Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | May 14, 2002 10:52pm | #1

   Here's a thread that might get you started on this:

   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=1843.9

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   HeidiDad | May 14, 2002 11:20pm | #2

   It's just another tool.  If you feel the need to do a formal dwg. insturments (T-square etc.) will work just fine.  If you are going to do custom work and the client wants to see exactly  how it will look, then the 3-D will be convienient, otherwise, sketching it out will give a good aproximation.  As far as building the furniture, you shouldn't need a detailed set of prints unless someone else is doing the work.  You can spend an awful lot of time on a computer as opposed to a hand drawing for origonal work.  If you do full scale dwg.'s of your pieces for proofing or any other reason, hand drawings are tough to beat.  Learning Auto Cad isn't to difficult, depending on the software you get.  One does need to pay attention to how the computer is set up to think with its software.  One real toe tripper is that the computer will not be able to read your mind.  I know how that sounds, but I have had a lot of people fall into that trap including myself. Personally, I would have to have a lot of variations on a theme, and the need for detailed drawings that were going to be used for outsourcing before I would consider the investment of either time or money.   Good luck.

3. 
   jase | May 15, 2002 06:00am | #3

   Are you asking about CAD or AutoCAD(a brand name)? AutoCAD is an excellent tool for a multitude of design needs. But purchasing it is like buying a Powermatic tablesaw and stationary planer. There are a number of inexpensive CAD programs on the market that will work for shop drawings. I have used both. I learned CAD in the AutoCAD enviroment. I have used DeltaCad(free demo copy) for my own shop drawings and found it sufficient. Learning it is not exactly intuitive.

   Do you have your own business? If you can't build without CAD then consider this from Heidi's dad:

   >>You can spend an awful lot of time on a computer as opposed to a hand drawing for original work.

   The amount of time you spend on the computer will be triple what you estimate and that only takes away from production time.

   Free CAD software is out there. AutoCAD is available from autodesk.com for $3295.00. I haven't heard of classes for the cheap CAD programs, only for AutoCAD.

   P.S.  Autodesk make a baby CAD program called QuickCad for a lot less.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/14/2002 11:05:30 PM ET by jase

4. 
   BenchMarkPhil | May 15, 2002 02:40pm | #4

   AutoCad and even AutoCad LT is really an industrial tool, neither are cheap either. This level of software has a lot of "production" features that you will probably not find useful. That doesn't mean you couldn't use them but they are there all the time meaning you'll have to wade through them all the time too.

   All CAD software will have a steep learning curve, the more capability the software has the steeper the curve. There are a few cheap AutoCad clones out there. I would think any Autocad 12 or 14 books / tutorial CDs would apply to them (Vdraft, IntelliCad).

   There are a few other low end programs that have some training CDs as well but most of the training stuff that is out there is geared towards AutoCad.

   Once you become proficient with CAD it is an extremely powerful design tool. You have to commit yourself to learning it though otherwise you'll just never get there and it will be an impediment.

   I would suggest getting as much "demo" software as you can try out.

   I've started a series of "woodworking with CAD" articles on my web that may be of use.

   PMB

   http://benchmark.20m.com

5. 
   alexlisa | May 15, 2002 07:51pm | #5

   As an Architect, I use Autocad all day long. It is an extremely complex, absurdly expensive program with hundreds of features I rarely use. Using about 10% of it's capabilities, I can draw all my furniture projects on it and make full size prints to use as templates. I could go on all day about the pro's and con's of Autocad itself. They managed to get a large market share early on in the Architecture and Engineering professions, and are constantly adding new "features" (many of which don't work as advertised) in order to convince professionals to shell out wads of money to "upgrade" to the latest release. Like most software companies, they use the public as beta testers for each new release, letting the users find all the flaws for free, and then correcting them in the next release. It's a lot cheaper than in-house R & D. Technical help is abysmal and outrageously expensive. 

   Using full-blown Autocad for furniture design is swatting flys with a sledgehammer. Check out some of the less expensive compatible software. There must be 50 programs with 75% of the capabilities at 1/5 the cost of Autocad which are more than adequate for furniture design. One program I have used is Datacad, an excellent tool for about 1/3 of Autocad 2001. Good luck.

6. 
   DonC | May 15, 2002 08:27pm | #6

   Check out Easy CAD and Fat CAD . Do a search for Evolution Computing in Arizona. You can get a free download for 30 days. Easy CAD (2d) is all a woodworker needs. You can draw anyting you want and print it. You can't save on the download 30 day trial copy.

   I have used it for years and have previewed many. It's the best. Way better than Auto cad light.

   Don

1. 
   achome | Nov 26, 2003 04:23pm | #12

   Donc4-

   I downloaded EasyCad demo and have had trouble just getting started. I am familiar with the typical front, side, and top view method of drafting.  I would like a program that I can work with using standard dimension lumber.  For example, in designing a bookcase, I would like to create a symbol that represents plywood, e.g. 3/4" thick x 1' x 1', with the width and length dimensions changeable (e.g. a rubber band function) or just enter the dimensions.  I do not want to create a project using just lines or rectangles; I want to be able to design it based upon typically-available lumber.  I emailed tham and they told me to look at the demo which I had already done.Someone else suggested DeltaCad..I emailed them too.  Lots cheaper than easycad; not sure of capabilities.  My dad has minicad and likes it but it's expensive I think.

   Any help would be appreciated.  In the meantime, happy woodworking!

   John

1. 
   Steinmetz | Nov 26, 2003 06:02pm | #13

   John, I'm in the same boat as you. Have Auto Cad (can't get the hang of it.) Googled up Quick cad.  (Symbols and boxes)

   I'm now checking out digitizing tablets. From what I've heard, You just use a stylus and a pad that's connected to the ''Puta' and sketch away. 

   The I- Pen (Radio Shack) has a few more features and has no wires or batteries. ( Sounds intriguing?) Pehaps one of you 'KNOTHEADS' can advise me .

    Sometimes I just wan't to attach a sketch And don't want to 'Connect the Dots'  Stein.

2. 
   BenchMarkPhil | Nov 27, 2003 01:24am | #14

   What you are looking for is parametric based cad, wire frame, or solid modeling. All of these will be pretty tough to learn and some are very expensive and even more of a production tool than autocad mentioned earlier.

   With even plain-vanilla 2d cad you would be able to create symbols that would allow you to stretch them to whatever shape you want, this is a common cad technique; sometimes it is faster just to draw the thing though.

   As for digitizing tablets, one of the main reasons for these are to give the mouse more ready access to program commands. Tablets were more useful in the DOS days when the software was less gooey, I don’t think they are going to give the improvement looked for above.

   PMB

   http://benchmark.20m.com

1. 
   DennisS | Nov 27, 2003 07:00am | #15

   Phil -

   I use a Wacom cordless stylus and pad for all my CAD work. What I like about it is it's more intuitive than trying to 'draw' with a bar of soap! (grin) I've gotten pretty used to pointing around in all other GUI programs as well and much prefer it to using a mouse.

   No, it doesn't improve my designs one wit! That's up to me....

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   wundernaloud | Nov 27, 2003 10:46am | #16

   I bought Ashlar-Vellum after bailing on Auto Cad Lt. The progam I got was Graphite 6.4 and purchased it through Bridge City Tools for 600 bucks. It's 3d wire frame and is so easy to learn for how comprehensive the program is . Intuitive and forgiving. Its not a solids program. The tutorial will have you making drawings in an hour not days. Allows you to print full scale drawings by tiling sheets together, great for templates. You can download and test drive it at www ashlar-vellum.com. I bought their Drawing Board Lt for $50.00 and was amazed. That program is no longer available.It lacked 3d and being able to mirror an image which allowes you to draw just one half and then mirror that image so you have the entire piece, really handy and only takes a couple of clicks to acheive. Another thing I use it for alot is making thumbnails, design a piece select it,drag it you have two tweek,adjust, select the 2nd drag a third one over. You can produce 50 different variations in no time and thats really useful when your trying to work out a design. If you don't go through Bridge City its about a grand

7. 
   danwolfram | May 15, 2002 11:11pm | #7

   I have been using AutoCad for several years at work.  The learning curve is pretty steep, especially if you are not getting paid to learn.  I have AutoCad LT and 2000 on my work machine.  I use it a lot for woodworking projects.  Having access to a large format plotter is very convient (need a 34in radius just plot it up and you have a template!). If you really feel you have a need I would look for AutoCAD LT, it should be less than $500.  An excellent reference is the "Inside AutoCad" series of texts published by New Riders (available everywhere).  You might want to take a look at the books (Barnes and Noble or any large book store) and see what you are getting into.  Classes and software may be deductable for a small business, I don't know.  Good Luck  Dan in CT

1. 
   floman47 | May 16, 2002 02:35am | #8

    

   I thank I like this forum thing! Thanks for the grate info.  Now I have all the information I need.  It doesn’t look like I’m going to buy Auto CAD any time soon.  Going to try a cheaper one.   And I don’t think I will get rid of my T-square just yet.

    

   Thank you all again

   Jeff in so cal

    

1. 
   Piffin | May 16, 2002 04:54am | #9

   Use your search engine to look at Turbocad and Intellicad too. Both have free downloadable versions out there.

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   MichaelLomax | May 16, 2002 06:04am | #10

   I can say that the new version 8 of TurboCAD works quite well for me.  I have a background with other VERY high end CAD systems, (former Engineer), and while the learning curve for any CAD system can be a problem, TurboCAD is pretty intuitive and straight  forward. 

   I tried AutoCAD for awhile but it is set up completely different than other CAD programs that I have used and is not nearly as intuative for the average Windows user.  I can't say this holds true for AutoCAD 2000 but was certainly true for R14.

   Having been an engineer, I find CAD to be very helpful.  When I am laying out a new design, it is much easier to make changes than with pencil and paper.

   Again the learning curve is steep on any for these CAD programs. 

   Good Luck,

   lomax

1. 
   DMullins71 | May 16, 2002 06:36am | #11

     I think that TurboCAD is definatley better value for money than AutoCAD and is much easier to learn. I like to make 3D models, so i can visualise what i am planning to make. It also helps to show a client the idea on paper in different views.

    Although it took awhile to learn, the effort was well spent. I am now quite quick and now i use CAD for all my design work. The only problem i have is finding somewhere i can get large scale printing done of my plans, all my drawings are on A4 paper.