Replies

1. 
   Thorvald | Jan 23, 2009 06:08am | #1

   Willi, clarify one thing first.  Is your new bench top a true butcher block, i.e., is the surface all end-grain? 

   Verne

   If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!

1. 
   williwood | Jan 23, 2009 06:26am | #2

   No. It is laminated boards about 2" wide. I'm thinking it will expand and contract at a similar rate as the boards below (same wood species) but I'm concerned aboiut the layer of glue. Will it move enough with the wood? That's what I'm unsure about.

1. 
   ThreePuttJoe | Jan 23, 2009 07:22am | #3

   If you attach 5 or 6" aprons to the front and sides (glue the front and cylinder bolt the sides) you should increase the rigidity tremendously. I think you will get a ton of movement and major splitting with your current strategy. I think the movement will be even more pronounced in your case because a prefab slab is probably not constucted in a manner that ensures all the boards are oriented in the same direction.

2. 
   Thorvald | Jan 23, 2009 07:43am | #4

   There are a handful of variables that make what you're suggesting a bad bet.  The grain orientation in the laminated top doesn't necessarily run in the same direction -- one would have to studty the end grain to get an idea of the way in which the top is likely to move with moisture changes.  If it's all quarter sawn and glued up the ritght way, you've still got a bit of a crap shoot on your hands since you didn't do the glue up and don't know what the moisture content was or how it's going to react in your shop.

   My advise would be to build some legs for it and let it get used to your shop environment for a while before doing anything that would seriously constrain it.  If you're concerned about its strength (I wouldn't think it would be a problem since it's only 5' long and the points of support would be something short of that) you could add additional support by bolting lengthwise cleats to the underside.  Gluing planks to it is pretty much certain to result in some kind of problem.Verne

   If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jan 23, 2009 12:55pm | #8

   willi,

   Before you do this could you enlighten us as to what your goal is with regard to adding thickness to the top?

   If you need the extra thickness for vise mounting then perhaps adding thickness where you need it would be a better choise.  A 1½" thick maple benchtop mounted on a solid base should be sufficient in most cases.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

4. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Jan 23, 2009 02:31pm | #9

   Face glued lumber expands and contracts through its thickness, not its width.  Edge glued lumber is just the opposite.

    

1. 
   williwood | Jan 24, 2009 02:52am | #10

   First thanks for all your input. To be honest I made the post because I was having serious doubts. That having been said let me clarify by answering the questions and responding to some of the comments.

   Regarding the grain of the top it is a mix of quartersawn and riftsawn boards. It seems they were selected for stability. I've thought about selecting the best quatersawn boards from my stock for the underside glue-up but I'm still thinking it's a bad idea and most of the responses have gone that way.

   Regarding why make one that thick. Two reasons. One is I figure I need about 20 board feet for the base. I had to buy a 50 board foot lot from a local lumber mill so I will have 30 board feet of 8/4 lumber left over. Why not use it to build a sturdier bench. Second is that I considered a 1 3/4" top to be a minimum. I bought a Jorgeson face vise and Veritas twin screw tail vise. I will definitely have to build up the thickness for the face vise and likely for the tail vise altough I have some more reading to do there. I did intend to let the stickered top and stock set for 2-3 weeks before doing any machining.

   So I'm thinking Verne is probably right about too many variables.Why take the risk. I'm leaning towards threeputtJoe's solution of attaching aprons. I'm not sure what he meant by "cylinder bolt the sides". I'm guessing this acts somewhat like breadboard ends to allow movement along the width. I would appreciate clarification on this from anyone who understands this technique. Otherwise I'll probably go with the aprons and breadboard ends technique.

   Of course the other option is to drive on with the existing top as is and shim as required to build up the thickness where necessary. The Veritas end vice also has me a little concerned about wood movement restriction but I'm thinking slightly oversized holes or a breadboard end can take care of that.

   Once again thanks for the input and any futher asistance will be appreciated.

   Regards,

   Williwood

1. 
   roc | Jan 24, 2009 07:52am | #11

   >considered a 1 3/4" top to be a minimum.For hand tool use, planing and mortising, I would agree. The thicker the better. More importantly Christopher Schwartz would agree. See his book Workbenches.I don't really worship his choice in work benches but the info in his book is plentiful, specific and broadly informed. Maybe your library has the book or else it is available for purchase. It just came out last year or so.roc

2. 
   ThreePuttJoe | Jan 24, 2009 08:39am | #12

   Willi -

   A cylinder bolt, or cross-dowel bolt is sort of like a bed bolt. You bore a hole in the underside of the bench, drop in the cylinder or cross-dowel, and then drill an oversized hole through the apron to the other hole. When you bolt it up, you should have a snug fit that will allow for some movement. You can also counter-bore the holes in the apron and plug them. Check out Lon Schleining's bench design. He also uses a router on both sides of the top to create a tenon and then routes out a coresponding groove in the inside of the aprons. This should prevent any cupping of the top, and coupled with the front apron should add considerable strength to the top. This is the design I used, and it seems to be working out quite well. Schleining's bench design is in one of the Tool and Shops issues of FWW.

   Joe

3. 
   pezzi | Jan 24, 2009 04:43pm | #13

   Lee Valley carries these bolts, made for workbenches:

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31147cat=1,41637

4. 
   williwood | Jan 24, 2009 06:15pm | #14

   Thanks Joe. I thought that's what you meant. In fact before seeing your reply I found a good selection of these cross dowel  nuts at "Woodpeckers". Lee Valley/Veritas also has them for 1/2" bolts. They call them "bench bolts".

   I am going to go the way you suggest. I'll probably join the side aprons to the benchtop with splines by using a slot cutting router bit. I think I'm on my way. Thanks again to everyone for the assistance. I haven't posted in a long time and I'm very impressed with the quantity and qualiity of the advice offered.

   Regards to all,

   Williwood

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 23, 2009 08:04am | #5

   Just a thought, but your bench top size seems a little short. If your space dictates a short bench or your work doesn't require a long one, so be it, but I'd prefer a longer bench myself. My current bench top is 3' x 6' and I wish it were longer.

   Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
   (soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   Jammersix | Jan 23, 2009 10:46am | #6

   Huh.I have a 7 foot bench now, and I'm about to build a 5 foot bench, and cut the width by 6 inches.Plenty of room in the shop, but the only thing the extra room does is require picking up.

3. 
   BG | Jan 23, 2009 12:08pm | #7

   Williwood,

   If you glue another board to your butcher block top on the underside, thereby giving you a 3 1/2" thick top, the glue will not be a problem. However, the orientation of the wood (flat sawn verses qtr. sawn) over thirty inches wide probably will be. If it were me I'd probably rip 6" off the width of the butcher block top and laminate that to the front/underside of the top...giving me the thickness where I need it and aligning the woods for minimum problems.