I am refinishing a child’s table and chair set for my grandson. The set is made out of maple and some time in its ~ 60 year life someone painted over the stain with a hideous green paint.
I used a chemical stripper to get the paint off. then I thoroughly sanded. next I used Varathane Gel Stain. I let the stain dry for 48 hours and then used Varathane clear spray lacquer. I left that to dry for 24 hours. I then lightly rubbed down with steel wool. I then polished the table using a clear paste wax using a cloth applicator. I noticed that I was picking up a bit of the stain on the cloth which seemed odd. On one of the chairs I decided to change the application of the wax and used some #0000 steel wool as an applicator.
It pulled up all of the stain.
What did I do wrong? What do I need to do to fix it?
appreciate any guidance. thanks.
LT
Replies
First, I've got some questions.
How thoroughly did you wipe off the gel stain after you applied it? What color was it?
How many coats of the spray lacquer did you apply? Were these thin coats or fairly wet?
What brand of paste wax did you use?
"What brand of paste wax did you use?" Heh, heh, I know where we're going with that one!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Steve,I wiped the gel stain pretty vigorously. I tried not to leave any "thick" spots. not sure why the colour matters but to answer the question it is red mahogany. As to the spray lacquer I applied 2 thin coats and following the directions waited until the first coat was tacky before applying the second.
as to the paste wax its Liberon Black Bison Clear.hope this helps with the forensic analysis.
Hmmmm, looking at the MSDS, it appears the solvent in Liberon Black Bison is Naptha. Could be your culprit. I was betting on original Briwax, which uses Toluene, and is great for old furniture, but wreaks havoc on new finishes.
It'll be interesting to hear what Steve has to say.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 9/18/2009 1:30 am by forestgirl
I'm not sure what happened since you wiped off excess stain. That was my first suspect. Heavy stain may not cure properly for a very long time, but wiped off well, 2 days should have been ample.
My next suspect was that the solvents in lacquer, which are strong solvents, may have lifted the stain, causing it to bleed into the lacquer. That wouldn't be too likely with sprayed application in thing coats but possible. It would have been less likely if the second coat had waited until the first was fully dry, not just tacky. I'm not sure that it can be ruled out entirely.
Yes, Briwax was a suspect, but that wasn't used, and naphtha in the black bison isn't a notably strong solvent in the same was as toluene. If if was involved, I'd bet there was already a problem with the lacquer.
edit: I'm not finding a Varathane spray lacquer product on the Varathane web pages. Can you help us with more complete description from the label.
Edited 9/18/2009 7:51 am ET by SteveSchoene
Steve,I wanted to get back to you to a) thank you for helping me out and b) answer the question you raised about the spray I used. the front label says:
varathane professional Clear Finish . the back of the can reads:
"Varathane Professional Clear Finish , our fastest & finest clear coat product. DRY TOUCH IN MINUTES. One day finish for fine furniture...Directions: spray at room temperature surfaces must be clean, for best adhesion sand surfaces prior to application.shake one minute. spray light coats with smooth sweeping mortion to avoid runs and sags. allow surface to become tacky between coats."Under First Aid it says: contains aliphatic naphtha, acetone,propane n-butane methyl ethyl, ketone, butanol,and toluene. again thanks for your help.
giraffelt ,
You said you applied two thin coats of spray lacquer , waited till the first coat was tacky then applied the second coat.
Typically you need to lightly sand lacquer between coats , this smoothes things out and gives more tooth or better adhesive properties while building the finish.
My guess is a rather thick heavy bodied gel stain , with perhaps not enough of a film coat ( lacquer ) to adequately seal it up. If you would have sanded after the second coat and sprayed 2 more coats on , a much better finish could have been accomplished . I did not see if you ever sanded the lacquer ? In this case the stain may have been thicker then the lacquer sort of a lopsided finish perhaps .
regards dusty
I am no finishing expert by any means, but could there be some stripper that never got removed/neutralized?Just a thought...........Rich
Is the lacquer you used a shaker can spray lacquer of a lacquer you sprayed out of your own gun?
The reason for the question is that spray can lacquer is mostly propellent and thinner. There is very little in the way of lacquer solids. It takes a number of coats to build up even a minimal film. For shaker lacquer is spray at least 6-8 coats.
If you are spraying with your own gun, the above still partially applies. Lacquer is a thin finish and it takes a number of coats to get to a satisfactory film thickness.
Finally, the solvents in lacquer are quite aggressive and can negatively react with and soften oil based finishes.
thanks to all who replied.
It was indeed a lacquer from an aerosol can so I think Howard and other are right about not building up enough of a top coat.
My real mistake of course was I didn't try out the finish combination on a test piece - when will I ever learn.
Now my question is how to undo the damage. Can I wipe down with mineral spirits, will this ruin the stain on the part I didn't touch?
The solvent for lacquer is lacquer thinner, and not mineral spirits. The lacquer thinner will probably affect the stain also as it is very aggressive. Mineral spirits will not affect the lacquer. You will probably need to do much repair to get back to the original stained color.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
thanks. i have a lot to learn about finishing. for the woodworking pieces I build myself I keep things simple. No stain and I stick to an oil varnish finish. I have used shellac or a brush on water based top coat when I needed a clear film finish. But thats about the extent of my finishing skills. In part that is why I decided to try the spray on lacquer - I guess I learn the hard way.LT
Yeah, I always do some test pieces. Lately, for the cost and time and convenience of having a perfectly dust free finishing area, I have a pro do it. Regards, Scooter "I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled