I’m ready to begin applying the finish to the sewing table for my mother in law. I plan to use Minwax poly, and thin it down to wipe it on. I tried to find past posts on this last night without any luck. I seem to recall a recipe that calls for a 50% thin with mineral spirits. Is this correct? How many coats do I apply and do I need to sand it out after a few coats? I really could use some help on this. Thanks. Tom
“Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand”
Replies
I have switched from Minwax polyurethanes to General Finishes Arm-R-Seal which is a wipe on tung-oil urethane top coat that gives a great tough finish and 3 coats seems to do it.
If you have already started with the Minwax 3-4 coats with light sanding 400 or 600 grit between works well. I didn't like the potential of small bubbles or minor brush strokes in the finish and the wipe-on finishes don't have that problem as much.
Where do you buy the General Finishes product? Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
You shouldn't need to thin it with anything. It's already thinned down for use as a wipe-on finish anyway. About the only thing I've done is occasionally mix the satin and gloss to get something in between but there are other ways to knock off the gloss a bit if that's what you're using. I usually end up with 6-8 coats as it goes on pretty thin. That sounds like a lot, but you can get that many coats on in a weekend without any problem. Because of the thinness, I tend to try skipping sanding every other coat, but running your hand over the surface will tell you whether you can get away with this. If you can feel any dust nibs, scuff it lightly to remove them before putting more on. 400, 600, or even 800 grit wet-dry work for me - which one depends on how the nib situation feels. After the last coat I usually let it sit for a week then rub it out with either auto rubbing compound, or Behlens Deluxing Compound. Either will leave the surface super smooth.
If you build it he will come.
Thanks. I've used the wipe on poly by Minwax before with good results. I'm glad to hear your good results with wiping on the regular poly. I'm letting the stain cure overnight, and tomorrow morning I begin with the poly. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Yikes - I read Minwax poly in your post and assumed you were talking about the Wipe-On. If you're using regular poly, you probably would need to thin it down some. Sorry for the mixup.
If you build it he will come.
Do you know how much? I seem to remember a one to one ratio of poly and mineral spirits--that seems awfully thin to me. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
That does sound like it might be too thin, but I haven't converted regular Minwas poly into wipe-on either. I think I'd start with about 25% mineral spirits and add more in if it needs it. I think as long as you get it so it flows well off a clean cotton rag and doesn't leave any sticky buildup on the rag you'd be OK.If you build it he will come.
Thanks. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
As to sanding poly between coats, my understanding is that since poly cures hard and does not dissolve when a new coat is applied (unlike shellac or lacquer, for instance), you do need to sand between every coat. This creates scratches in the surface into which the new finish flows, and the new material gets a mechanical grip on the older coat.
Sanding between coats doesn't take too long (unless you try and rush it and end up with corns on your sandpaper from balling up the too-soft finish), so it's worth doing if for nothing else than removing dust and imperfections.
But maybe sanding isn't as important if you apply new coats of finish while the previous ones are still slightly uncured. In other words, maybe if the surface hasn't completely hardened the solvent in the new coat does melt a bit of the old coat, providing a good grip.
Zolton
Here is something that should help. A friend of mine put it together years ago and it has worked well for many.
QUOTE
There are a number of suggested application regimens that are totally subjective. The number of coats in a given day, the % of cut on various coats, which coat to sand after, when to use the blade and a whole host of other practices are all minor differences between finishers. There are some things that I consider sacred when applying a wipe-on finish.
First, you can use any full strength oil based clear finish. Polyurethane varnish or non-poly varnish is fine.
If you are making your own wipe-on the mix is scientific - thin. I suggest 50/50 with mineral spirits because it is easier to type than any other ratio and easy to remember. Some finish formulators have jumped on the bandwagon and you can now get "wipe on" finish pre-mixed. If you use a pre-mixed, thinning is generally not neccessary. But making your own is cheaper and you know what's in it.
The number of coats in a given day is not important. Important is to apply a wet coat with an applicator and merely get it on. Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. Sort of swirl the the material on like you would if you were applying a paste wax. Don't attempt straight strokes. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. The applicator can be a paper towel, half a T-shirt sleeve or that one sock left after a load of washing. Then leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.
Timing for a second coat involves the pinkie test. Touch the surface with your pinkie. If nothing comes off you are ready for another coat. If was tacky 5 minutes ago but not now, apply your next coat just as you applied the previous coat. Remember, you are wet wiping not flooding. After applying the second coat, let it fully dry for 48 hours. Using 320 paper and a sanding block ligthtly sand the surface flat. Now, begin applying more coats. Do not sand between coats unless you have allowed more than 24 hours to elapse since the prior coat. The number of coats is not critical - there is no critical or right number to apply. For those who need a rule, four more coats on non-critical surfaces or six more coats on surfaces that will get abraded seems to work.
After your last coat has dried at least over night you will have boogers in the surface. You should not have marks in the surface because you ignored application flaws. You may have dust, lint and, if you live in Texas, bug legs. Use a utility knife blade at this point. Hold it between your thumb and forefinger, near the vertical, and gently scrape the surface. Gentle is the important word - no harder than you would scrape your face. If you start scraping aggressively you will leave small cut marks in the surface. After you have scraped to the baby butt stage gently abrade the surface with 320 dry paper or a gray ScotchBrite. Clean off the surface. Now, leave the area for two hours and change your clothes. Apply your last coat with a bit more care than the previous coats and walk away.
An anal person is going to have a tough time with this process. Missed spots have to be ignored. Wet wipe, don't flood. Scraping to babies butt smooth means scraping no harder than scraping a babies butt. Ignoring any of these will leave marks that are tough to get out. Getting these marks out requires some agressive sanding to flatten out the surface and starting over.
Jim Kull
END QUOTE
Finally, It works better to use a gloss varnish for all coats except the last. The flatteners in semi-gloss and satin tend to rapidly fall out of suspension when the finish is highly thinned. If you want a non-gloss finish, use it only on the final coat or two and be sure to stir the material frequently or you will end up with cloudy streaks.
Thanks. Back to Lowes for the glossy stuff....Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
I put my satin wipe on poly as well as shelllac and stain in empty glue bottles. It makes for easy appplication in charginging my pad. Also I can gently shake the bottles periodicly to keep the flatening agents and or pigments suspended in the mix.http://www.pbase.com/ishmael1/waters
Thanks. That's a great tip. I'm about to put on the third coat, after I finish sanding. It's going to take a while for the finish to build, and I anticipate 10 coats before I'm done. The good news is it doesn't take long for each coat to dry. I already like the results--it looks terrible after two coats but you can see the potential. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Evening cts...
Can't add much other than I mix my own wipe on. I cut it about 60%-40% for flat surfaces and 50%-50% for verticals such as legs and just use more coat on the verticals. I find the thinner with more coats for the verticals gives it less chance to run.
If I had to work out of one can for both for whatever reason, I would probably go with 50%-50% and just plan on more coats.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Thanks, Sarge
I'm 3 coats into it now, and the finish is beginning to build. I cut the first batch by about 30% or so, maybe 40, and it seems thin to me. I anticipate 10 coats as the table top will be a sewing table and get a lot of use. I am enjoying the process and trying something new. Appreciate the help, and I enjoy your posts. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Morning Tom..
Just a quick note I didn't mention as you ask about wipe on. I really only started using it about a year ago. Before that I became pretty proficient (lucky would be a better term as I am not the the ultra -re-fined finisher that some here are) with brushing. A very good brush is a must and even when brushing, I would cut the poly about 10%-20% as it helped flow. If you have ever used spar poly, you know what bad flow feels like. It's almost sticky like syrup IMO.
Brushing can produce excellent results and is much quicker, especially on flat, large surfaces as the kitchen table-top I am currently building. The problem with brushing is avoiding the run (especially if the piece has been pre-assembled) on vertical legs and stretchers as I see it and that's why I went to wipe-on to try to achieve better over-all results.
But.. the wipe takes many more coats to build. The other side of the coin is the brushed on takes more effort between coats. First coat is a filler and I feel it must be worked to leave basically just the pores filled. The 2nd coat covers and must be smoothed without cutting back through to base coat. The 3rd is the finish and levels any voids in the coating you have achieved with the previous 2. Then the buff out if desired.
So.. I draw from both techniques as to which is the better application for the given situation. Versatility is not such a bad thing, me thinks!
Regards as sleep calls... :>)
SARGE.. jt
Finishing is not my favorite thing and I suspect it is because I'm pretty ignorant about it. That's why I wanted to try the mix and wipe on the finish. I don't own a decent brush, although I don't know what a good brush for this would be. I've got a church member that owns a paint store, so I need to go pick his brain about all of this. I do like the wipe on technique and process. Even though it is slow to build, I think it will look great, and besides, I've got nothing better to do today than to wipe on poly and simmer the bean pot--got a huge ham bone to make 'em tasty! Happy New Year, Sarge. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
>> Can't add much other than I mix my own wipe on. I cut it about 60%-40% for flat surfaces and 50%-50% for verticals such as legs and just use more coat on the verticals. I find the thinner with more coats for the verticals gives it less chance to run.Sarge, if you are getting running, you are not using the wipe-on technique properly. Using the tehnicque I describe in my prior responce precludes ever getting any running or sagging. Not getting running and sagging is the number one benefit to using a wiping varnish.Running and sagging only occurs if your wiping rag has too much finish. As I said in my prior responce, think of the kid at Denny's who wipes your table. The wiping rag should be somewhere between damp and slightly wet with finish. You are not trying to put on a "film" of finish. If the surface looks shiny and glossy, you have applied too much finish. Again, think of wiping off you kitchen counter. Don't think of using a rag as the same as using a brush. Wipe the finish on in circular motion. You should not have any appearence of marks from the circular motion. If you do, again, you have too much finish on the rag.Howie.........
Howie...
Thanks for the tips.. I will go back and re-read the previous post. As I stated, I have only been inter-mingling the wiping with brushing and admittedly not headed to the "Finishing Hall of Fame" in the near future.
I also noted that you apply wipe in circular motion. I have been making passes length-wise with the grain with the wiping rag. Just back-tracking with the rag to take off the excessive that a probably over-wet application rag left. Without deep thought probably a cast off of years of brushing as I have done. It really never occurred to me that the principles of wiping with the thinner poly might be unique to themselves.
Even though I don't get the thrill when sanding or finishing that I get with the mechanics of reaching that point, perhaps I should make a resolution to learn more refined technique than I currently apply and hone them.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
>> I have been making passes length-wise with the grain with the wiping rag. Just back-tracking with the rag to take off the excessive that a probably over-wet application rag left.Yup, that's a carry-over from a brushing technique.Here's one relevent portion of my prior post:""Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. Sort of swirl the the material on like you would if you were applying a paste wax. Don't attempt straight strokes. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. Then leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.""Howie.........
Just an update. The sixth coat is drying now, and I'll sand with 600 grit when it's dry--starting to look good--I really like this technique and method. The coats dry quickly and I can do other things while it's drying--like take down the Christmas lights and decorations. I'm excited to see how the table turns out--I'll post a photo when done. Thanks for the tips. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Check out this thread. It has a lot of discussion on wipe on poly and should answer some of your questions.
25328.1
That helps. Thanks. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
minwax sells a poly specificaly for wiping on. I would try that route before mixing my own
http://www.minwax.com/products/protective/wipe-on.cfm
mark
Thanks. I have used it before and with good results--just wanted to try something new and different. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled