Lter Keith.

8. 
   pype | Jul 11, 2002 07:02pm | #13

   Mark

   Thanks again for all the help.  I'm planning to tackle it this weekend.

   Keith

2. 
   SawdustSteve | Jul 11, 2002 12:26am | #11

   Keith.....

   Why use rubber weather-stripping that shows??  Check the 'yellow pages' for someone who does interlocking metal weatherstripping.  It works very nicely,but will not give you an air-tight seal. It will not show when the door is closed.  It is available in aluminum steel and brass.  When done properly, it is invisible when the door is closed.  There is also another system valled 'spring bronze'.  It too works very well and is available in stainless steel, brass and bronxe.  Look into it before you do anything else.  Ask to see examples of it before deciding.

   SawdustSteve      Long Island, NY  (E of NYC)