I have an opportunity to pick up some #1 common Walnut for what I feel is a very good price. But to date, I have never worked with anything but FAS.
So my question is this, how many of you solely work with FAS or #1 common or some combination of both?
Also, when working with #1 common, do you incorporate the defects into certain types of furniture, or cut around and eliminate the defects using only the clear that can be obtained?
PS, it is interesting to me that Oak and Maple seem to be around the same price as Walnut, at least here in my area. When I started woodworking 25 years ago Walnut was considerably more expensive than either of those….
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You're someplace in TX, right?
I'm interested to hear what you are paying for your FAS walnut, oak and maple.
Around Austin, hard maple is close to walnut in price, soft maple is less, and oak is a lot less.
Dallas area, FAS natural maple runs around $3.00 bf 4/4 rough and FAS premium (clear, white) runs about $4.00.
Doug, what lumber yard?
Austin Hardwoods for natural and Central Lumber for premium. I haven't price maple in the past 3 months so they may have changed. Austin also has a really good supply of premium cherry, rough dimensioned. If you are in the Dallas area, are there any good working clubs around. I'm in Greenville but don't mind traveling.
Doug
I'm actually in Woodway Texas, near Temple. Too far for a woodworking club that likely would meet weekday nights as most seem to do. I think I call down to Austin as you suggest....thanks...
Wow, so much wood, so little money.....
Austin HArdwood is in Dallas. Hope I didn't confuse you.
There's an Austin Hardwood in Austin too. Go figure.
Thanks for the clarification
Woodway Texas, near Temple..
I was in Fort Hood back in the very early 60's.. I never heard of Woodway....
Gee.... I miss something?
I LOVED Texas... Prettiest women on earth there..
TXJon and Doug. The only lumber yard I have used to date is Paxton in the Dallas area. Is this where you would go, or is there someplace else you would recommend?
Quoted $5/bd ft FAS Kiln Walnut...from a Dallas lumberyard
Quoted $2.50bd/ft #1 common Walnut...as above
John, what Austin lumber yards are you dealing with
Fine Lumber and Plywood is where I usually go. Every time I have called around, they have had the best prices. Their stuff has been good quality, and they let you dig through the stacks. Nice folks, too.
It's been a couple months, but the last time I checked, their walnut was about $4.50 FAS KD. They will give you a price break (about what the tax comes to) at 200 bf, but if you take the discount, you have to pull from the top of the stack.
They do sometimes have lower graded stuff for a lot less, but you'd have to ask them about it.
Using the "defects" depends on your taste, and the nature of the "defects." I bought some big slabs once, and one of the "defects" was a big area of crotch, in addition to a few other knots elsewhere. The crotch area was of course, beautiful, full of stress rays and grain switches. It now resides in a big corner shelf unit I built, and the owners love it.
Some defects are just junk, but some can be quite interesting. There are those who consider "good wood" to be absolutely clear pieces of lumber. I actually think defects can be quite attractive at times, if used in the right way. Book matching pieces with "defects" is away to make an attractive variation a real plus feature. Stuff like knots with big voids are not good.
Depends on the consumer too. Some people will reject a "defective" piece out of hand, but others will say "look at that cool piece of wood."
And where are you that walnut and oak are about the same price? Here in WI walnut is about double the price of oak.
I love defects, it gives the furniture character. My concern was when I had to make doors, those same knots are a hazard on a shaper. So I was wondering how many knots I would encounter. As I've never used anything but FAS, I really have no clue.
To tell you the truth, around here there's not that much walnut at the sawyers I buy from. Usually it's a case of buying clean FAS or "ungraded" stuff.
Most of the times the knots in walnut have some voids and get disloged pretty easy - not something a shaper would handle too well. I guess it's just a visual check thing when you but it.
Stuff like knots with big voids are not good...
I have use them.. Well, sort of... I use my bit and collar for a 'inlay' to cover.. Just depends on where that knot is! Hate to shorten a stick just because of a knot...
Bioman
Some think of them as defects, while others think of them as 'character'. I'm of the latter thought. When it comes to the customer, I simply let them tell me what they like, after looking at examples of furniture with and without 'character'.
Personally, when I get the rare opportunity to build for the home, I prefer wood with character. My wife's been waiting patiently for her china cabinet, to match the table and chairs I built for her 3 years ago. I've got some crotch cherry slabs that are absolutely beautiful, that I cut out of a tree my neighbor felled. I'm gonna slice one into veneer, and use it to face the raised panels for the doors.
When I mill logs, I always do a 'log run'. As Forrest Gump says, you never know what you'll get!
Jeff
Furniture and cabinet manufacturers use #1 a lot.....I know it's nice to look at a beautiful FAS board with few defects, but think about what sizes most of your components are (unless you're making long tables, church pews, or other stuff that may require long clear components)......the lumber grades are based around how big the cuttings are you can get out of a board once you cut out the defects, and that's what we do in most cases when we're making something anyway.
Once the defects are gone, not much if any difference between the component that came out of an FAS, and the one that came out of #1 or even #2. You'll have more waste with the lower grades, but they cost less too, and you may be way ahead in the end to use the lower grades.....that's a little counter-intuitive. FAS boards can be a little bland too, sometimes.
cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Think I'll give it a try. But how low would you recommend going. #1, #2, #3?
If you have the time, the American Hardwood Export Council has a really great book called "An Illustrated Guide to Hardwood Lumber Grades"....first few pages take you through the basics of lumber grading (National Hardwood Lumber Assoc. has great stuff also)......then it goes species by species....each species has a some basic facts about it. But the great thing is for each species, the book also has three large, full colour pictures....one picture is FAS, with 4-5 boards in it. Next photo is #1, 4-5 boards. Last photo is #2a; 4-5 boards. It is very, very easy to see at a glance what to expect when you step down a grade. All my students get a copy, and NHLA stuff also, and we do some trial grading (not that we're graders by any means, but you get the idea).
There are some really excellent resources out there by the industry orgs (Hardwood Export Council, the plywood organsiation etc.)....well worth poking around the websites and ordering some manuals if you want to build a library.
As far as how low do YOU go?.....I can't say; depends on what you want to make. Even if you buy FAS though, unless you're picking every board, some pieces will grade lower.....it's not an exact science.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Thanks good reference
The one I was thinking of for plywood is the 'Hardwood Plywood Handbook', by the Hardwood Plywood & Veneer Assoc (http://www.hpva.org) similar to the lumber one, in that it has excellent basic info about veneers, cores, matching, etc, then shows full colour pictures of what an AA face, an A , B,C,D (and E in some species) face looks like with different matches.....shows a 1,2,3 and 4 back also....pictures of what is a 'characteristic', and whats is a 'defect', etc. Super book; can't imagine any woodworker not learning a lot from it, unless you have years in the plywood business.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
It depends on what size of pieces you are making.
Boxes are easy to mke from #1.
Bed frames are harder to make from #1. (FAS is ofen not good enough.)
This will be for a mission bedroom suite. So my though was a mixture of #1 common and FAS.
There's this guy, too: http://www.mgsawmill.com
I've never bought anything from him, but if you do, and like his stuff, I probably will! If you check him out, let me know about it, please.
His prices look pretty good, especially on the oak and mesquite. You're a bit closer to him than I am, though.
I must be having a bad link day, both Adriqn and your links don't seem to be working.
Interesting how most of the mesquite I have run into down here has been in the form of fire wood. I have 2 cords out back, use most of it for bar-b-q, was thinking of turning knobs from some of it for cabinets I have recently made.
I just tried the link again, and it worked fine for me. He's charging $4 bf for walnut, $1.95 bf for PS red oak, $5.50 bf for mesquite, all FAS/SEL.
For comparison, Fine in Austin sells mesquite <8" by <6' for $10.50 bf, and most of it is pretty short and narrow.
Damn, I'm definitely going to use this guy for my next project. Thanks a lot TXjon....you da man
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