I was recently given a family heirloom dining table with a magnificent figured walnut veneer top and solid walnut legs. The table is 50 yrs old and in incredible condition, due to lack of daily use and no children using it.
When placing in a leaf on Easter, I noticed that the leaves are very dark walnut while the top and legs have faded considerably. The table needs a protective finish as it has only an oil finish now and I fear what water stains would do to it. Is there a solid procedure for color correcting/staining and applying a protective coat that will pop the figure and protect?
P.S. This cannot get screwed up. My mother-in-law will be watching the results carefully.
Replies
http://www.sutherlandwelles.com sells the best polomerized tung oil on the market for an easy durable wipe on finish. To restore the color to original, mix dye with the tung oil and apply in a test area first until color is achieved. Apply tung oil coats with dye and let dry, the apply just tung oil coats over the dyed coat (s) until desired effect is achieved. The first few coats of just tung oil must be applied lightly so as not to disturb the color coat too much. Obviously the table must be cleaned of all wax etc (use naptha) by using a green 3M pad dipped in naptha. The green pad will etch the surface to prepare it for the dyed coat. Apply tung oil with a gray pad (3M) wet with finish as this helps adhesion and evens out the previous coat, let sit and wipe dry. Depending on the process you use for applying tung oil remember each coat should be done as carefully as possible. For the final coat use 220 sandpaper (not black, Norton is best)lightly sand with the grain in even strokes (use a pad), to flatten the hills a bit, then finish with a dry gray pad, to hit the valleys and even the sheen for satin, and 0000 steel wool for a higher sheen or an antique look.
Ah! My thanks to you for this. I will certainly attempt first on a lesser project but this sounds like an effective approach. Thank you for your time!
Swanny, just read your post. I like wet-sanding, so try to learn anything new that comes along. So.....I'm curious about this statement: "...use 220 sandpaper (not black, Norton is best)...." Could you elaborate, let us know why??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Norton makes a 220 called 3X which is very good as far as removing and not clogging (must be used dry), so it takes less pressure to sand the item (Rockler). 220 wet or dry sandpaper leaves black in the grain when wet and for that matter when dry as well. Steel wool also leaves black in the grain unlesss totally sealed with several coats of finish, and even then it can leave small pieces of wool in the grain . 3m pads leave no color in the grain when used wet on a previously sealed piece (do not use dry on an unsealed piece). Remember to wet sand lightly with the 3M pad as removing finish is not the goal. Etching the finish is all you want to do. Different 3M pads give different sheen.
Swannyww,
Like you, I have had good luck using 3M pads, especially in conjunction with waterborne finishes that could spell disaster when combined with rusting remnants of steel wool.
As I understand it, Norton's abrasives seem to cut faster than comparable abrasives because they don't use the same grading scale as others like 3M; the abrasive particles in Norton's 400-grit are not as fine as those in 3M's 400-grit, for example.
I'm very curious about your experience with black left in the grain using silicon-carbide abrasives, as I have been sanding-in oil finishes with this stuff for years, and have never had a problem.
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Jazz, here's a chart that shows the different systems (CAMI, FEPA/P-scale) and how they compare across the board. 3M makes stuff in both systems from what I can tell; FEPA stuff would have a P-xxx for the number.
I've gotta start paying attention when I order from Klingspore -- tend to forget sometimes.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks, FG,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I did too until I noticed the black in the grain in an unstained light piece of wood, some of which comes out. I recently was called to a house to repair water damage to an unstained maple hutch. They had used steel wool and wax to try to repair the damage. The finish was completely gone and the steel wool was deeply imbedded in the grain, which turned out to be the real problem to deal with. I used naptha to remove the wax, and removed most of the wool, but a slight grey look to the damaged area was still evident. Sanding helped but even under magnification the wool was still there. The finish was water borne lacquer, so mixed some very light dye with shellac and followed with water borne lacquer.
"the steel wool was deeply imbedded in the grain, " One of the reasons I don't like using steel wool for finishing. I worry I won't get it all off, and I don't like getting those fragments on my hands. I do like it for applying wax, but the wax keeps the SW captured (I think!).
Little experiment last night: I took a small piece of Norton 3X 320 sanding sponge and lightly "sanded" a piece of black W/D sandpaper (didn't check the grit, but it was probably 400). Since the Norton was yellow, it made it easy to see if any of the W/D was rubbing off. There was a light grey cast on the sponge afterward.
I have a little aspen in my wood stash, will do a little test on a piece of that.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I've been using the Norton 3X sponge sanders recently, and they can be used wet or dry. Love 'em!
Interesting to hear about a possible problem with the black paper. I've used it with the wetsanding method primarily on red oak and not noticed any problem. Don't know if a problem would be noticeable on that wood. Jazzdog's experience would be more pertinent.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I tried the sanding sponges and they work best on curved surfaces. I cut the 3M pads, whether they be grey, green, white, purple, to fit my orbital sander pad (hook and loop) and this gives me another way to even out a finish (used dry on a finished piece) or buff it out.
Is there a solid procedure for color correcting/staining and applying a protective coat that will pop the figure and protect?
In a word, no. Trying to match the table to the leafs will be next to impossible. Going out and getting some Walnut dye (or stain) just won't cut it....Even if I could see the table and leafs by you bringing it to my shop, I'd turn you down on the color matching.
As to a "protective" coating, that too would depend on a visual inspection...This table sounds pretty "important" and has lasted 50 years with what's on it now. Why take any risks? Are you 100% certain that the current finish is oil and not a satin or semi-gloss film finish of some sort?
Dano
Thanks for your valued input. The reason I can be certain it is an oil finish is that my father-in-law had it stripped and "oiled" about 10 years ago. Since his children are long gone, the table has remained wonderful because of no chilluns and use only on the occasional holiday. I however, have six chilluns and the table sits in the corner of a large living room, drop leaves down, just waiting for the moment when our guard is also down and someone places a condensing drink on the table. I know that precautions can be taken but I also know that accidents happen.
I guess my concern is more about a finish to protect than color correcting, but both would have been great. I understand your misgivings about trying to correct color and thank you for that important bit added to my endeavor.
You're welcome, Scadaboy.
Not knowing where you are in terms of finishing skills, it's pretty difficult to recommend a satisfactory approach....
With that being said, 5 or 6 years ago I posted a primer here, of sorts, on finishing Cherry in regard to "blotching". Any who, the following is an excerpt from that posting:
...I am now ready to apply the finish. On high end pieces I French polish but, typically I use Minwax Wipe On Poly in a satin or semi-gloss. When this product arrived here a couple of years back, I was skeptical. After some experimentation I was impressed enough to incorporate this product into my finish operations. Minwax advises against the use of tack cloths with this product and I am here to tell you that it is good advice. Tack cloths do leave a small amount of residue behind that will affect the final finish. I vacuum and use compressed air to clean the piece prior to finish and sanding between coats. I recommend against the use of #0000 steel wool because of the deposits left behind.
I apply the finish, again using a clean 100% cotton "rag", wiping it on in a circular motion in sections about 2' square and then go with the grain. It is important to work quickly, feathering each section into the last section. I use 220 or 320 grit aluminum oxide with a very light touch between coats. At 70° F drying time, sanding, is about 4-6 hours. Minwax recommends 3-4 coats; I usually go with 6. I sand the second to last coat with 600 grit silicon (dry) with a very light touch.
The first project that I did using Minwax Wipe On, was my on my kitchen cabinets almost three years ago. It has proven to be an extremely durable finish.
From the sounds of it, your father in law had it stripped professionally. More than likely the top was sanded prior to the oiled re-finish. How thin the veneer is now is anyones guess. At this point my suggestion would to prepare the surface first using a clean, damp cloth (mineral spirits) then very lightly sand with 320 sandpaper and cork sanding block.
The wipe on approach, is most certainly the easiest, though not necessarily the "best". Given the kids I'd go with 8 to 10 coats for the top....Sheen is a matter of personal preferance, IMO. I'd definetly stay away from shellac...FWIW.
Dano"Form and Function are one." - Frank L. Wright
The leaves are darker because they haven't been left in to be exposed to light. Do that and they will eventually even out.
I would be amazed if a 50 year old table with a figured veneer top had only an oil finish. I would say with some confidence that if you try to put anything on this table you could truly ruin it.
As for water stains, just don't do it, for heavens' sake. Use coasters and treat the table with respect which any fine piece of furniture deserves. Use place mats or a tablecloth when using for dining. People--including children-- should be mindful of not putting wet glasses or hot things on any table.
Gretchen,
Sound advice, well said.-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
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