Replies

1. 
   RoyinMD | Feb 19, 2003 07:19am | #1

    Archy,

   The people over at the Breaktime Forum would love to answer this question. Your a member there too.

   Me. I'd make sure the wall is sealed from water and moisture and frame with 2x4 wood or metal, add your electricity, fiberglass insulation (safer than foam in the case of a fire) and drywall. Then add your topcoat of choice.

   Enjoy, Roy

1. 
   Rentedmule | Feb 19, 2003 05:37pm | #2

   What Roy said

2. 
   McLean | Feb 19, 2003 10:17pm | #6

   Great suggestion- how do I get there from here?

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 19, 2003 10:19pm | #7

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   DennisS | Feb 19, 2003 07:45pm | #3

   Archy -

   In addition to making sure the wall is well damp proofed/waterproofed against *exterior* water infiltration, be sure to address the issue of condensation due to vapor pressure from the inside condensing on the cold surface of the block from the *inside* as well. The warm air inside holds more water vapor than the cold outside air and will actually push through the wall unless you have a vapor barrier on the warm side of the insulation. When the water vapor reaches the dewpoint which _could_ be somewhere inside the wall, it condenses and is the thing of dryrot.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   McLean | Feb 19, 2003 10:14pm | #5

   Thanks for the advice. I have a B-dry water draining/proofing system in the basement, so I don't expect water INfiltration probs.. Good point about water condensation on the inside. My thoughts were to place 3/4 styrofoam DIRECTLY against the PAINTED concrete block... with construction adhesive. This would effectively be my vapor barrier. Then I would deal with studs or furring strips and rough sawn boards on top of that.

3. 
   Windwoodtrader | Feb 19, 2003 08:01pm | #4

   Hi, Archy-

   My approach would be to use metal studs. Easier to apply and lighter. You don't need the structural support of wood so why go to the trouble? Fibreglass insullation makes sense here, unless you want someone to shoot on wet cellulose which is arguably the most effective insullation. There is little advantage to foam board other than they go on quickly. Even then you will generally have gaps between the edges of the foam and the support studs. Foam is good for a cathedral ceiling where you can glue to the joists, butt the edges and use long screws to apply the sheetrock . I did this in my workshop ceiling- works fine. Don't put foam in without covering it though.

   Windy Wood

   From the Helderberg Mountains

4. 
   RW | Feb 20, 2003 06:14am | #8

   You're on the right track. Treat the wall. Furring strips, if you use them, are your nailers, so put them on before the rigid insulation. Then a vapor barrier - 6 mil plastic, for instance. If you go with studs, stand the studs away from the wall about a half inch. It keeps you from whacking into the wall anywhere there's irregularities.

   I like steel studs in a basement too, but you're going to put wood up instead of DW? Wouldn't use steel. Not unless you plan on screwing the whole thing up with DW screws.

   Go with SPF studs. You can save a little floor space with 2x3's (yeah, yeah, it only gets you an inch) but it's just a partition wall. Using studs gives you enough room to get your romex or conduit in there as well, which furring strips don't, unless you cut channels and put your electric right next to the block. Then you're playing games with shallow boxes etc etc.

   If you use studs you can also go with fiberglass insul and since you're not touching the block don't have to worry as much about moisture coming in ruining your insul. PT sill probably required in your locals (as in most) for basements. We use PL400 and a Hilti gun, but split nails, masonry nails, and Tapcons work also.

   " To the noble mind / Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind" - Wm Shakespeare, Hamlet, III,i,100

1. 
   McLean | Feb 20, 2003 05:52pm | #9

   Thanks for the suggestions. I understood everything, except what is DW?

   I was trying to get away with the system that would gobble up the least amount of space in the basement, hence the styrofoam insulation. Plus, if there was ever any possibility of moisture at all, fiberglass becomes nasty stuff, plus it does settle a bit over the years.

   I also need to watch 2 basement window frames that stick out from the concrete about 1.5"... I thought I'd try to stay under this thickness so I don't have to build them out, which I may not get away with.

   Any thoughts?

   Thanks.

1. 
   Windwoodtrader | Feb 20, 2003 06:14pm | #10

   Archy-

   DW is drywall (sheetrock.) IMHO your first consideration ought to be the wall and not the window protrusions or room size issues. You can always extend the jambs for the windows and a couple of inches won't justify shortchanging the wall. You got some good advice here. 1) vapor barrier on the wall 2) fir the wall and attach studs, my preference steel but wood certainly OK. 3) insulate with either fibreglass or cellulose 4) sheetrock alone or with panelling over. I wouldn't use paneling alone tho. Have fun!

   :-)Windy Wood

   From the Helderberg Mountains

1. 
   McLean | Feb 21, 2003 11:20pm | #12

   Thanks for pressing me on a couple of points. That's why it's helpful to ask others for help. I need to give some thought to which way to proceed. Thanks for the advice.

5. 
   piedbeauty | Feb 21, 2003 05:38am | #11

   hey archy, here in ontario basement walls are constructed as follows: felt paper[usually 15 lb] attached to block walls [although i staple it to the rim joist or floor joists to hold it in place] and allowed to run onto floor by a foot or so, then strapping or studs, whichever you prefer, minimum of r12 insulation, 6mil plastic and then gwb. if you ar considering foam i recommend iso cyanate roof insulation... it's 1/2 the price of blue sm, it has approx. 2 times the r value/inch and it is available in 4ft by 4ft sheets-less waste than 2ft by 8ft. fyi the ontario building code is probably the strictest and most comprehensive in the known universe and this is what they call for in terms of basement exterior wall framing. hope this all makes sense . good luck. 

1. 
   McLean | Feb 21, 2003 11:26pm | #13

   Thanks for the comprehensive report. Is iso cyanate roofing insltn the foamboard with aluminum type covering? Is the formaldehyde type foam nearly the same or vastly different?

   Thanks.