Yet another dust collector question.
I currently have a 15-year-old Grizzly 2 hp unit looks exactly like the ones they still sell. It has worked fine all this time. I had to replace the switch this year, it cost about $25 and Grizzly had the replacement out to me in a couple of days. I can’t complain about the service I have gotten out of this machine or the service from Grizzly.
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The DC connects to various machines with 4-inch flex duct. The main reason I want to swap out the DC is noise. The power tools are grouped in one end of a 14 by 42 ft shop. I put the DC in that end of the shop so it would have the shortest runs to the machines. I would like to move the DC to the far end of the shop away from the machines and run a trunk line to the area with the tools then branch off to the tools with blast gates to control the vacuum. I realize this is not the efficient set it up but, it would move a lot of noise away from where I am working. I am also considering building a large version of the box for shopvacs from the recent FW article and enclosing the DC to reduce noise.
I have been reading up on dust collectors including various discussions on Knots, Bill Pentzs web site and some tool tests. I have decided to go with a cyclone and metal ductwork My shop is in the basement with 8 ft ceilings so I am limited to units that are less than 8 feet tall. Generally, I am in the shop by self and run one machine at a time. I am leaning toward the Grizzly or <!—-><!—-><!—->Oneida <!—-><!—->. Some of the articles I have read indicate the Grizzly is very loud. <!—-> <!—->Oneida<!—-><!—-> clams to be quieter but that’s the marketing department talking. I don’t remember any of the tool tests measuring the noise levels. Does anyone know of any actual sound level tests of the various DC’s? Everything I have read tells me a 2 hp is enough for a single tool at a time but would it be large enough to overcome the long run? The extra run would be about 30 feet long. My biggest dust generators are the planner and a 22 inch drum sander. Would switching from flex duct to metal and going from 4 inch to 5 or 6 inch duct help with the drag enough to over come the long run? Has anyone enclosed the DC if so how and does it restrict the air flow?
Thanks for your input,
Bob T.
Replies
I just went out and measured my 3 hp. Penn State cyclone. It measured 84 db at 6 feet.
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It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
I just installed the Griz 2 HP cyclone and was very impressed with how quiet the unit was, relatively speaking. It's no louder than any of my machines with the exception of my bandsaw, and is much quieter than my planer, which is LOUD. That said, Grizzly sells a noise reduction kit consisting of a muffler that installs between the filter and the cyclone exhaust port. Maybe that would help reduce the noise you're experiencing. I bought the kit, but after hearing how relatively quiet the cyclone is, I'm not going to install it. They are not expensive, but I can not comment on how effective it is. You said you've had your cyclone for awhile and I know that Grizzly has changed the design of this unit. Maybe that's the difference. I don't know. If you do build the box to muffle the sound, let us know how it works out for you...
Jeff
I do not have a cyclone now, it is a two bagger.
Ahhh. Don't know why I assumed you had a cyclone. I guess THAT is the difference....;-)Jeff
Hi Bob,
22" drum sander. Bigger is going to be better.
Paul
Be careful with the term "bigger". How well the impeller, impeller housing and cyclone body are designed and made are critical factors and, of course, you need enough horsepower to keep the impeller spinning efficiently under load. Horsepower is a somewhat relative indication of how well a unit could perform, but the most important indicator is the CFM it can draw at the static pressure your particular shop arrangement (size and length of ducting runs, number and size of machines you'll concurrently have running, etc. Ask to see the fan curve for the DC, as that chart will show what the CFM capacity will be through the range of static pressure - from zero and on up. Some manufacturers will inadvertantly or dishonestly cite only a CFM figure and that is usually what the unit is capable of drawing without any ducting in place and no filter installed on the DC. In addition, the quality of the filter is important because it dictates the amount of airborne dust that will be returned back into the shop's atmosphere, as well as helping the unit "breathe" by allowing the air to flow efficiently through the DC. Go ahead and calculate the static pressure for your particular shop set-up, then ask the dealer to show you the fan curve. Where the SP (static pressure) crosses the CFM will tell you whether or not that particular DC will work in your shop. I would like to put in a well-deserved plug for Oneida, as I am completely satisfied with my Oneida Pro 1500 cyclone, which has been in daily use in my shop for the past 2 years. I personally know two individuals who have the Gorilla series cyclones from Oneida, as well as a community shop that has a Pro 1500 like mine and in all cases they rave about the performance and service they've received from the folks at Oneida. This is a very large subject and because it has been discussed to death on this forum and most others, you should be able to get a lot of info by doing an archival search on cyclone dust collectors.Marty from Ottawa
martyswoodworking.ca
Hi Marty,
You're absolutely right . There's no substitute for a properly designed system. The OP mentioned he had a drum sander, as do I, and I know how demanding they can be on dust collection compared to other woodworking machinery.
Dust collectors are kind of like TV's. I've never heard anyone tell me they should have gotten a smaller one:)
Paul
Dear Bob,
I have an Oneida system that is maybe eight years old now. It is a 3hp unit and it is fairly quiet. The bulk of the noise comes from the air rushing into the system. Another big plug for Oneida. Call them up, let them know what it it that you want to do and what your restrictions are and will hook you up with the correct unit. after eight years in a sometimes heated shop, I can tell you the following:
1) VERY heavy duty unit. Get a friend for install.
2) NO maintenance over the past eight years. It just does its job, no questions asked.
3) Oneida is a terrific company to work with.
http://www.oneida-air.com/newsite/index.php
Best,
John
The March issue of Wood Magazine has a good article comparing several DC's - including noise levels.
If its working fine why not just fix the noise issue.
Build a quick wall with plywood and insulate it with sound batting, add a door to change bags and voila.
If you don't like your neighbors can you put it outside. Their is really no reason dust collectors shouldn't be installed outside. If you like your neighbors put it in an insulated box and put a roof on it.
If you don't like your neighbors can you put it outside. Their is really no reason dust collectors shouldn't be installed outside. If you like your neighbors put it in an insulated box and put a roof on it.
If you live in a climate where you never heat or cool your shop you can put the DC outside. If you don't, you need a make-up air supply. There are also issues with exhaust fans located in the same area with furnaces and gas water heaters.
I agree that in a perfect world the best place for a DC would be outside; however, the world ain't perfect just yet.
Can you pinpoint where the noise is coming from? Is it air movement or motor noise or bearing?
Smoother hoses will reduce air noise, maybe new bearing will reduce rumble.
The DC could be placed in a closet with some sound padding if that's the way it runs with noise.
I have a clearvue and really like it. Were I to do it again I would probably go Oneida for the singular reason that I don't have a lot of spare time to paint / assemble / etc. For a while there the ClearVue's had a clear engineering advantage, but I've heard a few people say that the larger companies have "updated" their designs. I believe the Clearvue has the best engineering behind it backed up by emperical evidence - it also has the Bill Pentz seal of approval. Building mine was fun and engaging and it looks REALLY cool, but time is $, right? My entire system is ASTM 2729 6" down to each tool, 6" flex hose attaching to the tool itself.
The bulk of the noise comes from the impeller. You hear it principally at the air outlet (closest point to the spinning impeller). They're all damn loud, regardless of brand. They all make the same noise in the same way: that huge metal impeller slapping through the air (like the buzz sound a fan makes on high speed - any aeronautical engineers around to explain this? I remember the lecture on it two decades ago but can't for the life of me remember the specifics ...)
I put mine inside of my shop in a closest built around it. Plywood walls, 2" solid insulation on the inside, and a 3' muffler on the outlet, baffled return air vent. I've used my cyclone before and after I I can say that the closet is the only thing that will really quiet the thing down. I'd love to put it outside but my neighbors are too close.
Sooner or later I'll take pics ... inspiration to clean the shop, eh?
Penn State Industries make "Tempest" cyclone units with several of them able to fit under an 8' ceiling. They have all the metal duct as well as a mufler for these units. I have the model 142 and am very happy with it. These units cost and ship for less then Oneida units so check them out. As far as enclosing your dust collector, I have seen this done but you should talk with supplier for air requirements around unit.
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