Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 29, 2009 06:40am | #1

   Was that "tip" the one where you cut a board like 5 times, somethin' like that?  Yep, seems overly-complicated.  I suppose, though, that it would track down a very, very small error.  Good for work that has tight tolerances.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   davcefai | Aug 29, 2009 09:06am | #2

   I've seen the tip he means. Cut a board in half. Butt up the ends. The resulting "board" will (obviously) be straight. Then flip one half over, rotating along the long axis. If the cut angle was not 90 deg then the resulting board will now be unstraight.

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 29, 2009 07:03pm | #7

   Hmmmm, I tried to watch the video, but the Flash froze my browser, have to look into that.  In the meantime, the following is how I've always checked.  The pictures are tune-up on a miter saw, but the same method can be used with the table saw miter gauge:

   1.  Cross-cut a wide board

   View Image

    

   2.  Flip one half of the board over, line up straight (against the fence), check for a gap.

   View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   davcefai | Aug 29, 2009 09:35pm | #9

   That's it. That's essentially what the video showed.

2. 
   Metod | Aug 29, 2009 10:19pm | #12

   FG,
   Thanks for the 'right out of my mouth' pictures <g>. I believe that's how davcefai 'saw' my description.
   I was referring to the video clip on the homepage of Fine Woodworking.
   Best wishes,
   Metod

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 30, 2009 04:59am | #15

   Any time, Metod!  Those pics are from this how-to that I posted at WWA a few years ago.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   Metod | Aug 30, 2009 05:25pm | #16

   Fg,
   I just visited your link - I am glad, because I did not think to mention that the procedure also works to check the squareness of a blade.
   Best wishes,
   Metod

3. 
   forestgirl | Aug 30, 2009 07:12pm | #20

   "...I did not think to mention that the procedure also works to check the squareness of a blade."  Ahhh, yes,  it do.  Not with the same piece of wood, though, or at least not in the same orientation.  A "tall" board for that check. 

   That "square to the table" check is such an important one.  Many's the time I thought the blade was square, using a drafting triangle or engineer's square, and yet the cutting test revealed a tiny error.  Especially on my old Jet saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   JerryPacMan | Aug 29, 2009 06:40pm | #6

   FG if you are interested the link for the 5-sided cut is below.

   http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/TheFiveSidedCut/TheFiveSidedCut.html

     

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.

   When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 29, 2009 07:04pm | #8

   Thanks, Jerry. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   9619 | Aug 29, 2009 03:04pm | #3

   Metod,
   I use the simple method of squaring the miter gauge all the time. But I learned about the five cut method when I bought my "Dubby" crosscut sled, which has a little screw that can make tiny adjustments to square. It doesn't take but two minutes, and I was able to get the square so accurately that I could put together a octagon with tape - no gaps at all.

   Of course, I didn't do a full blown test, and see if I could do that with a single cut. Tests like that are for FWW.

   Have fun.
   Mel

   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   Metod | Aug 30, 2009 05:59pm | #19

   Mel,
   "five cuts" -
   I'll do one every evening and see how I feel nest morning. :)
   Best wishes,
   Metod

3. 
   hammer1 | Aug 29, 2009 05:03pm | #4

   If you have an accurate square and a decent eye, you don't really need any tricks. Of course, your test stock has to be straight and flat and can't slip during the cut. A good set of engineers squares are a shop must have for set ups.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   Metod | Aug 29, 2009 10:07pm | #10

   I have and use engineers squares. I just do not use them, when I do not need them. If one's eyes are not good enough to see if the 'butted' pieces form a straight edge, then they are not good enough to squint into a (no matter how good) a square...
   Maybe your answer to 'why not simpler?" is 'because I can do the same task in a less simple way'.
   Best wishes,
   Metod

4. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 29, 2009 06:33pm | #5

   Metod,

   Then it's just the bevel angle, eh?

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   Metod | Aug 29, 2009 10:14pm | #11

   Bob,
   Yup, put a bevel on a drawknife with a miter gauge. You might find a new angle to your blood-letting. <g>
   Feel gooder?
   Take care,
   Metod

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 30, 2009 03:45am | #13

   put a bevel on a drawknife with a miter gauge

   Uh, not a big miter gauge fan here.  I have two but hardly ever use them, actually I used one of them once.  I can't say as I've thought of using one to put a bevel on a drawknife.  I'm all ears.

   Good to see you posting again; haven't seen you around for a while.  As to the blood letting, once is enough for me.

   Best Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   Edited 8/29/2009 8:45 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres

1. 
   Metod | Aug 30, 2009 05:41pm | #17

   Bob,I wanted to construct for you a profound post that would contain all the words: angle, miter gauge, drawknife, bloodletting. ;).Curiously, do you use a sled for all your table saw cross-cutting? I visit the Knots just about every day for a few minutes - if there is a question, usually somebody beats me to it(...with a better answer than I'd have on my mind).Best wishes,
   Metod

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Aug 31, 2009 03:43am | #22

   Metod,

   I enjoy all of your posts.  They really get my brain going, which keeps it finely fettled.

   do you use a sled for all your table saw cross-cutting?

   Yes I have several and use them all the time.  One on a 10" contractors saw that only does box joints and dados, a trimmed down version of The Ultimate Sled which has been dubbied, a regular crosscut sled and am now making a bevel cutting sled (TS blade tilted @ 45°).

   Miter gauges, who need 'em.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Aug 31, 2009 04:45pm | #23

   Miter gauges, who need 'em... Bob

   Someone might argue (not me at the moment as I have an assembly to do) that a sled is nothing more than a double barred miter gauge. I have two Incra's and sometimes use both with a sacrificial fence attach to both on wide long stock.

   Now.. I have never used a sled.. never built one and simply just not familiar with what I am going to ask which is two questions really. Hopefully you can shed some light as I have considered a sled but...

   How do you cross-cut 3" stock when you lose the thickness of the sled bottom? Probably not many cross-cut 3" stock but I do and often cross-cut 4" stock.. So.. a legitimate question for me before I build one.

   If you have 14" in front of blade (I do with my 5 HP TS) how do you cross-cut a 20" piece? Do you have to support the work in some way with the miter tracks pulled that far out of the table? Strangely enough.. in 38 years I have never seen a sled in actual use doing the two things I mentioned. I have seen many in shops used.. just not doing those two chores which I do rather often.

   Thanks in advance as I'm off to assemble...Sarge..

   Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia

3. 
   boilerbay | Aug 31, 2009 05:10pm | #24

   Sarge,I use both. sleds and gauges. I have the same exact problems/concerns with the sleds. (i.e. longer than entrance landing and thicker than sled.) I still have an Sommerville Excaliber sliding table but I don't use the big stuff much anymore, except for table legs and it takes up a lot of space. Use to use it a lot for panel stuff. I move the saw around more now so without a movable base the size of an aircraft carrier.....
   Some times it's just a rock and hard spot.Kind of like the double barrel approach -- dueling Incras. mmmm... beginning to hear banjo strains. Must be a more northern Georgia thing. After all, you are North of I-20 Ha ha ha.Boiler

4. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Aug 31, 2009 11:17pm | #25

   Rare occasion I use the two together as I have a 12" SCMS with extension that can handle 16" long stock but.. on occasion a special need will come calling and I won't hesitate to go with the double barrel. haha...

   Yep.. north of I-20 and proud of both being there and outside the peri-meter. About the only time I go to town is for IWF every two years and I wish they would move it out of town. :>)

   Have a good day, Doc...Sarge..

   Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia

5. 
   boilerbay | Sep 01, 2009 12:05am | #26

   Sarge,You shouldn't go in again without a soft top as the Yankees in midtown don't trust anyone out side the wire.Thought Gov.Sonny Boy was gwana giv you a new perimeter-30 miles further out...and a new airport. Then you could chopper into the IWFs and into Highland. ;)Take care,
   Semper Fi
   Doc

6. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Sep 01, 2009 01:28am | #27

   Especially if I'm totin' as I have a concealed weapons permit but wear it open in town to send a message. I'm a bad boy.. I know.. haha

   Doubt they can afford a new perimeter at this point with the economy the way it is. They were talking about building the airport here in Lawrenceville as Briscoe Field has jet lenght capacity and quite a number of Lears.. Jetstreams.. etc. kept there. But... the voters here shot it down as there is enough sprawl and problems as is. The day they put an airport on this side of town will be the day I pack up and head to Savannah or Asheville. :>)

   Now... I do miss the Varsity but.. there is one out on Jimmy Carter Blvd. which is 13 miles away.. A southern man has to have his hit of chili dogs.. fries and onion rings after they walk the dog down that assembly line they have. If Amercan Industry has been as efficient as the Varsity "dog line" we would not have to have gone offshore. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..

   Regards and Semper Fi.. DocSarge..

   Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia

7. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Sep 01, 2009 04:00am | #28

   Sarge,

   OK, you lose the height, no way around that one with sleds that I know of.  As for crosscutting 3 to 4" thick stock I use the RAS.  Hell  with stock 14 to 20" wide and 4" thick, if it's much over 8' long I couldn't lug it up to the woodshop enneway.  But you're a lot younger than I am.  :-)

   Seriously though, as you know I made a sized down version of The Ultimate Crosscut Sled from the magazine and it handles the big stuff for me but thickness is another matter all together.  The thickest/heaviest stock I've processed on the sled is 2 1/8" x 7" x 6' ash billets with not any problems.  But I will freely admit that was prolly close to my limit.

   The sled has an outrigger beam that really makes a big difference when handling large stock, especially sheet goods.  Provides for a nice big stable platform for large stock, large stock for me that is.  What I really like is that with it I can quickly switch between ripping and crosscutting on the TS.

   Truth be told, I knock down all stock outside the woodshop with a Skilsaw or the RAS as I'll sacrifice the small amount of waste.  I just don't see me crosscutting stock that big with a miter gauge though, or even two gauges.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

8. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Sep 01, 2009 07:00am | #29

   Thanks Bob. My SCMS will cut 16' long and 4" deep but.. I prefer to use the TS with a miter as you do get some deflection with a 12 blade. I have a 10" TS but... I can cut 4" thick on it as I drop a 12" blade on and use a Freud 1" to 5/8" reducer bushing to make it all work.

   BTW.. anyone that might consider using a 12" blade on their 10" TS the reducer bushing makes it a very easy task but.. but.... be sure to see if your TS can handle the width of a 12" blade fully raised in your insert opening before you purchase one. My TS has a very large opening about the size of the old PM 66 and it works beautifully performing that task.

   Regards...

   Sarge..

   Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia

   Edited 9/1/2009 12:00 am ET by SARGEgrinder47

5. 
   mike4244 | Aug 30, 2009 03:56am | #14

   Here are two ways to easily square up a miter gauge.

   This is the best way if possible, take the miter gauge and hold it upside down while pushing into the miter slot of your saw. Makes no difference ,bandsaw,cabinet saw etc. Then tighten the lock knob. The miter gauge is dead square.Because it is upside down the cast portion engages the front of the table.

   My saw has the fence rails in the way to do this. Instead I made a dado in a mdf scrap board that is square to the board. The dado is 1/2" deep ,the miter gauge slider is 3/8" deep. When I slide the miter gauge up the cast gauge hits the front of the mdf, then I lock it tight. This way I do not have to turn the miter gauge upside down. I also did the same for 45° but in a second board. Probably could have done both in one board if I planned better, thought of the 45° slot afterwards.

   I have never heard of the five whatever way , simple is usually better.

   mike

    

    

1. 
   Metod | Aug 30, 2009 05:55pm | #18

   Mike,I like your idea too. I'd still want to make a test cut, though. You know, about the 'wet paint' signs - got to touch the bench...Now for the speed: I'd have to remove my fence rail (front or back) first, so that I could butt the miter gauge against the table. Of course, I could spring for another saw that would not be so pesky <g>.
   Best wishes,
   Metod

1. 
   mike4244 | Aug 30, 2009 07:19pm | #21

   I also mentioned I had the same problem on my tablesaw,that's why I gave a second option. The mdf scrap works just as well, you just have to find it when you need to.

   mike