I’m looking for advice for the best steel possible in a wood chisel for a decent price. Choosing from Hirsch/Two Cherries, MHG, Ashley Iles, Sorby, Crown or Marples, what will retain an edge the longest and require the least amount of lapping? Any other brands I may have left out? Lie Nielsons are too costly at this point. What about these Pinnacle chisels from Woodcraft? These look nice but I can’t find anything on edge retention.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5823
Replies
Buck Brothers Cast Steel., Charles Buck, Swan, Stanley 600 series, and some other names that escape me at the moment, all manufacturered before WWII.
My own preference and use are vintage chisels (Bergs and Witherby), but I do also have a number of Japanese chisels which I like enormously. I do not have much first hand experience with new Western style chisels, and I doubt many have the knowledge to make a broad comparison this way either. What we tend to get is a report on one person's experience with one or two chisel brands. Unfortunately, this does not say which is the best.
It strikes me that we have a checklist of questions for most blades, more especially for chisel blades:
Is the back flat? Are the sides parallel? Is the steel hard enough to hold an edge? Is the steel soft enough to hone quickly? Is the steel elastic enough not to chip? Is the handle comfortable? Are the sides good for paring dovetails? Will the chisel withstand being hit with a mallet?
New chisels seem to be as much a kit as old planes. One tends to pay for someone else (the manufacturer) to attend to a number of the items in the above list that would otherwise require the attention of the purchaser. Some manufacturers, such as LN, offer the "full treatment" and you get a working tool out of the box. You pay for this service. Other makes require more involvement in one or more areas. It is most unlikely that you will escape all in a lower cost chisel. The only chisel type that I consistently hear good things about, and regardless of cost, are Japanese chisels. The rest seems to be a crap shoot.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I agree 100% with what my friend from Perth has said. Right on Derek.I'd like to add that I recommend considering the size of chisels required. For traditional hand made cabinetry, I recommend a truncated set of tools between the sizes 3/16- 7/8 with even more tools (like every 1/16") in the 1/2" range. I find the "standard" set of chisels (1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1") completely inadequate. So I was impressed with LN's choice in sizes. 5, 7, &9 sixteenths are really really handy. If i had my choice, I would like to see guys with every 1/16 from 3/16 to 13/16 or 14/16. That, in my mind is a good starter set for a cabinetmaker.The other consideration around size is standard or metric. I think there are distinct advantages to sticking with the units that your other tools and your wood is in. I know they make metric tools close to standard sizes. But I find they are rarely close enough and the whole issue seems unneccessarily inconvenient.THEREFORE- tho I don't have any, I think I would recommend Ashley Illes. Pretty sure if you buy them from Joel at tools for working wood.com (no affliation) you can get them without handles. I'm also fairly certain that you can get any size you want. So that's sort of the best of all worlds. AI's steel is plenty good- its my understanding that they come in reasonably good shape and if you don't like the handles (I don't like Hirsch's/2 cherries), you can get them a little bit cheaper and make your own.BOTTOM LINE
We've talked steel to death. I would avoid the junky cheap chisels. Once you get above the Sorby range, I think you should make yoru selection based on the shape and size of the blade and the handle. My set of 12? Hirsch chisels stays in a roll beneath my bench because I don't like the sizes and hate the handles.Adam
Adam,
I too am in the market to upgrade my chisels and I'm curious about your recommend ation for a brand of chisels that you don't personally own and use on some regular basis? Is there more to these chisels than you have thus far mentioned?
Doug
Hi Doug,No. And you're right. I've never used AI chisels so I understand how it sounds a little cuckoo to recommend them to others. I've used lots of other chisels and I'm recommending a brand I've never used. I guess the point is that there are several factors one should take into account when choosing chisels. Steel is important. That's really number one. But the OP mentioned a host of chisels with great steel. How should one choose between them? I'm suggesting taking size into serious consideration. In my shop, size is every bit as important as the quality of the steel. In fact, I'd be willing to go so far as to forgive a lesser quality blade if it was the only tool I had in a size I needed.So the morale of the story is...(you knew this was coming) SIZE MATTERS.Adam
Doug
Like Adam, I would also plump for the AI bench chisels. Yet I have not used them. However, I have heard very good reports about them, and their pedigree is excellent.
Another brand that gets consistent good reports is Two Cherries. Many say get the cheaper Hirsch since these come out the same factory. I have an alternate suggestion. I while ago I noticed that Two Cherries were selling unpolished versions of their chisels, and that these were cheaper than the standard, polished versions.
Polishing may look nice but it just rounds the backs of chisels, which one then grinds away to make usable! So buy the cheaper version that also saves you the trouble. I think that these may have been available through Craftsman Studio.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks to you and Adam for the information.
Doug
The unpolished ones are cheaper, but it's only ten or twelve bucks. I bought mine (polished version) for $125- six chisel set, in a box. I know $12 can get you the grey honing guide but I don't think it's enough to worry about. I googled "Two Cherries Chisel Sets" and looked for the best price, found at The Craftsman Studio. If the Hirsch are actually the same, it sounds like Two Cherries is like the Cadillac Cimmaron, which was a glorified Chevy Cavilier. The Hirsch are $89 at Lee Valley and that's the best price I have seen, for the Hirsch. BTW- even though I haven't spent a lot of time with them, they do a nice job on hard maple and so far, have stayed very sharp.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Highfigh, the reason I mentioned the unpolished Two Cherries was not because they were cheaper (primarily, at any rate), but because their backs would be flatter than the polished versions. Just less work to do.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek makes a very good point.
The standard massively overpolished two cherries are a menace. The steel is very good but the rounded over long edges are a disgrace.
You have to remove large amounts of the hard steel, from the back, before the corners of the edge become sharp.
This is a classic case of a manufacturer who seems to have forgotten the function of the tool. There can be no possible reason for this overpolishing, other than to look sexy, and possibly to cut down the tendency to rust.
The unpolished chisels will save you many hours of preparation.
Personally I hate the handles which seem to absorb and dissipate the force of a mallet blow. The bevelling is a derisory, so square edges are much thicker than they should be. More like a firmer chisel than a bevel edge tool for fine work.
There! Feeling much better after that little rant......
DC,When you say long edges, you don't mean the cutting edge, right? Why do they need to be sharp? There's a little flat on the side of the tool. Do you grind that away?Adam
Adam,
The majority of these chisels seen in UK, are machine polished to mirror chrome like finish.
The long side edges of the back, have a distinct radius, along their length. Just like a furniture edge where we remove the sharp arriss, to make it friendly to the touch.
Where these dubbed over edges intersect with the cutting edge, at the corners of the cutting edge, there is no sharpness. The chisel will not cut cleanly into a corner, say the corners of a dovetail socket.
This problem can only be overcome by;
1. honing a lot of metal off the back
2. regrinding the long edges.
The lack of a delicate edge, could be solved by regrinding the bevel, but the existing crossection is nearer to firmer. I can't see the point of a bevel edge chisel if it is not done sufficiently. This something that Ashley Iles do well.
David,
I have a set of unpolished 2 Cherries (purchased from Joel at Tools for Working Wood). The backs are flat, the long edges are not rounded over, and the corners of the cutting edge are sharp. These unpolished chisels are available from a couple of U.S. sources; not sure where you can send your U.K. students to get them.
I know some traditional craftspeople in Germany and Austria, and I cannot imagine that they prefer the overpolished, rounded over tools that would require longer prep time before use. Unless it's meant as an exercise for the hazing of apprentices! So it's a mystery to me who the target consumer of the polished chisels is supposed to be!
-Andy
P.S. I've read both of your books and am eagerly awaiting vol. 3!
I happened to speak to someone at Henry Taylor about the whole polished chisel thing and his response was "the Americans like them like that". I suggested they offered them unpolished too, and see what happened, but he didn't want to know. I have a suspicion the polishing must hide a multitude of sins and really it's for their benefit..fwiw, the unpolished Two Cherries are apparently available from Dieter Schmid. Not too tricky a purchase from the UK - there had to be some advantage to the whole European Union thing somewhere...Cheers, Alf
If that's what we prefer, then why doesn't LN do it, too?
;)
I guess we prefer having to soak our chisels in lacquer thinner as well? Ah, the smell of it!
-Andy
Andy,
Where I live, VT means only one thing: "Virginia Tech". Did you go to Virginia Tech?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hi Mel,
Nope, too hot in VA for me to earn a degree there!V ermon TTemps hit the mid-eighties around here and the neighbors start talking about a "heat wave"!-Andy
Andy,
Woodworking is much more fun when it's cool. Sounds like you've got a good situation.
I grew up in Connecticut but spent almost a decade in Florida-Alabama, so I think of Virginia as moderate. But lately it has been HOT.
Enjoy.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
It's been hot here, too. We had several days in the 90s and that is hard on people who aren't accustomed to it!
I had some work to do out in my shop where it must have been over 100 degrees. Now it cooled down finally and I've got a cross breeze through the shop. Needless to say, planing by hand is much more comfortable in the evenings. I just have to be careful not to cross paths with a skunk on the way back to the house!!!
-Andy
VT is the US postal abbreviation for the state of Vermont, so I reckon that usage of the abbreviation is more common than Virginia Tech.
Hi deirdresm,It is certainly true that across the nation, VT refers to Vermont more often than to Virginia Tech. But where I live, VT only means one thing.I grew up in Connecticut and skied in the great state of Vermont. Your maple syrup is the only one that graces out table. Yours is a beautiful state. But if you ever drive through Virginia and anyone mentions "VT", I recommend that you shout "GO HOKIES" and smile broadly. Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I'm a Hokie too. I think Vermont needs to find itself a new abbreviation!
dwol,
Or Tech could return to its real abbreviation-VPI (&SU). Guess that kinda dates me, huh? It'd require a significantly larger sticker for your window, though. And a much longer attention span, to read it all...;-))
Cheers,
Ray
How did they arrive at the name "Hokie"? I know what a hokie is, but I wouldn't want to be one. No offense to a VT fan.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
high,
My understanding (I'm no poultry farmer) is that a "hokie" is a a young turkey, which is their mascot. As you probably know, it was an ag school before Frank Beamer was coronated. Better'n calling themselves the "jakes", maybe or the turkeys, which would be even worse. The Harrisonburg Valley League baseball team gets around that by calling themselves the "turks".
Cheers,
Ray
Ray
A hokie is an emasculated turkey, according to the definitions I have seen and heard. That's the reason I was wondering why they would pick it as their name, unless that makes them mean or something.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Dwol,
We need all the Hokie woodworkers we can get. Attached is a photo of a Hokie bench I made. There is another bench in the photo too.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I happened to speak to someone at Henry Taylor about the whole polished chisel thing and his response was "the Americans like them like that". I suggested they offered them unpolished too, and see what happened, but he didn't want to know. I have a suspicion the polishing must hide a multitude of sins and really it's for their benefit.
Yeah, I remember that. It's a cop out. I also asked Crown. Same response, basically. I should have asked if their marketing department had run the numbers to see if the unpolished 2 Cherries are kicking their behind in the American market.
I think Japanese chisels [many of their tools really] are a testament that unpolished/unrefined as to perfection sells well.
Oh well. At least there are so many options for us as woodworkers to choose from at all price points that it is hard for me to work myself up to the point of caring. Anyone who asks in a forum--which albeit is a small number of woodworkers--is told to avoid polished chisels which have rounded the sides.
What I am waiting for is for someone to make quality paring chisels in a style like the Sorbys. I do fine with the Sorbys. In fact, they are probably the chisels which get the most use. Harder would be better, though. Heck, maybe I'll try my hand at hardening the buggers.
Take care, Mike
Totally agree.
Unfortunately the manufacturer probably has figures to prove that high polish, sells, I guess mostly to newcomers who know no better.
"All that glisters, is not gold"..........
So thoroughly endorse your suggestion, we should say it loud and often!
I was furious with F&C for recommending them, but lo and behold the test set were the unpolished ones!!!!!
Socket chisels with long handles work well for me, but are not exactly what you describe.....
Hi DC,
Yeah, I grew up with long thin paring chisels and they just seem "right" to me. I like the flex for one thing. But mainly the length.
These are a chisel one rarely sees on the auction sites, whenever I look anyway. They often go for way more than the individual Sorbys. And the Sorbys are servicable at least in the absence of an alternative.
When I pare a mortise, the length is easy for my little mind to register plumb. Even if I choose to use it to pare a tenon, the length is easy to tell whether it is horizontal--I saw the shoulders on my bench hool, saw the cheeks, test fit and if needed put them on my bench hook to rasp or pare.
Oh well. I could always get Barr to make me a couple of the sizes I use most if he was willing...
Back to work. At least it is below 40C today...
Mikechasing the paring chisel rainbow...
There are worse things. I arrived early one morning at a tag sale, and saw what from a distance were a set of six pristine paring chisels. As I got closer I saw that they were polished--but that was wrong. Someone had Chrome Plated these 6 Swan paring chisels, and close inspection revealed the chrome was lifting and rust was starting to bubble up below. And, the idiot owner had priced them at $30 each. I hope some newcomer didn't get taken. Grrrrr.
DC,
Thanks for your response. Very informative. I checked my Hirsch chisels (which I don't use and have never sharpened) and they exhibit exactly the phenomenon you discuss. So thanks for enlightening me.
If I may, I'd like to add my agreement to your sentiments. I have found my chisels to be very good friends over the years, friends I turn to repeatedly for all sorts of work. I find I prefer square sided chisels precisely because I use those corners so often. Admittedly, the dubbing of the edge is subtle on the Hirsch chisels I have. I can see why a woodworker might say we're making mountains out of mole hills. But having a crisp sharp corner is of so great a value to me that I find this seemingly minor issue quite significant. I'm guessing you would say regardless of my use of the corner, a dull corner reduces the overall effectiveness and sharpness ofteh tool. (?)
The only other thing I'd like to add to this discussion is that I've had a great time using my chisels and I don't think these most basic of all woodworking tools are discussed often enough. You can do a lot more with a chisel than pare a joint made with some other tool or chop a dovetail. I think all woodworkers would benefit by getting to know their chisels better. The guys at Wmsburg, perhaps because they are carvers, wield their chisels with great confidence and to great effect. Its inspirational to watch them do the curved portion of a raised panel in minutes with nought but a wide firming chisel. While I've never made such a panel, but its my understanding that this is a fairly difficult job with any tool. So it was really neat to see them dispense with this so quickly with a chisel and a bit of scraper.
Adam
Adam,
Glad to be of assistance. It just irritates me a lot, that the manufacturer is doing something to the detriment of the tools use, for spurious reasons. This unfortunately is a common habit.
I think the only time one would notice is when trying to get a clean corner, no other serious drawback that I can think of in normal woodworking. Although corners are fairly common.
Chisels are great and you can usually spot the one that was favorite, for a multitude of jobs, in an old set. Much shorter than the rest!
I hope people will go to Joel for the unp[olished chisels and deluge the makers with requests for unpolished.......
I think those of us who bought the shiney, pretty ones should send them back to either have them reground or exchanged.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I have a set of the old Marples bench chisels I bought 34 years ago, when IMO are far superior to the Marples of today but they have become shorter. A few varied Bucks that came from my fathers and uncles tool-box. A couple of Crown mortise chisels for economy and two larger width (and larger price :>) timber-framing mortisers from Barr. And a set of Ashley Isle's American Cabinet Chisels.
Never tried the Two Cherries or the Japanese chisels, so I have no opinion of those. But if I had to choose one mortise chisel company it would be Barr even though expensive. One bench or paring chisel, it would be Ashley Isle's as it is exceptional quality at a reasonable price as I see the crow fly.
Good luck...
SARGE.. g-47
Two Cherries chisels offer one of the best values out there for the price. They're reasonably inexpensive, and hold an edge the longest of any you mentioned. They are a bit hard, and therefore take a little extra work to sharpen, but it's worth the extra few minutes to not have to go to the stones so frequently. Overall, the time saved is large.
Jeff
Rover1,
The truth is, everything said so far by the others is great advice. There are a lot of great chisels each with slightly different operating characteristics in performance and feel. So it really becomes a matter of the job at hand and your likes and dislikes.
Another aspect of reality is only a few of these chisels will do most of the work....the other chisels will just sit there looking pretty.
Don't let the 'buying a set' get you all bound up..you can always do that later. If you want to save money and have fun buy a few new and the rest go hunting at the flee markets. You can buy a lot of classic chisels for $5-8 each, some I've bought for $.50 and made handles.
Edited 7/23/2006 6:39 am ET by BG
Rover1,
If you live in the northeast quadrant of the U.S. you should be able to find some decent used chisels at flea markets, antique shops, garage sales, etc. Although I have several "sets," the advice that you don't need a set is correct. Start out by buying 2 or 3 that give you some varying widths. 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 for example.
I have seen some of the master class woodworkers still using good old Stanley 750s within the past couple of years. You might find them for $5 - $10 locally, or about $25 and up on ebay. Stanley 720s are longer versions of the 750s.
As someone else indicated, the key to your successful use of any chisel will be your sharpening and honing skills.
Enjoy,
Alan - planesaw
I think any of the chisels you have mentioned are good. I have a good collection of chisels ranging from old swans,witherbys, pextos , stanley 720/750s and new irwin blue chips. I really don't see a lot of difference in edge retention. In my experience buying new is easier as far as set up,lapping and honing. If you are looking for bevel edge bench chisels you wont have spend a lot for new ones that will work well. If you are looking for mortise chisels you will find prices for old one to be more reasonable.
I think the most important thing is to find chisels that suit you, fit your hands and needs. Then learn to sharpen them. When I pull a chisel from its box I look for the style(mortise,paring, etc) then the width. Sometimes Ill have more than one that fits those criteria and then I'll look for a handle that will afford the best control. I make my own handles much of the time.
Good Luck
One of the magazines did a study recently about chisels of various makes, hardiness, and all the other stuff and concluded it was up to the individual and how he likes the looks and feel and what he thought about sharening tools. If they make the chisel too hard, it chips, and if too soft, it requires more sharpening. I bought Sorby because I wanted the best and liked the feel of them, but I do own alot of others that work just fine. Chisels are like planes, you can buy the Cherry handle ones, or the old Rosewood knob ones. Or a other good example are hammers. How do you justify spending much on a hammer - only need small ones and some great big ones and let the experts augue about the steel hardiness and handle size, etc. John
Hi Rover1,
If it's edge retention you want, trust me the Sorby's are out. I have a set of the Octagonal Sorby's which are not an inexpensive chisel, the steel is awful, I tried all kinds of angles and finally gave up on them. I purchase some of the Ashely Iles butt chisels and the steel really holds a nice edge. But I have to say, I have some Japanese white steel chisels that I bought from Japan Woodworker (I can't remember the makers name) that take and hold an truly 'scary sharp' edge... Makes me want to buy more of them.
Good luck
I bought the Sorby Octagonal handle set and spent hours polishing the backs to a mirror finish on wet stones. I honed them to 25 degrees and the edges crumbled with even light chopping of dovetails. I reset to 27 then 30 degrees with the same disheartening result. They are really good at light paring balsa in wood, that's about it. I will probably go for the L-Ns
I think those chisels can be easily fixed. How easy would it be to remove the handles? They are such nice chisels- they have a nice traditional shape more or less. The handles are nice. They come in a lot of sizes. If they were cheaper, I think it would be smart for someone to buy them and fix them to resell. I mentioned this to Joel but he choked on his mocha latte java supremo before he told me I was nuts.
Depending on how much money you have invested, it might be worth a can of MAPP gas and a tempilstik. There are a lot of woodworkers with these chisels. Heck, you could probably do the same to Marples blue chipsalot. The only probably would be that I would want to bake them in the oven and the plastic may melt at the temper temperature (approx 400F). The alternative would be tempering with another tempilstik and the torch.
Would be a fun experiment. Heat treating is not rocket science, nor is it black magic.
Adam
"I mentioned this to Joel but he choked on his mocha latte java supremo before he told me I was nuts."Two things:
I really don't drink coffeee except when I am in Italy, when it's all I drink and then it's a straight expresso or a machiato. Like tools, I don't really approve of any coffee conconction invented after 1914. (The Norris adjuster seems to be my cutoff).Second:
while it's perfectly fine to heat treat your own chisels there is no reason why you should have to. You paid for chisels, not a kit. Send them back to wherever you bought them from. If a chisel won't hold an edge in normal woods it is defective. Any decent retailer will take them back and pay your return postage even if you tried one a bit. joel
"Second:while it's perfectly fine to heat treat your own chisels there is no reason why you should have to. You paid for chisels, not a kit. Send them back to wherever you bought them from. If a chisel won't hold an edge in normal woods it is defective. Any decent retailer will take them back and pay your return postage even if you tried one a bit."
You sir, deserve a standing ovation. It seems like such a freaking simple tool (chisels) to manufacture correctly, yet more often than not they aren't even close.
Now don't get me wrong. I also applaude Adam resourcefulness to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, but really for such an expensive chisel it's a crime.
Testtest,Anybody who goes to Italy and drinks nothing but coffee deserves to have bad chisels.Sean
Sorry - The wine is excellent also - I forgot to mention it.
"Heck, you could probably do the same to Marples blue chipsalot"I take it you're not a fan of the Blue Chips. I just bought a set of them (Irwin incarnation). I'm not terribly hand tool proficient, but am working on it. I got the Blue Chips thinking that they would be good enough while improving my skills and then I'd keep them as my set of "beaters" when I'm ready for something better. I have always heard that they were good low-end chisels. You seem to disagree. Anything specific, other than "chipsalot"? And, I have to say that this has been one of the more interesting threads of late.Mike
Edited 7/27/2006 1:09 pm ET by Mike_B
No, I think they are good low end chisels. I'm just not a fan of low end chisels. Let me tell you why: I don't like having to stop to sharpen in the middle of a job. If I'm working in my shop in the evening, that's usually the end of the evening. I like tools that remain sharp long enough for me to finish 1 job. Hirsch/2 Cherries will do that. My antiques will do that. Good older Stanleys will do that. Marples and Sorby won't. That doesn't mean they won't work for you. What it really comes down to is how often you have to sharpen. Because any chisel will work. Tage Frid sharpened in seconds on his belt sander. Probably didn't matter to him how long his edges lasted.We have to be careful not to fall into the "I gotta have the best" trap. That said, instead of buying new, try fixing what you have. Its not hard. Get the 1500 tempilstik, and maybe another one for temper maybe 400 or so. You could use your oven were it not for the plastic handles.adam
Thanks for your reply and the information. I've spent my life in the "I gotta have the best" trap, and was happy to break the habit with the Blue Chip purchase. And at this point, a little more time spent sharpening is probably a good thing for me, though I find it bores me to tears. And, as I said, when I think I'll appreciate the difference, I'll step up to something a little better and use the Blue Chips for all the things you shouldn't use a chisel for. I have to admit though, and I can't say why, I really like the plastic handles -- go figure. Thanks again.
It might be worth starting a thread here about "starter tools". Seems to me, most of us (don't want to speak for everyone mind you) think its inefficient to buy a tool, then buy a better tool later. From what I can see, a goodly portion of knots, other ww websites and most ww magazines is dedicated to helping guys avoid starter tools. Not knowing jack about 6" jointers, I guess I would say a starter plow plane is a bad idea. But starter chisels and maybe saws at least seem to be good ideas. In both cases, the skill you are developing with them is sharpening. In the case of chisels, its easy to sharpen cheap chisels and hard to fix sharpening mistakes in good chisels. So it seems to me that sometimes a starter tool is a good idea and sometimes not. I'm trying to think of other examples...Adam
"So it seems to me that sometimes a starter tool is a good idea and sometimes not. I'm trying to think of other examples..."Adam,You're right, and that could easily be a 100 thread post. I can come down on either side of the "buy the best you can" concept. I've always gone for the best I could afford, and most times better than I could afford with almost no regrets. This thinking may make more sense for really big ticket items where the bottom line cost is really up there, and you want to buy it once and enjoy peak performance for your lifetime. But then there is the neophyte who jumps in and spends a ton of money on tools only to find that he or she isn't that interested and won't be woodworking very long -- maybe not the time to buy the best you can afford. With lower cost items, like many hand tools, I think you can afford to buy and sell a few times as you require better stuff. Seventy or a hundred bucks for a set of chisels isn't a huge amount, and if you want to upgrade without selling what you have, it's not like you gambled away the rent money. I really was torn on buying some better, but inexpensive chisels to replace the beaters I'd been using, based on my hand tool skill level -- I would have felt stupid owning a set of $300 chisels given my current ability -- like being on a woodworking dude ranch with my Bridge City VP60 at the ready, plaid Pendelton shirt and top of the line Red Wing boots ready for some serious dust makin' -- don't fence me in! I think your on to something with a "Starter Tools" thread and I'll let you do the honors if you like. It's been a horrific week and so I'm off to chisel the top off a bottle of Beam Black and lower my IQ a bit.Mike
Edited 7/28/2006 6:20 pm ET by Mike_B
"I think your on to something with a "Starter Tools" thread and I'll let you do the honors if you like."Again, I'm slow on the trigger. I see the post has begun. Story of my life.
Beam Black ? Is that a starter whiskey?LOL
"Beam Black ? Is that a starter whiskey?"Probably not, though if I'd started with it instead of some of the gasoline I've imbibed over the years, I'd be better off. It's very good stuff, but oddly doesn't fit Adam's rule -- "buy it right, buy it once." While I feel like I'm buying right, I seem to have bought it way more than once.
Mike Ive had my share of gasoline over the years. Beam does make some good whiskies.If you like the Black label you would like the Knob Creek.Close in price when you find it on sale. A little bigger flavor better finish. Think Ill Have one tonight.
"Think Ill Have one tonight"I think you just may be on to something there.Knob Creek is very good. Booker's, Woodford Reserve and Blanton's are some of my other favorites. And there are a ton of the small batch brands coming out all the time which are quite tasty. I was in Kentucky for the first time recently, and even the chain bars had better stuff on the shelf than the four-star places around here. I could get in some serious trouble if I lived there -- in the words of the immortal Dean Wormer, "fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son."
Who sells Knob Creek Chisels?
Hey Chief,
I hate to sound like the mechanic that blames his(or her) tools, but I really think the quaility of my dovetails has improved since I ditched the Octagonal Sorby's infavor of the Ashley Iles American Patterns. It was next to impossible to keep the Sorby's sharp, the edge was forever rolling over. The edge even rolls when used for paring with a 35 degree bevel.
I would have bought the L-N chisels but the 'intellience' has not been an overwelming thumbs up so far, everything about the Iles was positive. I have to say the steel really holds an edge, I am pleased. I would by them again and the price is really very reasonable, about the low to mid $20's per chisel from Joel's Tool's for Working Wood.
Best of luck
Rover1
If you would enjoy spending a lot of time searching for chisels in antique stores and garage sales, then go for it. There is nothing like the "excitement of the hunt for a bargain on great tools".
If you need a good set of bench chisels now, I suggest the Hirsch set from Lee Valley. My research indicated that the Hirsch and the Two Cherries chisels come off the same line at the same factory.
I have a 35 year old set of Two Cherries carving chisels, and a two year old set of Hirsch bench chisels from Lee Valley, and both work well for me. But I am merely a passionate weekend warrior, not a professional woodworker. I have read that some wellknown woodworking schools use the Marples sets in their classes.
It might be good to do some thinking about what you are going to do with the chisels. For example, if you primarily going to do mortising, then get mortising chisels. If you are going to make dovetails, then you might want a shorter set of chisels. Bench chisels are a good compromise for someone who will only have one set of chisels, rather than three or four sets for specialized uses.
Bottom line: if you want a good set of chisels now, at a good price, the Hirsch set at Lee Valley is hard to beat.
A rumination: if you get the Hirsch now, you can spend the next three to five years looking for individual chisels at antique stores. When you have a set of classic chisels that you are happy with, you can sell the Hirsch on EBay for a good portion of what you paid for them.
Whatever you do, don't let worring about getting "the best" set of chisels get in the way of enjoying your woodworking. You probably won't know what you think is best until you have tried lots of the alternatives yourself.
Have fun!
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Rover,
Adam Cherubini's response says he owns a set of Hirsch chisels that he doesn't use. Maybe you should make him an offer.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
I prefer HSS.
I can sharpen them once with a white wheel and hone the edge once a month with a diamond stone.
They will cut any wood I might run across without chipping, turning the edge, or dulling to the extent that they need to be sharpened during working hours.
Rover,
I am not sure edge retention is more important than your ability to sharpen the chisels.
I have two sets of ash handled Marples chisels plus 1/8", 1 1/2", and 2"; a set of Marples ash handled firmer chisels; a set of Marples gouges with the bevel on the inside (the proper name escapes me at the moment as its late); 6 Sorby timber framing chisels and half a dozen or more Sorby turning tools. All of which are about 20 years old.
Then all work fine for me.
John
PS: They are properly called 'firmer in cannel' gouges.
Edited 7/25/2006 3:04 pm ET by pins
ROVER1
IN MY OPINION YOUR BEST BET IN QUALITY CHISELS ARE ANTIQUE CHISELS. EXAMPLE WITHERBY'S, E.A. BERG'S (MADE IN SWEDEN), JAMES SWAN. NOW IF YOU WANT CHISELS THAT YOU CAN FIND @ YOUR LOCAL WOODCRAFT THAN I WOULD RECOMMEND THE SWISS MADE CHISELS.
FREDDY ROMAN
18TH FURNITURE MAKER
Over the years, I have culled my chisels down to two sets: one from Ashley Isles and another from L-N. The Isle chisels are very long and beefy, while the L-N are small and great for detail work and dovetail work. Both are well made, but the L-N's are simply in a class by themselves when the quality of manufacture is considered. If I was to have but 5-6 chisels, they would be the L-N's. Consider getting the long paring handles to swap if you need to do paring -type work. I switch mine back and forth as needed. I would advise you not to compromise and get mediocre stuff. I don't want to offend anyone, so let me just say that some of the names on your short list are not necessarily associated with consitently good quality. Two Cherries brand gets talked up a lot here, so they must be good. I just can't get by the look of the things, but that is not important to everyone. The Japanese products are also highly spoken of around here, but I can't figure out how you know what you are buying unless you go to a select few suppliers.
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