While there’s an ongoing discussion of ash for a workbench, what about white oak for a bench top? I just had a big one come down when the storm came up the east coast. Some of the sections won’t make good boards, but I think I could get quite a few pieces that would finish out to 1 1/2 X 2 1/2 that could be laminated into a bench top.
Pete
Replies
If you have a ready supply of white oak, I think it would make a terrific bench top.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Pete,
please don't use white Oak.. I love the wood but not to hold tools..
white oak is extremely high in Tannic acid which just isn't good for tools (unless you like rusty tools)
Ah, It won't disolve that plane the moment you touch it but if you set it on bare wood and somehow moisture gets there, you are now making acid..
Oh sure if you are scruplus about keep a protective coating on it it won't hurt, but when is the last time you ever saw a work bench (other than new) in perfect condition?
Hmm. Does red oak have the same problem with tannic acid as white oak?
I just finished the base of a new bench using red oak. I have a prefab maple top to which I am about to glue a red oak apron (for no better reason than that I have a bunch of red oak sitting around and it's a tough heavy wood). It's not too late for me to switch over to a different wood for the apron and use the oak for something else.To the man with a hammer, all the world is a nail.
MaxYak
Oops I guess I should have said that the bench top shouldn't be made of white oak. What the rest is made of is not at all critical. Well anything that tools can rest on or in shouldn't be either white oak or black walnut..
`
Red oak doesn't have that issue..
Red oak has a lot of it, too. If you see anything made of oak with nails, screws or anything else made of iron or steel and it has dark streaks or stains, it's from moisture and the tannic acid contacting the metal. The stains can be blueish grey to almost black. If you see a staining method for oak that inclused putting steel wool and/or nails in a jar with water or vinegar and letting the solution sit for awhile before filtering and applying to the oak, this is the same principle. The stains are hard to remove and of you have worked with wet oak or even dry oak on a hot day and your hands look kind of purple, it's because of the tannic acid and the fact that you were handling iron or steel.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Maxyak,
I haven't had the issue with red oak that I have had with white oak.. I doubt it's as high in tannic acid because red oak quickly decays compared to white oak..
Have you actually seen this happen? I ask because I use Japanese planes, which traditionally have a wooden body made of white oak, mine included, and none of my blades are rusting.
wilbur,
My bench is oak, and I haven't had any problems with tools rusting. Well, there was the time the mice peed on a chisel. It got rusty, pretty quick.
Regards,
Ray Pine
Ray,
I think you must mean "micturated". (Micturating mice....Mmmmmm). There is a euphemism for everything.
Lataxe, being Proper.
Lataxe,
You are a scholar, and a gentleman. I apologize if I offended your delicate sensibilities. No doubt micturating is to be preferred over peeing. I thought I was doing well not being pithy again.
Once while delivering a fairly heavy piece of furniture to a well-to-do household, I made the remark that I was really sweating, carrying that piece up the stairs. "Young man," the very proper lady of the house told me,"Men do not sweat. Horses sweat. Men perspire...and women glow."
Cheers,
Ray
Ray,
The ladywife certainly "glows" when she comes back from her run along the canal towpath. She drips glow.
She also glows quite a lot when the lights are low and [censored in the interests of Ray's blood pressure - The Knots Medical Team].
This discussion of the merits/demerits of oak in a bench is very useful. I have to admit I think Frenchy has the upper hand at the moment, despite the boasting.
It seems like "bench month" in Knots just now - just the job; I am larnin' loads.
Lataxe, a bit of a drip.
Lataxe,
If my wife ever glowed in the dark, I'd be more than a little concerned. Did your lady-love ever work with Homer Simpson?
While there are many woods that are suitable for use as a benchtop, I'd not (actually, I did not) rule out oak on account of its acidity. While I don't make a habit of splashing water on my planes, I have spilled water, iced tea and other beverages, even hide glue, on my oak bench top. If I wipe up the mess, no problem. If something steel lays in a puddle of water, of course it'll rust. My sense is that unless you are working green oak, contact with tools isn't an issue.
Well it's happy hour. Mebbe I'll go see if I can get a spark out of my better half. Glowing is out of the question, you are a better man than I am, Lataxe Din.
Cheers,
Ray
wilburpan,
All you need to do is splash some water on the body of your hand planes. if in a day or so you see a lot of rust then the body is made of white oak.
Look carefully at the wood.. I do know the japanese use a variety of woods some of which sorta look like white oak.. I've been fooled by the wood from rubber trees which is often called white oak but in fact has nothing to do with the oak tree..
Yes I have seen it. Put a regular nail in a white oak board and set it out in the rain.. you'll see it for yourself.
Frenchy,
I'd blame the splash of water more than the acid in the oak. Set a cold one down on my planer bed one evening the other week, and forgot about it (how the heck did THAT happen!!). When I picked it up the next morning, there was a ring of rust on the cast iron where the bottle had been sitting. Don't reckon that was from residual acid from wood do ya? ;-))
Regards,
Ray
frenchy's post doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
you can always wax, or varnish the top. with oak as a work surface I always prefer a coated top.
Species matters far less than density anyway.
Jackplane,
Congradulations, You must have a picture perfect workbench..No doubt worthy of an article in fine wood working..
I'm more humble.. my work benches are a study in messines.. Sturdy, tough, but messy..
I don't worry about splashing shellac on the bench because I know it will quickly wear off. I leave my bench tops bare since that provides a less slippery surface to work on compared to finished and waxed..
I don't worry about setting a edged tool down on it because it won't slide off.. If I use a sander and it's still running I don't have to worry about marring the finish.
I toss timbers on mine and plane away. My rather crude method of keeping something from sliding is if I can clamp it I do so, if not I nail a stop block on the bench top, actaully I may nail it or screw it depending on if the nail gun is handy or screw gun.
If the surface get's too rough.I either run the DA over it or if it's really rough I have a great big wide hand powerplane and in a few minutes it's smooth and flat.
I mention moisture becuase that's what needs to start the tannic acid active. I set a glass of water or lemonade whatever on it and don't worry about the "ring" that happens whenthe glass sweats.
I suspect the differance is ego.. I get my ego by making stuff a lot of stuff and fussiness is really about my last worry.. Some here have these picture perfect workshops that look as if nothing ever get's made there.. That's fine but I measure my output in tens of thousands of board feet.
I have a snow shovel to scoop shavings up once I have a least a pickup full, I may only clear a portion of the workbench off if that's all the space I need to work safely and quickly..
Differtant goals for differant people. Jackplane you aren't wrong the way you do things but I have a much higher ambition level than apparrently you do..
Did you leave your pills at home?
What's with the vituperative angry post???
Your post said "if somehow moisture gets in there". I think that's unlikely unless the roof leaks or one spills coffee all over....
All I said was it's a good idea to wax or varnish a white oak benchtop. Any benchtop, in my opinion.
If tools fall off, build a tool trough at the back end.
Edited 9/8/2006 4:27 pm ET by jackplane
Dear Jackplane,
I'm really sorry if you took my post in the wrong manor, I honestly was trying to be decent which is why I said you weren't wrong, mearly differant from my approach.
I think I listed a couple of ways for water to get on a work bench and I believe they would be common.. I hadn't thought of spilled coffee but that's another source.
I gave a real reason why my benchtop isn't waxed or varnished. To be fair I believe most benchtops start out that way and simply thru use wind up pretty scared and nicked up. I'm kinda wierd because I'd rather see that then the perfect workbench.. To me those scars and nicks are character, telling the story of things created.
I can honestly see why wood workers would treat a workbench like a piece of furniture, a good one takes that much work and since they look at it all of the time take a great deal of pride in their efforts..
Me, I'm crude. Not because I think I'm superior but because the workbench is simply a means to an end.. when this house is finished and I no longer need a workbench mine is going to go in the firepit.. I need the space more than I need the bench..
"but I have a much higher ambition level than apparrently you do.."
That's what you said. It seems on this subject your only ambition is to shout longer and louder than anyone else.
That doesn't make you Tage Frid, dude.
jackplane,
I'm building a double timberframe by myself. not from a kit but from sawill lumber Hardwoods like white oak and black walnut etc.
..
I need to dry, plane, cut mortice and tenions and whatever else, champher & finish the timbers inside and out..
Plus I am doing all of the trim work, finish work, Flooring, etc.. (all from the same sawmill lumber)
It's 5500 sq ft house..
As near as I can tell from your posts you make furnature..
I'll give you that your furniture is probably very fine stuff.. No doubt excellant craftsmanship, real things of beauty.
As for my timberframe. well I've made some errors. Some are not correctable and I will be forced to look at them for the rest of my life.. It's a little differant when you use 20 feet long 12x12 black walnut timbers or similar sized oak timbers.. errors can't be corrected like they can with furnature.. In addition if you need another board it's quickly obtainable. If I need another timber Often I need to find a tree large enough to make whatever size timber is needed. It took my sawmill three years to get enough black walnut timbers for me to finish the south and west side of the house.
I'm doing this while I live in the house.. Some errors had to be let go simply because I couldn't wait while the sawmill searched for a replacement timber..
I say that not as bragging but to compare ambitions..
3/4 of the way thru the project I suspect that you are the more rational one.. A hobby sure, but this is beyond mania..;-)
I don't think I've ever shouted, if I have It's because I hit caps lock accidently and as soon as I noted the problem I corrected it.
If I repeated explaining what I am doing it's because I have no way of knowing which person is familar with my task. If you've been following my progress the past 6 years I have no doubt frequently repeated things. I apologize if that offends you. maybe I am boring. I really only do three things with my time, work, work on my house and on occasion relax chatting with people.
I realize that most here make furnature but then they should name the magazine fine furnature.. I am radically differant from those over at fine Home building because they mostly bang together stick built homes. They don't build timberframes from sawmill limber, oh, a few rare people may assemble single timberframes from kits. Mostly with pine or other softwoods. But in the past 6 years I've not heard of anyone who does what I'm doing..
I don't think that's bragging. I've always been told that bragging is talking about something you aren't doing or going to do. It's simply telling when you have done it..
frenchy,
From reading your posts over the years, I'm sure you're a solid craftsman.
Yet , building timberframes does not denote any greater ambition than someone who builds furniture, or violins, or any thing else.From your logic, if I built massive lodges for the Nat'l Parks, I'd have more ambition than you.
I'm not a hobbyist. I was a cabinetmaker for years, now I build exhibits. I've done home construction(still doing it) albeit with chisels, not slicks.
I think we've gotten off-track. Anyway, I can only wish I had giant timbers of walnut to work with...
best,
JP
jackplane,
Thank you for those thoughts, well said..
I have an old barn that has a white oak work bench in it and I estimate it is about 75 years old and the top is relative new. My best guess that it will last approxmately 600 more years unless something starts eating on it. So I estimate an oak bench top should last about 675 years.......for those wanting to know if an oak top is a good choice. My woodshop bench is hard maple. I wanted something to last between 700-800 years. Oh come on Lataxe, don't you see any humor in that!
Damned throwaway society, seven or eight centuries and you're ready to chuck it.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
D,
I have suddenly realised that I should be doing my duty as a Modern Consumer, so my new bench will be made of cardboard, which will last approximately one planing, sawing and chiselling session.
Of course, I can then have a new colour every day. Perhaps B&D will be selling them soon?
Our bin men (garbage collectors) collect cardboard for recycling, so that will be alright. Perhaps you can get a discount if you buy ten at once?
As to American White Oak - I understand it lasts only half as long as the stuff from England, France or other Continental source. I believe a bloke down our street has one of them Roman galleys he found in a local swamp. Of course, the tanin and the bogwater have combined to make the whole thing go black. :-)
Lataxe, a Yurpeen.
Continental cardboard must be of a higher quality than the Colonial stuff we have here, I've had a devil of a time with the mortise and tenons I cut in it loosening up.
Setting my pipe on the bench gives a whole new meaning to B&Ds FireStorm logo!
I'm really liking the idea of the Roman galley bogwater bench in stylish black though.
I noticed you put your town in your profile so I went to google earth and had a look at the aerial pictures, what a beautiful place.
Don, Turning big leaf maple on the lathe today.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled