STL251: Assume the glue is going to fail
Mike, Anissa, and Ben discuss Patrick Sullivan's end-grain glue myths video, how a listener can hide a joint on an 18-ft. run of molding, and the pros and cons of floating tenon joinery.Question 1:
From Frank:
I keep hearing about how pointless it is to glue end-grain on dovetails, and FWW videos are no exception. I’ve seen end-grain to side-grain joints hold up to my attempts to break by hand, but a long enough fulcrum would break the joint.
Just today this video “Glue Myths: 1. End grain” by Patrick Sullivan popped up on my YouTube suggestions, and I’d like for Mike and BVD, and any or all others to watch and comment on:
I don’t think the same results are possible unless the mating surfaces are well prepared, and I don’t think I would consider end-grain-to-end-grain if I could scarf-joint or at least add a dowel. (Does that make me a science denier?)
Personally, I have always glued end grain on dovetails, for two reasons:
- Every glue surface helps
- I always hand cut, and swelling the end-grain helps any gappy baseline.
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Let’s talk about the end-grain glue joint videoby Ben Strano |
Question 2:
From Jonathan:
I’m currently working on a set of built-in shelves and fireplace surround made from walnut. The full piece will span an entire 18-foot long wall. The top of the shelves will meet the ceiling via shop-made moldings, including a 4-inch wide cove molding. My problem is that I need an 18 ft long molding. I don’t have stock that long, and it would be really unwieldy to work it even if I did. So I’m faced with making it from shorter lengths. My question is, can you recommend an end-to-end joint that is both secure and relatively invisible for this application? I’ve mainly seen people use a 45 degree overlap, which I find very difficult to make invisible.
I am a devoted listener to STL. You guys have led me to become an Unlimited subscriber, which I find myself using frequently — it’s kind of like having a book always available titled “Absolutely EVERYTHING Woodworking“.
Segments: Who knows what all that was!
Question 3:
From Zach:
First I want to say I enjoy the podcast and think everyone does an excellent job, and I look forward to new episodes.
I am planning to design and build a table for our dining room. I am fairly new to woodworking and this would be my first project with mortise and tenon joints. Then I came across the Rockler beadlock system. I was wondering if floating tenon’s provide the same strength as a traditional tenon? I have read a lot about the Festool domino and I was wondering if this was the same principal? I look forward to hearing your thoughts and keep up the great work.
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Floating-Tenon Joinery |
Every two weeks, a team of Fine Woodworking staffers answers questions from readers on Shop Talk Live, Fine Woodworking‘s biweekly podcast. Send your woodworking questions to [email protected] for consideration in the regular broadcast! Our continued existence relies upon listener support. So if you enjoy the show, be sure to leave us a five-star rating and maybe even a nice comment on our iTunes page.
Comments
It was interesting to hear the discussion about Patrick Sullivan's research on glue joints and the following suggestions for Jonathan's 18 foot run of molding. I kept hoping the two topics would come together. In the glue discussion, there was mention of splines and dominos to mechanically strengthen joints. But it never carried over to the molding discussion. It would be very easy to reinforce a joint or two in the molding with a spline or a couple of dominos or biscuits. (For a spline, use a router with a slot cutting bit.)
They can be used with a scarf joint or a butt joint. Just position the tool on the back of each molding piece and make the slots or mortises before installing the molding. Then slip the reinforcement in place along with some glue when installing the molding. Wood movement should not affect the joint, and the 18 foot run of molding is long grain which should not increase or decrease in length.
Some light sanding and, perhaps, Anissa's suggestion of painting some grain lines and the joint is nearly invisible.
As always this episode provided lots of interesting insights, along with plenty of "quirky" personal asides.
I recall an episode from some years back where folks talked about the furniture in the backgrounds of movies. You guys are doing very much the same thing now, furnishing backgrounds to provide even more interest to the conversation. Ben, your Hamilton letter press cabinet tool box is very eye-catchng, so it was really nice to hear you describe one part of your effort in designing and building it. If you do another video shop tour, it would great to hear more about that. Mike's painted/unpainted cabinet has always been, well, a curious touch. I can't say I understand the aesthetic, but it is interesting. Anissa's background changes with every episode; could this set be another loan from a famous designer?
Maybe the haikus should also include references to dogs and cats, eh? Ben, where were your chickens?
Haiku…. A (very) long time ago, in my undergraduate work I wrote Haikus. IIRC a couple even were published in the uni’s literary journal. Hate to say it, but I can’t even remember what the paraMETERS are for a haiku…. (no meter?). But then again I was never poetic enough to pay for my woodworking habit, let alone pay for food with my poetry. If only…
I’m sure this doesn’t meet the “requirements” for a haiku, but…
“I’ve cut it twice …
But it is still too short.”
Love the podcast, the website, the Unlimited membership, and honestly, looking back am mildly embarrassed to admit I do not miss not having a basic need to subscribe to “Fine Poetry” magazine. That said, now I’m going to have to look up what how my haiku was supposed to be structured. Seriously, love all you do. Haiku… uh…. Duh… When you’ve got at BA, you’re supposed to remember that forever. Jesh. But, I promise, I WILL NOT let this cut into my shop time.
Keep up the great work!
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