Two questions – (I am refinishing the top & drawer fronts on an oak chest that must be ready to move Tuesday – the Mixwax was applied 3 days ago and look great) –
First, is wipe-on polyurethane any different than normal poly other than how you apply it? If there is a difference, what’s the advantage of one over the other? How long before the top could be used?
Second, is Poly a good choice to add a satin luster to the oak top? How long does the MW need to “cure” before applying the Poly?
Replies
First some questions: Since you are refinishing, the real question about what to use and whether satin varnish is your best choice depends on what the rest of the piece looks like. What was the original finish? Was it applied in a factory? Also, why are you refinishing, and in particular why only the top and drawer fronts? Are the pores filled? Also, what kind of "move" will happen on Tuesday--from shop to the house, across town, by itself in a pick-up, or in a moving van for any distance? Beyond being satin in sheen, are there any particular characteristics you want the finish to have.
Wipe on poly is essentially, down to minor details, the same as brushed on poly except for having much more mineral spirits. That means it takes about 3 coats of wipe on to be equivalent in film thickness and protection as one coat of brushed on varnish. You can usually apply 3 wiped on coats in a day, compared to only 1 brushed on coat per day, making it 6 of 1 and half a dozen of another as far as time to finish. Varnish won't reach its full toughness for a month, but will be mostly OK within a few days of the last coat being applied.
A shellac finish can be completed tomorrow and will be virtually as hard as it will get in a day or two. But it may not be right for what you want.
An oil/varnish "in the wood" finish will take about the same time as varnish, but won't have a film on the surface to be damaged.
The Minwax was probably ready to be overcoated the day after you applied it, assuming it had reasonably dry and warm location to dry, and that you didn't have problems with stain wanting to weep out of the pores. (This is a bit tricky with Minwax products, there are occasionally problems with stain not curing well.)
Steve -Thanks for the info - I guess I will use a brush!This is volunteer work for Household Goods Recycling Ministry. This is a donated item that will be sold to defray OH. Tuesday afternoon it gets taken to the consignment shop or auction site in a van with lots of other items.I only plan to coat the top with Poly - the drawer fronts were sanded and stained because they needed it and they were easy to do. I have no idea what the original finish was/is. That's part of the reason I am just using Poly on the top. The stained drawers (three coats) look pretty harmonious with their surroundings. The pores have not been sealed.Doug
Personally I would want the drawer fronts and case to be topcoated with varnish also. It will look kind of odd for the stain to be dull and the top to have any kind of sheen.
If you started right now you could wipe on 6 coats of wipeon by tomorrow night and have a great looking piece that would probably bring more into the coffers than a half done job. Wiping on is so easy it is embarrassing--much easier and surer than brushing.
Just to be clear, if you have full strength varnish, you don't need to buy anything else--just dilute it with mineral spirits.
Gretchen
Edited 6/14/2008 1:01 pm ET by Gretchen
I'm a little confused. What do you mean by "the drawer fronts were sanded and stained because they needed it and they were easy to do."? How did you prepare the drawer fronts for the stain? What stain did you use? And, did you apply a clear coat over the stain? If so, what?As to the top, poly has fairly poor adhesion characteristics. The top probably has years of gunk on it an this must be cleaned off before applying any new finish. Wash first with rag dampened with dishwashing liquid. Then use mineral spirits applied with a green scotchbrite pad. Finally, scuff sand the surface with 220 sandpaper sanding in the direction of the grain. Finally, apply coat of dewaxed shellac to act as a barrier coat in case any contaminates are still present. Zinsser Sealcoat is a dewaxed shellac but easier is to get a can of Zinsser Spray can shellac. It too, it totally dewaxed and easier to use.Once you have the surface prepared, either brush on three coats of oil based varnish or poly varnish. You could also wipe on 5-6 coats of a thinned wiping varnish. Give the varnish at least 3-4 weeks to develop full cure before subjecting it to any abuse.Howie.........
Howie - "..."the drawer fronts were sanded and stained because they needed it and they were easy to do."? How did you prepare the drawer fronts for the stain? What stain did you use? And, did you apply a clear coat over the stain? If so, what?"
Prep = sand to 320 / Stain = Minwax Red Oak / No clear coat (yet - that's what I am asking about)"...The top probably has years of gunk on it an this must be cleaned off before applying any new finish. Wash...scotchbrite pad...scuff sand the surface with 220 sandpaper sanding in the direction of the grain."
I actually removed two layers of contact paper and orbital sanded from 80 to 320"Finally, apply coat of dewaxed shellac.."
I've read up on this and it sounds great, although I want to experiment by following with a mix of Tung Oil, BLO, and Poly. But not for this project. Minwax offered a quick way to get appropriate matching color. "...brush on three coats of oil based varnish or poly varnish..."
I don't yet comprehend the practical distinctions between varnish and polyurethane, so I cannot grasp exactly what you are saying - poly varnish instead of polyurethane?---------------------------
Gretchen -"Personally I would want the drawer fronts and case to be topcoated with varnish also. It will look kind of odd for the stain to be dull and the top to have any kind of sheen.If you started right now you could wipe on 6 coats of wipeon by tomorrow night and have a great looking piece that would probably bring more into the coffers than a half done job. Wiping on is so easy it is embarrassing--much easier and surer than brushing."And yet another varnish backer. ARGH! OK, so I read a few pages in Jewitt FINISHING - OK, now I grasp varnish a little better - and I can mix polyurethane 1:1 with mineral spirits or naphtha for faster drying - I think I've got it-----------------------Wipe the polyurethane on the entire project - I might try it for at least 1 or 2 coats and see how it looks. ------------------------THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR AN ULTRA-QUICK COURSE IN THE BASICS OF REFINISHING!
Did you wipe off the excess Minwax stain after you applied it?Let me make a couple of points. Minwax stain MUST be overcoated with a clear coat. It's not a stand alone finish so you are headed in the right direction.Varnish is made with a resin and a drying oil. That's what is meant by oil based varnish. In some cases, a urethane is added to oil based varnish making the result product into what is called a polyurethane varnish or poly varnish or poly. So poly is varnish--it's just a type of varnish.As Gretchen has suggested, thinning a varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits will make it into a wiping varnish. Wiping on a finish is almost foolproof and it is an excellent way for beginners to apply a finish.Howie.........
Howie -Thanks again. Yes I scrubbed the Minwax 15 minutes after each application. I just applied my third coat of a mixture of 50% polyurethane and 50% naptha (Jeff Jewitt wrote that it dried faster than using mineral spirits). My garage smells like a dry-cleaners.I have 3 coats on the top and drawer fronts, 2 on the cabinet front, and 1 on the cabinet sides. Later I will inspect it in bright sunlight to determine if my approach to the front and sides is working - it looks great in my well-lit garage.I am also doing a mahogany etagerie (sp? shelves for knick knacks with scrolled sides). Cabot Red Mahogany stain followed by the poly mix. I don't need the sun to know this is working - this looks outright excellent although it's slower (I can only do one side of each board at a time).
I think you are on the way. I hope you sanded the top with the grain after using an orbital sander on it. I think you said you did, but the orbital came in later.
Once you have the wipe on varnish made up, it is just as easy to do everything as it is to keep track of what surface has what on it. You can probably "get away" with 6 coats of wipe on on the sides and front, but I would go to 8 or 9 on the top surface that will get more wear.
And just a little warning, the first few coats of wipe on do not look particularly good, but then it really turns a corner and you will be rewarded. Gretchen
Let me just suggest that, if you have not done so already, let the wipe-on coats fully dry and then lightly sand with 320 paper on a sanding block. This will level the surface and make for a much nicer appearance. Then apply 2-3 more wiped on coats and you should be done.Gretchen makes an excellent point about the appearance after only a couple of coats. Wipe on doesn't begin to look good until you have sanded after the second coat and then applied the next coats.Howie.........
And I think it was Jim Kull who said when it looks really good after X coats, add one more. ;o)Gretchen
Yup, and he's my hero as far as wipe-on finishing.Howie.........
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