Replies

1. 
   RickL | Dec 30, 2008 11:22pm | #1

   Lithium batteries are the best thing going. For the DIY, what's your problem with Ryobi. Suggest you go back and look again. We have a commercial shop with many brands such as Makita, Milwaukee and others and the Ryobi isn't bad plus you can buy basic tools without batteries to add to the collection. A cordless recip or Jigsaw saw for $50 is a no brainer.

   Forget the 3/8"...1/2" is the only way to go.

2. 
   marti038 | Dec 30, 2008 11:43pm | #2

   I bought a DeWalt 18V Cordless Impact/Drill Combo about 2 years ago and I don't know how I ever lived without it. I paid around $??? for both tools, 2 batteries, and a charger. The drill has a 1/2" chuck. I wouldn't buy 3/8 either if I were you.

   I used to sell these tools, so I didn't bother telling you what I really paid. I could have purchased similar Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee models, but I saw fewer DeWalt's come back and their batteries seem to last a little longer.

   I don't really think you'll go wrong with any of these brands, but I love my DeWalt's. I hope this helps.

   Oh, I ALWAYS read reviews on Amazon about tools when I'm faced with a tough purchasing decision. User reviews can be an excellent tool for finding the right tool.

   -Curt 

3. 
   terrylee86 | Dec 31, 2008 03:24am | #3

   My advice would be to go with a combo package for the cost savings and with a reputable and durable tool. I have always been a Panasonic guy because of the superior batteries,but I bought this combo last year and it out performs any cordless tool I have ever used. Don't let the 18V scare you because this is lithium-ion and it is quite light for 18V. If had to use one set this is what I would use. If you want hammer drill capability get the 211,http://www.tylertool.com/lxt211.html just a driver-drill get the 201.http://www.tylertool.com/makita121.html

   
   

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   Edited 12/30/2008 7:31 pm ET by terrylee86

4. 
   oatman | Dec 31, 2008 05:08am | #4

   Well, here's my two cents, which is probably worth about that. I'm not a pro either, but do put my tools through some intense paces. I recently bought a Makita 18v Driver/Impact driver from HD and I love them. The impact driver has a scary amount of torque. I have broken off a few screws. The batteries can be charged in 15 minutes. I think the combo cost 270 bucks, which was alot for me, but worth every penny.

   I gave up trying to figure out what's made where. If you think about it, the keyboard I'm typing on, the monitor I'm looking at, and the mouse pad were probably made in China. Like it or not, this IS a global economy and I'm not about to withdraw from the world becasue I can't get a tool or computer made in the US.

   Dennis

   
   

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   Edited 12/30/2008 9:09 pm ET by oatman

5. 
   Quickstep | Dec 31, 2008 06:12am | #5

   I also bought the Makita combo kit and love it. The only downside is that with the combo kit, you only get one battery per tool. That said, I find that having a drill for drilling and a driver for driving makes the batteries of each last much longer. When charging is needed, it's fast.

    

   I got mine at Coastaltool.com - they have great customer service.

   
   

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   Edited 12/30/2008 10:13 pm ET by Quickstep

6. 
   wolfonce | Dec 31, 2008 06:57pm | #6

   We use the Makita 14 volt for drills and impact. We already have chargers and do not need more cases so we buy from ebay. When one wears out another is 40 to 60 bucks. We get 2 years of hard use for our money and replace batteries, also bought on ebay, once a year. If you want state of the art lithiom- ion 18 volt is really nice but spendy. We get great use out of the old 14.4, they are strong and not so pricy. I have used also dewalt 18 and bosch 24 volt. neither are any stronger they just have different features. I do however feel that the makita lasts longer. Have a great new year.

   
   

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   Edited 12/31/2008 11:06 am ET by wolfonce

7. 
   forestgirl | Jan 01, 2009 09:26am | #7

   I asked an essentially identical question a couple of months ago when we were getting ready to build our Ipe deck.  Needed tools that could work in this hard-as-iron wood.  Purchased the 18V Lithium ion Makita set from CPO Makita (a refurbished set).  They have performed way beyond my wildest expectations.  Compact, powerful, long-lasting, and charge in 15 minutes! 

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
8. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 01, 2009 04:28pm | #8

   In the world of cordless tools, you really do get what you pay for.

   When you're not going to be using a cordless tool on an all day, every day basis, it is sometimes hard to justify the higher cost of a Panasonic or Makita over, say, a Ryobi.

   But if satisfaction and performance are important to you over the long term, then it is an easier decision.

   Your other questions:

   Batteries: Lithium is the coming thing, but I honestly don't think there are dramatic performance differences between the 3 types of batteries available.

   Where to buy: I vote for the tool stores, rather than the home centers. The latter are notorious for cajoling/forcing tool makers to shave price points to get their product on the shelf. Dewalt is one of the leading culprits in this game.

   1/2" vs. 3/8"? -- Most of the better mfgers have gone to 1/2" because of its greater capacity.

   Impact driver? Great tool, but useful mainly for construction projects (like decks, where a drill driver is pretty useless), or if you are doing a lot of cabinet installs. Overkill for typical cabinet making chores.

   Origin? Like it or not, we live in a world economy.

   Combo kit? Makes economic sense for the first purchase, and sometimes for later purchases just to get the batteries. But at some point you end up with too many chargers and drill bodies.

   That said, you will find it a great convenience to work with two bodies -- one for drilling, a second for driving screws.

   Best Brands? No good measuring stick, but Panasonic and Makita still seem to be on the top of the heap. The problem here is that once you make a decision, because of the batteries, you are then locked into that brand. People tend to tout and argue for whatever brand they chose --- mainly as a way of justifying their original decision.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   bones | Jan 01, 2009 06:16pm | #9

   I too went with the Makita set with driver drill flastlight charger two LI batteries.  Watch Amazon, they go on sale regularly. It's been a wonderful replacement for my old craftsman that died after many years of faithful service. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

2. 
   terrylee86 | Jan 01, 2009 06:19pm | #10

   I held most of the same opinions until I purchased the Makita LTX. I have three Panasonic 15.6 Ni-MH tools and have used them with great confidence and pleasure. I had one where the clutch disintegrated and became spare parts. The statement that the 3 batteries perform about the same is way off base. If I leave my Ni-MH batteries for a couple of weeks unused they are dead. The Li-Ions have a full charge if they have set over the summer(I fish all summer, WW all winter) and the charge lasts much longer on the Li-Ion batteries. I would not even consider Ni-cads; their lack of longevity has been has been a problem for years. Battery memory is also a problem for Ni-cads and Ni-MH, where it does not seem to be an issue for Li-Ion batteries. There is a reason all the hybrids and electric cars are all using Li-Ion technology. All that said, a plug in tool is still the best bang for the buck, but you cannot beat the convenience of battery powered tools.

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 01, 2009 07:49pm | #12

   Even among the upper echelon tool brands, I think you will find an occasional clinker. The difference is, when you do have one, the manufacturer will generally bend over backwards to either fix or replace it. What you say about NiMH batteries loosing their charge when not used for long periods of time is true, but I would still argue there is little difference in performance among the 3 types. I think it is notable that even after the NiMH technology was widely available, Festool chose to equip their newly introduced cordless drills with NiCads, which is still the case with one of their models (the more recent offering uses NiMH). Price never seems to matter with Festool designers, and they always seem to opt for what they consider the best technology available.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   terrylee86 | Jan 02, 2009 06:06am | #15

   Festool is not the benchmark for cordless tools. Sanders, routers, Dominoes, and plunge saws, yes, but not cordless tools.  I have all of those Festool tools and they are the best, but I had one of their cordless drills and needles to say I do not anymore.  It could not touch my Panasonic 15.6 3.5AH drill.  The Festool was gutless compared to the Panasonics.  I have three and no it was not just a bad tool it was the drywall dust that ate it's clutch, my bad.  Cordless manufacturers are limited by what battery they can buy, because Panasonic is the only tool company that makes it's own battery.  I read where that is how they got involved in tool making in the first place. 

    I always look at Ridgid at HD for any cordless tool before I buy one because they have a lifetime battery replacement warranty.  I just don't like the feel of the Li-Ion drills from Ridgid, but I always check.

2. 
   observer | Jan 02, 2009 09:42am | #19

   I disagree with your assessment of battery types as well.Lithium batteries are far lighter than the others and also have a more consistent output in that they don't gradually lose power as the remaining charge reduces. No need to run the charge right down before recharging in order to prevent battery memory either. One other bonus is that the batteries have charge indicators that show remaining charge so no getting stuck at the top of the ladder without sufficient charge to finish the job.The single drawback I've noted is that in really cold weather performance suffers and the battery should not be charged in cases of extreme cold. It needs to be warmed up first.

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 02, 2009 07:17pm | #20

   Comments to you and others:Charge differential: Yes, Lithium holds its charge, but this is a double edged sword. I have been caught mid-screw or mid cut with lithium batteries, whereas the NiMH depletes steeply, but more gradually, so you know when to switch over to a freshly charged battery.Memory: Nicads do have a problem with this issue, but not the NiMH batts. Weight: Lithium batteries are about 1/2 lb lighter than machines of comparable size with NiMH batts. I don't regard this as significant, but I understand others might. See this comparison of Panasonics:http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelComparisonResults Cost: Right now, Coastal is offering a twofer on Panasonic 15.6v batts, which makes them about $45 each. Lithium replacement batteries are north of $150.http://www.coastaltool.com/panasonic/panasonic-battery.htmFestool: I thought it was an odd decision of their designers to go with Nicad technology when NiMH batts had taken hold in the market. But when reviewing the rest of their tool line, you have to believe these people are shrewd and know what they're doing. That's all I was saying............In sum, when considering cost and performance, I still don't think lithium batteries are sufficiently superior to NiMH to justify selecting this technology -- at least for now. ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 03, 2009 06:47am | #27

   Nikki, "north of $150" ?!!!  Where do you get your info?  Replacement batteries for my Makita run $75 (1.5 Ah) to $99 (3.0 Ah), or $85 ea. if you buy 2; or, for those big users, 10-pack for $750.

   CPO Makita (didn't check any other sources).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

3. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 03, 2009 09:14am | #28

   In doing search for that last post, I came on one lithium replacement battery for $174.I was looking only at Panasonic stuff, not Makita.I will look again............ maybe I got it wrong.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

4. 
   dgreen | Jan 03, 2009 09:35am | #29

   Here's a 14.4 Panasonic Lithium Ion for $79. 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

5. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 03, 2009 10:15am | #30

   the perils of swimming through websites too quickly....................The "north of $150" came from looking at Panasonic's higher level industrial line, like this 21.6v battery for $160:http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Supplies-Accessories/Building-Lighting-Products/Cordless-Tool-Accessories/model.EY9L60B.O_11002_7000000000000005702The same site lists the more conventional 14.4 lithium battery at $108, but as you point out, obviously available at a discounted price elsewhere:http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Supplies-Accessories/Building-Lighting-Products/Cordless-Tool-Accessories/Battery-Packs/model.EY9L40B_11002_7000000000000005702Even if I got it wrong on the price differential for replacement batteries, I would still argue that performance differences are negligible from the experience I have had with both lithium and NiMH batteries. In other words I see no reason to throw out my Panasonics with NiMH batteries and "upgrade" to a lithium system, since I see nothing of significance to be gained. And if I were starting from scratch, I would feel comfortable buying on price comparisons between the NiMH and Lithium systems. ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

6. 
   dgreen | Jan 03, 2009 10:43am | #31

   I have a mix of ni-cad and ni-mh in two brands of tool, Makita and Metabo. Three if you count my Panasonic screwdriver. I would have preferred to stick with ni-cad but Makita did not offer them for some of the tools I wanted.

   I preferred the ni-cad due to the 1000 charge cycles as opposed to the 500 cycles for the ni-mh. I too see no difference in the functionality of the tool with the different battery types given an equal amp hour rating. The lighter weight is nice but my tools have never felt too heavy to me, and at times a little more mass is a good thing.

   By the time the lithiums came out I was already tooled up and had invested in spare batteries and smart chargers, so I see no reason to switch to lithium for hopefully a long time!

   I bought my son the Makita mega kit with lithium batteries because his tools may sit for months between uses and I think the lithium has the edge in that circumstance. 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

7. 
   forestgirl | Jan 03, 2009 06:41am | #26

   "...and the battery should not be charged in cases of extreme cold. It needs to be warmed up first."  The Makita charger conditions (or something) the battery before it charges it.  A little fan comes on, may be more for cooling it than anything, but I'll bet it doesn't start stuffing 'em when they're too cold either.  A very "smart" charger, it is.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

3. 
   forestgirl | Jan 02, 2009 08:04am | #16

   Nikki, aside from performance, the main advantage lithium batteries offers, IMHO, is light weight and less bulk.  The Makitas I have can't be much more than half the size of my Ryobi drills, fit in the hand so nicely and don't tire the grip quickly.  I would imagine a cabinetmaker would appreciate the smaller and lighter size.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   donolee | Jan 02, 2009 08:22am | #17

   Check out Ridgid. Good quality at a decent price. I've had the 18V for a couple of years now. Still going strong. And the kicker is that the batteries have a lifetime warranty.

9. 
   Lataxe | Jan 01, 2009 07:08pm | #11

   Lawrence,

   The daughters bought me a Makita 10.8 volt drill/driver + impact driver this Christmas.  Both use a small lithium battery but have plenty of torque for cabinet-making tasks.  They are half the weight of the 10 year-old Makita 12V NiMh drill/driver I have. Two replacement Lion batteries (+ charger) for the 12V Makita will cost a lot more than the new 10.8V drill/driver + 2 Lion batteries & charger set cost. 

   But if you're DIY you probably want more torque and a drill/driver that also has a hammer facility for drilling into walls and such.  You have a huge choice but the 18V Ryobi stuff looks good for a casual user.  The ladywife has a set of their 18V NiCad gardening tools which get a lot of use and stand up very well.  All three tools (hedge trimmer, branch lopper and strimmer, with 2 batteries and a charger) cost £130.  Their drill/drivers seem to be similar good vaue and you also have the option of Lion batteries now, which are significantly cheaper than the Lion batteries of other makes.

   Lataxe

10. 
    forestgirl | Jan 01, 2009 11:06pm | #13

    Lawrence, if $$ is a bit of an issue, consider a reconditioned set.  My satisfaction with CPO Makita is a "10" -- the kit was near-pristine, only a few hard-to-see scratches on the bottom of one battery indicated it was pre-owned.  May not be the case with every set, but a good sign.

    The link I provided above is for their reconditioned combo-kits.  Right now they only have the 10.8V for drill-driver/impact set, but new sets appear regularly.  We saved well over $100 on our set.  Who knows, 10.8V might be enough for your tasks.

    Another point, not mentioned above:  the impact driver is fantastic for dismantling old cabinets and structures.  Don't know how often you might have to do that, but for me, it turns a normally frustrating task into something easy and quick (think 3" screws exposed to weather for 10-15 years, zipping out with very few broken heads).

    aside:  country of manufacture is nowadays less important than the quality control approach of the company.

    forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
    
11. 
    Buster2000 | Jan 02, 2009 12:45am | #14

    Just my opinion but the Ryobi is worth a look. I bought one at HD on special last January for $70 with two batteries, charge and case. The lowered them to $50 a few months later and I ended up buying three more as gifts. I haven't used any of the other Ryobi one tools, but have occasionally considered buying a couple when their cheap.

    In the end it's a winner tool.

    Buster in Canada

12. 
    brucet9 | Jan 02, 2009 09:04am | #18

    I too, got the Makita 18V LIon drill/driver and impactor set as refurb from CPO Makita. They are absolutely wonderful.
    http://www.cpomakita.com/reconditioned_tools/cordless_tools/all_lxt_tools/

    Another drill driver to consider for general use is the Bosch 10.8V. That thing is small and half the weight of full-sized drivers, but the grip fills your hand nicely and it can drive up to 3" screws.
    http://bosch.cpotools.com/reconditioned_tools/drills/litheon_cordless_drills/ps20-2-rt.html

    BruceT
13. 
    [email protected] | Jan 02, 2009 10:06pm | #21

    I use the Dewalt 18V tools. 

    Part of my decision on what to buy was driven by what I found on sale.  Like you I was looking for an Impact driver, drill combo kit, and wandered into Lowes one Saturday morning and they had the combo kit of the 1/4-hex impacter, and a 1/2-inch hammer drill on closeout for $180, with two batteries. 

    Since then I have bought quite a few additional Dewalt 18-V tools, most of them as are tools on eBay. 

    The things I like about the Dewalts are: that the new Li Ion batteries will work on the old tools.  And, the breadth of their 18-volt tool line up.  No other manufacturer has as many tool types, that share common batteries. 

    Lowes and HomeDesperate used to have two packs of batteries on sale every year for Father's day for about half price.  ($99 for the two pack)

14. 
    stpatrick | Jan 03, 2009 01:49am | #22

    i have makita, festool and panasonic.   i like the panasonic 15.6 lith-ion the best. i would recommend the combo drill/screw gun and the impact driver (smoother and also quiter than the makita)

1. 
   terrylee86 | Jan 03, 2009 02:14am | #23

   I think you mean the 15.6 Ni-MH from Panasonic. They don't make a 15.6V Li-Ion product, but they do make a 14.4V Li-Ion and a new 21.6V Li-Ion line that looks great. The drill is $320 so I think I'll pass on that one. I use my Panasonic 15.6V Ni-MH all the time ,but the batteries are start to show their age. I agree i really like them.

1. 
   stpatrick | Jan 03, 2009 02:33am | #24

   they must be the 14.4 then ( i am at the office, not the shop) because they are the lithium-ion and i know they are less than 18 volts because that was initially a concern when selecting them . . . but not since i started using them.

1. 
   woodplane | Jan 03, 2009 03:10am | #25

   Hello Guy's

   WOW! I never imagined that I would get such a response to my questions.I will be well armed when I head out to the stores to compare.I was briefly in at Home Depot today and just had a peek at the cordless tools.I picked up that black and white Makita 18Volt cordless drill and impact wrench just to see what it felt like.It fit in my hand like it was made for it.Also handled the Milwaukee 18Volt drill and impact they felt awesome too.The Milwaukee  Litium Ion batterries are made in my town by a company called Moli Energy,but do not know what they are like.If anyone wants to add additional information feel free to add it,I will be reading the info

   Thanks Very Much To You All

   Lawrence

1. 
   terrylee86 | Jan 03, 2009 11:51pm | #32

   Don't buy the black and white Makita. The LTX is what you want. I think the black and white is only 1.5-2.0 amp hours. The LTX is three.
   The Milwaukee is very well thought of so that may be a good option if you can get a local source for replacement batteries.Edited 1/3/2009 3:53 pm ET by terrylee86

   Edited 1/3/2009 3:54 pm ET by terrylee86

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 05, 2009 09:11pm | #35

   Whether he needs a 3.0 Ah rather than a 1.5 Ah battery depends on the type of work he's doing, it's not a cut-and-dried "you must buy this"  sorta-thing.  The 3.0 combo outfits are signficantly (30%+) more expensive, as are the individual batteries.  We have the  1.5 Ah set, used to build a deck.  Yes, we had to charge the battery on the impact driver mid-day, but it only takes 15 minutes and by that time, we're done eating a quick sandwich, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

3. 
   paulbny | Jan 06, 2009 06:49am | #36

   Lawrence,

   For what it's worth I build and install cabinets and trim for a living, here's what I use.  I have a Bosch 10.8V (now 12V) Drill/Driver I use for hinges, knobs and hardware, a Bosch 10.8V Impact for screwing cabinets together and installing appliances and a Milwaukee 18V Li-Ion for screwing cabs to walls and doing railing systems.  Each tool has it's purpose, I like the control and torque settings on the drill/driver, the size of the Bosch impact for screwing cabs together and the power and speed of the Milwaukee for big screws.  For really big jobs, 3/8" + lag bolts and 10" timber screws I use a Milwaukee V28 Li-Ion 1/2" Impact Wrench.  Very heavy, but I haven't stalled it yet.

   I like the Li-Ion, my experience has been they hold their charge longer and run longer than Ni-Cad or Ni-Mh. However, they are cold sensitive I keep them in a box that I bring into the house each night and I keep 1 or 2 of the 10.8V batteries in my pocket while working so they stay warm.

   When deciding what driver you want, one thing you should keep in mind is what other tools are available in the system you get.  I tried real hard to use just one and still ended up with three.

   Hope this helps.

15. 
    DonNH | Jan 04, 2009 05:16am | #33

    OK, I may get flack for it, but I've got the Craftsman 19.2 volt stuff.  Have used the impact driver a lot, and have liked it a lot.  Feels solid.  Haven't used any other brand, so can't compare.

    Similar with the 1/2" drill - have used it to drill 1-1/4" holes in 2x's to run wire, & it had plenty of power & feels solidly made.

    Also have the sabre saw, 6-1'2" circular saw, & recip saw.  None are anywhere near as powerful as a corded version, but usable.  The recip saw's switch interlock is horribly designed.  You have to reach so far around the handle to depress it, that you can't keep a good grip on the saw.  Especially bad with gloves on.

    They have an option for lithium batteries, but they're very spendy.

    So, for DIY work, if you want to save some bucks look at some of their combo kits - especially when they're on sale.

    Don

1. 
   DAC747 | Jan 05, 2009 04:42am | #34

   If cost is a major concern I would check out the new Porter Cable stuff. Great price and comparing PC to others I would rate their tools behind Makita,Panasonic and DeWalt but ahead of Craftsman and Ryobi. I have used DeWalt for years and recently switched to the new Black and White Makita with the 3 ah lithium batteries. Being a trim carpenter I use these everyday installing Kitchen cabinets, railing systems, installing door knobs. The impact is always in my hand, I have an adapter for 3/8" sockets so I use it on my toys [snowmobile,boat and dirt bike] also. I never pick up a screwdriver anymore. The only bad thing with buying re-conditioned tools is the batteries are USED so if you go that route just expect them to have a short life. I picked up my [reconditioned] impact and drill/driver from a local that sells on E-bay for 235.00 with the 3ah lithium batteries and found a matching sawsall without the battery for 48.00 on E-bay. For less than 300.00 I have the Makita impact, 1/2" drill/hammer drill/driver and the sawsall with 2 3ah batteries. When work picks up I will get 2 more new batteries. I really wanted to stay with DeWalt but price wise there was no comparison.