I recently purchased some Hood Finishings Resisthane Pre-Catalyzed water-based laquer. I used it on our dining room table top I am refinishing. It sprays on great with no thinning required and looks great. I need to wet sand it, but when I wet sanded the leaf using water and 1000 grit paper it softened the laquer. What should I use for the wet sanding lubricant and how long should I wait to wet sand it?
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
How long did you wait, and what temperatures did the table face during the waiting time? .
Certainly I respect the above negative opinion of water borne finishes, but I've been using them for years and have generally been satisfied. Keep in mind though that like the solvent world not all water borne finishes are equal. Like the solvent world, some eventually become hard enough to rub out well, some may not. And water borne finish formulations continue to be improved, so what was true even a couple years ago may not be as accurate today.
You might contact the manufacturer and ask if that product becomes hard enough to rub out, and if so how long you should wait. I've heard that piano finishers allow the finish to cure for 6 months before rubbing out, but that's in part to be sure the finish won't shrink into the pores any more. In general, I'd wait at least a month before trying to level and rub out a finish, solvent or water borne.
Interesting. May I ask if anyone knows any piano manufacturers who use a water based finish?
I have applied waterborne varnishes in 90 deg F plus temperatures and still had curing problems which I have attributed to humidity. Some coats took 48 hrs to pass the fingernail test.
Curing issues
No more than 3 thin coats per day, wait 3 days, repeat X 2, blade between days of shooting. After 9 coats, wait 7-10 days, repeat. We generally are able to get a very nice filled pour finish in 12-15 coats. I found that if you get in a hurry to build, the moisture that is trapped will come out later with not so good results on your final. It might seem and feel dry and cured but it isn't.
Waterbased lac on pianos
I am a piano tuner/tech, do a lot of rebuilding and refinishing of pianos. I don't know of any piano manufacturers that use waterbourne, a lot of it is the polyester. I do have a question for anyone out there. I am having trouble with the Hydrocoat Resisthane shrinking into the pores after about 6 months, makes it look like it is cracking/crazing. Goes on great, brings up a superb filled pore finish high polish but then starts shrinking. Any help out there?
Mid-fifties is essentially the absolute minimum temperature for applying most waterborne finishes. You may very well have gotten inadequate coalescing of some or all of the finish coats if applied at such temperatures. (I have seen waterborne finish refuse to even flow out at such temperatures--just beading up in tears on the surface. At least that is obvious.) And, even if you get the initial coalescence to occur the necessary curing time increases dramatically as temperatures decrease. Resistane says it would be OK to recoat after 1 hour, but that is based on (the wood and the air at application and during the cure period) being 75° with 45 RH. At 55° the needed time might be 4 hours to get the same amount of curing if it can cure into a film at all. .
Most waterbornes are hard enough, but have short comings resisting moisture and chemicals, but a waterborne that still feels soft after a week as problems. I suspect you need to strip and start over. But don't use the waterborne unless you can keep it warm for the entire period. Even if everything has gone well, it won't be really ready to rub out for a couple of weeks of curing at reasonably warm temperatures.
Evaporative finishes such as shellac and lacquer work fine at low temperatures--lower than I would be willing to work, to be sure.
Other reactive finishes, like oil based varnishes, may continue to cure at lower temperatures, but the time could take almost a month of Sundays or so it might seem.
Hi Dave,
With all due respect, your mistake was to use a water based finish. They all stink - IMHO - regardless of the hype you may read.
Years ago I worked in the research lab for Celanese in NJ. The latex paint department. We were forever trying to balance durability against the need to keep the resin in water suspension - using 'surfactants' - soaps.
The more soap - the easier the resin 'redissolved' - softened and wore away when wet. The less soap - and the resin congealed and sank.
In short, oil and water don't mix.
Try to strip off the water-based c--p, and apply a solvent based finish. A solvent based lacquer like Deft Gloss can be brushed on - and then 'pulled over' (search this site) for a gleaming water and alcohol resistant finish without any sanding at all. You might use a shellac washcoat first.
Water-based finishes are NOT for fine furniture - and absolutely not for a Dining table.
And don't worry about being 'green'- the amount of solvents vented to the atmosphere for finishing our furniture is miniscule.
IMHO - water-based finishes sold for furniture are a fraud - and need to be exposed as such. Just my opinion, of course.
Sure, but I recommend that the product you but is light mineral oil,. rather than baby oil because of the perfume, and sometimes other ingredients, in the baby oil, You don't need the oil of lavender, or the aloe, etc. Besides pure mineral oil, available in all pharmacies, is likely to be cheaper. You will have to rinse off the mineral oil (or baby oil, for that matter) with a stronger solvent however, such as mineral spirits.
Shrinkage is a problem inherent with acyrlic waterbornes I suspect. That means you have to wait for the shrinkage before the rubbout. Bummer.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled