I have tried to email Tried & True thru their “contact us” question forum on their website but the message will not go to the website. So I thought I might try here. It read as follows:
I have been using T&T VO for years on cherry, letting time and sunlight darken it but now I have a project that needs to be darker than usual. I put one coat of T&T VO on a cherry stand that an existing cherry silver chest has to rest on and I now realize that no matter how long I wait or how many coats I put on the frame, it is never going to look right. The old existing chest is too dark and may not even be cherry.
My questions: Will a stain like Bartleys wiping varnish stick on top of a fully dried T&T? Is there any way to tint T&T so that I can continue with T&T alone instead? There are beautiful rays showing across the legs and my concern is that darkening them too much at this point might make them show less clearly. Removing the T&T from the legs and starting again with a stain would not be a big problem, but other parts of the stand, already coated with T&T, would be very hard to do.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Replies
Seriously good question.
An interesting question ! Rather than regurgitate a bunch of theoretical stuff I read once but have never actually tried I shall be silent, relatively, and wait in the wings.
I hope you get some good answers. This will apply to a project or two I have been putting off.
So much for being silent
You knew I couldn't pull it off anyway didn't you ?
You might consider calling Christian Becksvoort directly and ask him. I know he is a big T & T user and specializes in cherry furniture (as I am sure you know). Since he is a contributor to FWW he may be willing to let you in on the True skinny.
I have since found a phone number for theT&T company and plan to call them first thing Monday so I'll post any answers I get, if any, from them. The project in question was posted in Knots Gallery a while back when I first started it and before I put the T&T on it .
Top Coat
The Bartleys should stick to fully dried T+T but no one can guarantee it. Different finishes can crawl even when it seems they are compatible with each other. Some might do a barrier coat but that is not without risks.
You can color oil finishes with aniline powders designed for oil -
SA
Still no ans frm T&T
Have left voice mail at T&T. They don't answer and they don't return calls. Here is a pix of the problem.
Now FWW won"t let me upload.
Photo file too big?
Maybe Photobucket? I am waiting with abated breath. Sounds like a nice piece. I didn't know how to search it out quick and didn't want to page through everything at the time. Didn't there use to be a link to each person's gallery entries from each members info page ?
Tried again.
Got back late from Washington Woodworker's Guild meeting and my wife said "I just dumped out of Internet Explorer 9 and went back to 8 (or maybe it was 8 back to 7) 'cause it was causing too many problems and it just came out of beta testing and I should know better than to have gone to 9 this early and everything is working better now."
And she was right. I couldn't not get the pix posts to work. Here are several. The first one is about where things stand at the moment. It was taken last week and has been out in the sun since and is a little darker now. As you can see I took the design from Kevin Rodel's piece in Fine Woodworking 221 and made it 5x4 and 3x4 instead of 4x4 by 4x4 and changed it from a table to a silver chest stand. Always wanted to do a reverse taper leg. The feet are African Blackwood cut from pen turning blanks. I made a jig with a key the same as one you would use to cut finger joints and ripped a bunch of notched grid parts. I didn't number them in order to grid them up as they came off the board. Didn't think it was worth the effort for something you probably wouldn't see anyway.
Windows 7
I think 9 works better with windows 7 - Roc is good with MS if you have doubts.
The color looks more like it's made from a japan either toner, glaze or both. Stay away from the dye for now.
SA
toner, glaze or both
I take it you are talking about the silver chest. Now that I have posted these pix, I can't blow them up from the thumbnails. Have you been able to do that? When I click I get a clock that never stops turning. I posted the problem on "Web or Magazine Feedback" so I guess I'll get a response any month now..... I.... I mean any day now.
So I was wondering if you could tell about toner or glaze just from the little thumbnail picture.
Here is a pix of the underside with finish slop showing on the unfinished bottom. The box is at least 40 years old, the "keeper locks" and the two rails are new and attached to lock the box to the stand.
Photos
They open for me in a second or two - hope your issues work out. I was told not to update IE unless I updated Windows. I've been holding off until I get a new computer with 7 -
If I'm understanding you - tell me if this is accurate -
You want to go over a dried oil finish with a colored varnish yet not obscure the grain and make the stand the same color as the chest ?
Is that right ?
SA
That is right
I just want to get the legs and the grids to come closer to the color of the brown box so it looks more even than it does. I would like to keep seeing the rays on the legs. I would love it if someone said "it looks fine as it is" but thats not gonna happen.
I feel stupider than normal
Of coarse, I remember this stand now. I was thinking you made another one besides. Great looking silver chest. I am sure you can end up with a close match. Once they tell you how to get the new stuff to stick and what to use it may be as easy as using several layers of glaze, maybe different tones, until you are satisfied. Trick is to not go too rich in the mixing of the glaze so it is tweekable.
Steve says, very wisely, to test the finish on scrap.
Personally I really get into the research/development part of the process.
The photos enlarge fine on my end on the Mac and iPad. Is that what Westchester ment by MS? M-ac operating S-ystem ? No M-icro S-oft here I'm afraid.
Silver chest
Swen -
Your probably are not going to like what I tell you but this is how I would proceed. Given the amount of work building the stand you shouldn't think a little refinishing is too hard.
Strip and sand everything down to bare wood - so you can stain both pieces together - same color. Given the woven construction of the stand - I would go with a brown (umber) penetrating stain with retarder added for that particular stain. Not sure if you can spray but apply stain to everything and evaluate color. The dye won't hurt the grain you're worried about. If further toning is necessary you can add color to the varnish or glaze on color - but toning and glazing will hide some grain figure but the trade off is a more uniform color overall. You say the stand is a different wood then the chest - consider adjusting the strength of stain for each piece. You can get reducers for stains as well as retarders. Maybe the color needs to be stronger on the stand then the chest.
SA
Strip and sand
Westchester,
Thanks to you and the others for the input. Sounds like a lot of work. I might just make this into a table and build a new stand. I was trying to keep from refinishing the chest for sentimental reasons. Also it just occurred to me that if I went that route I could just strip the chest and match it to the legs as they are right now.
Still thinking this through. Thanks for the options.
EDIT: The problem with opening pix is gone. Wife figured out it was a problem with security software and fixed it this am.
NOTE to FWW Sorry about the snide remark. Problem is fixed. Problem was on my end. Well, not exactly on "my end" like my bum, but on my side. Not my real side, like under my shirt, but anyway it's fixed... not like you would get your cat fixed or anything like that, but this is now an ex problem if you know what I mean.
if you know what I mean.
Oh yah . . . I think I got it.
The fact that your ex wife's cat has now been fixed means that it is no longer her problem.
. . . right ?
Swenson . . . are you there ? Don't give up on me . . . Senson . . . no really . . . I will try harder . . . don't go
Hello . . .
any one . . .
It was all something about the cat right ?
Woodworking is so complex. The littlest thing can . . .
roc
There is a topic over on general discussion just waiting for you to jump on with both feet. Title is back bevels. They need your help bad. I always intorduce my wife as my first wife, it keeps her on her toes. This has worked for 43 years.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Oooooh be careful. She must be a sweet forgiving person. You are lucky.
>Back bevels<
Welllll I have gotten all burnt out again. I respond to people and spend time, quite a bit of time, putting something togeather and I don't even hear back. Not much of a discussion forum/chatroom. I feel like I should get a paycheck at this rate. Too one sided.
I quit for a while for the same reason. I miss it but heck . . .
Where things stand. I sanded off all the old finish from the old chest and it looks and sands like poplar. It's very very white and sands like a soft wood. I've been able to match the legs, as they are now, by mixing three colors of artist's oils into a small ammount of Tried & True varnish oil. I've done tests on poplar scrap and I like this color. I'm about to try using the artist oil and linseed oil, instead of the T&T, to take advantage of the dryers in the linseed oil. Because the nature of the cherry (the lower stand legs and grids) is to darken and get red with age and sunlight, and the poplar will not change in the same way, I think I will never get a lasting match and I'm ok with that and so is my client (wife).
This is still a work in progress so any more input is welcome.
Finishing
Swen -
Not sure if you used paint remover or just sanded but you accomplished task just the same. It seems you are on your way - not much more I can add that you already haven't thought out. Yes the cherry is the variable here and hopefully we're all around to see how it looks in ten years . Maybe consider using some black ebony paint and outline the drawer edge to pick up on the blackwood pads. Bring the design together....... might be an interesting accent -
SA
Blackwood and ebony paint
When external upward facing fingers were going to form a nest for the chest to sit in they were going to have blackwood tips to mirror the feet but the design changed to invisible keepers built into the underside of the chest. What with all the color matching problems I wasn't about to start painting the drawer edge even though it was an interesting idea. I am closer to what I wanted now and have put the thing together 'till after the holidays.
Some pix follow. Still a work in progress.
Nice Job
Looking good ! - we get UPS here - crate + send it whenever you're ready - silverware also -
Good Holidays,
SA
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