Replies

1. 
   Crunk | Aug 08, 2003 04:17pm | #1

   Man, I'd use something else altogether for a bent lam.  Dap Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue comes to mind, epoxy - all the usual suspects.  If there's any chance your lamination might end up a little gappy then use epoxy.  Gorilla Glue (polyurethane glues) will not fill a gap with strength.

   
   

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   Edited 8/8/2003 1:43:51 PM ET by BossCrunk

2. 
   hmthomas | Aug 08, 2003 05:00pm | #2

   I think you'll be asking for trouble if you use the Gorilla (or any other Polyurethane type) glue on this project.  I've used this glue and in my experience, if you wait 5 minutes you'll have foam (mess) squeezing out before you can get the pieces lined up for glueing. Even if it all goes together then you'll have that squeeze out to clean up after its dry.

   Try an epoxy instead.  Just my 2 cents worth.

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Aug 08, 2003 06:36pm | #3

   I agree with the others. Neither poly glue or PVA glue is the appropriate adhesive for the job. Poly glue creates quite a bit of force as it cures which tends to push apart joints that are not securely clamped. PVA Yellow glues do not dry rigid. They will "creep" along each other if subjected to constant pressure. In other works, boards pressure curved and glued may straighten out over time.

   Better choices are urea formaldahyde adhesives like DAP/Weldwood Plastic Resin or slow set epoxy.

4. 
   Elcoholic | Aug 08, 2003 06:49pm | #4

   I have laminated with Gorilla, Excel and PL poly's.  Those yellow disposable foam paint rollers work pretty good, but break down fairly quickly on larger projects.  My favorite spreader for laminating with any glue are the Virutex (SP?) textured rollers for contact cement on Formica jobs.  Always seem to get just the right amount layed down very quickly.

   I am surprised the Gorilla guy told you to coat both surfaces though.  Per S.O.P. I always spritz one side with water.  You'll need disposable gloves and acetone.  I prefer the blue Nitrile gloves from Harbor Tool and Freight, $12 for a big box and they're a million times tougher than latex.  I even use them when working on the car. 

   I don't want to presume to tell you what to do, but I'd suggest you reconsider using poly for laminating.  Search this site and you'll find the consensus is decidely negative.  I personnally haven't had any trouble with poly, so I guess I've just been exceptionally lucky or I understand it's limitations.  You be the judge.  Go a full 24 hours in the form, makes sure there's no gaps and you have even clamping pressure.  I always use 2 piece forms.  BTW I have also used Weldwood Plastic Resin glue which I prefer for larger jobs.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

5. 
   BHerman | Aug 08, 2003 07:33pm | #5

   Richard - I did a similar lamination recently with walnut - 6 pieces approx. 4 1/2" x 36" and used the plastic resin glue - comes in powder form, easy to mix and spread (I used a disposable bristle brush) and masked the form off with wax paper and blue masking tape. Worked fine!! The piece is now finished and you have to look hard to see the lamination lines - nearly invisible.

6. 
   Crunk | Aug 08, 2003 08:46pm | #6

   I'd also leave the lam in the form until you are ready to cut joinery on the unit or otherwise put it into the project.  Don't take it out just 'cause the glue is dry.  Leave it until you need it.  The form is a great place to keep it stored.

7. 
   Napie | Aug 08, 2003 09:43pm | #7

   I've had nothing but great success with poly glues, Gorilla and Tite-bond brands.  I did the rockers for six chairs, that's 12 glue ups, with 6 laminations each of 1 3/4" x 3/16" white ash.  Just glue ONLY one side, sponge the other lightly with water.  The whole job only took about a quart of glue, spread it THIN.  The foam squeeze out is a breeze to clean up with a paint scraper.

1. 
   rckendall | Aug 09, 2003 05:27am | #8

   Wow, Thanks to all who responded. This was above and beyond my expectations.

   I have worked a few years in the boat building industry and know both plastic resin and epoxy glues well. Lately, doing furniture, I've been using Titebond 2. When I came to this teak project I did a search for "glues for teak" on this site and found Gorilla glue to be the most popular. I thought I'd try it.

   But as I thought it through I sensed trouble. My next move was to buy some plastic resin glue and do some testing with it, as I had the other choices. All have proven adequate with ideal conditions, but I will have to create a more realistic test, one with slightly aged glue surfaces etc.

   Again, thanks to everyone.

   Richard

1. 
   TomT226 | Aug 11, 2003 01:47pm | #10

   I don't agree with the posts that indicate a creep problem with laminations using Titebond II PVA glue.

   I've got a dozen or more cauls of varying length and deflection made up of 1/2" X 1" oak strips laminated together.

   These cauls are used to edgeband ply with solid wood edging.

   I've used these, and made more, for about 10 years and there is no separation or "creep" that is detectable. The cauls have deflections varying from 2" for short ones, to about 6" for long ones.

   These have been used for the production of at least a couple of hundred doors with 4 sides, so you can imagine the stress they have undergone.

   Just remember when you're laminating, to start from the center and work both ways. You can't beat a finger to spread the glue.

1. 
   rckendall | Aug 11, 2003 03:25pm | #11

   Tom,

   Thanks for pitching in. I too have used Titebond 2 for laminating in the past. While nothing has come apart or become useless, I have am able to feel the glue line at some of the joints. I wish I knew what makes this happen in some places and not in others.

   I also have seen some of the tight laminations open up or spring back with time. I will keep monitoring this to see if it becomes a problem in the long term. Doing this new job in teak has gotten me to look at other options and I'm really looking forward to testing with plastic resin glue.

   With epoxy I've had good luck with foam rollers, as one other poster suggested. But with Titebond I use a brush to help get a thick layer which helps from skinning over during the relatively long open time.

   Again, thanks to all who have helped with this.

   Richard

8. 
   DennisS | Aug 10, 2003 03:19am | #9

   Hi Richard -

   I've only attempted one fairly complex bent lamination project; a handrail pitch change from one stair run to another through a landing at 180 degrees change in direction. I used Gorrila glue in two instances. The first was to glue up the laminations for the stretched out pitch change curve, then re-sawed that to make the 180 degree bend. My experience was a mixed one.

   First, all the laminations were less than 1/4" thick since I was trying to make this out of redwood. Admittedly not a good species for bending. That said, after re-sawing to the less than 1/4" thickness, steaming then bending around the form for the 180 return bend, I didn't lose one piece due to failure at the glue joint. I did have some splitting due to grain runout but that's my own dang fault, of course.

   I really don't know how well something like rescourcinol would hold up under the heat and moisture of bending but that's mu usual choice of adhesive for staving up pieces for turning. I used the Polyurethane in the above instance since this was an outside deck stair situation subject to lots of wet here in the Pathetic NorthWet climate. Doing it all over, I would experiment some with the resourcinol to see how well it stood up under the steam bending process - the poly glues are, as has been mentioned any number of times, a real mess to work with. I can attest for how well they hold, though! It is pretty tough stuff. But wear gloves. The stuff stains your hands something fierce. Please don't ask me how I know this!!

   Oh - spreading was the question ... I didn't wait any longer than it took to get the pieces in the form and to start clamping. I spread beads from the bottle and used a pieces of scrap plam as a spreader. First couple of times I think I used about three times as much as was really needed - hence the big mess. It's about as bad as that spray styrofoam you buy in a can .... expands exponentially! (grin)

   I wouldn't be afraid to try it again but I'd also experiment with other non-foaming types first to see if they work in your situation. I know I will.

   By the way, I'm just a WW wannabe so take my ramplings with the requisite grain of salt.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]