Replies

1. 
   Alan | Oct 06, 2004 11:58pm | #1

   Roger,

   I got mine a few years ago.  I use it as a dedicated miter plane with a shooting board.  I'm very happy with it; it handles end grain, and does its chores as a miter plane, extremely well.

   When I was shopping for a miter plane about the only contenders were low angle smoothers and Lie-Nielsen's #9 miter plane.  When I had revived, after looking at the price of a Lie-Nielsen #9, I ordered the Lee Valley.  It saved me about two hundred dollars (USD) over the price of the LN.

   I've tried it for regular smoothing chores.

   (My Grandmother taught me that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.)

   One reason it didn't impress me as a smoother might be that its competition was a Lie-Nielsen #4.  Still, it displayed the usual bad habits of a low angle plane on long grain.

   Alan

1. 
   rog | Oct 07, 2004 01:59am | #2

   Alan

   I am not familiar enough with these planes. I know the low angle on the end grain works very well and I tried it as a jointer and it seems to cut pretty smooth. I also have the Lee Valley 4 1/2 for smoothing surfaces I guess. I also have all the stanley's from 4 to 8 which I have a funny feeling won't be getting much use.

   Roger

1. 
   Alan | Oct 08, 2004 12:00am | #6

   Roger,

   You better drag out those Stanleys and blow off the dust, they'll come in very handy--especially the #5, #7 and #8.

   Did I understand you correctly, that you tried your low angle smoother as a "jointer?"  Whatever else that plane is or whatever it's good at, it's definitely not a jointer.  Your #7 and #8 are jointers.

   If you need to flatten the face of your stock, or straighten the edges to glue up a panel, a low angle smoother--or any short-soled plane--won't do.  A plane with a short sole will ride up and down on any undulations, taking a continuous shaving and doing nothing to straighten the board.  A jointer plane, with its long sole, bridges the low spots and cuts only the high spots.  When a jointer plane takes off a continuous shaving the edge is pretty close to straight, or the face is just about flat.

   My apologies if you already know this.  Don't confuse 'smoothing' and 'flattening';  they are very different, and are best done with different tools. 

   Alan

1. 
   rog | Oct 08, 2004 04:37am | #7

   Alan

   Thanks for the info. I understand the uses of the Stanleys but wasn't aware that the Low angle couldn't be used for smoothing. It seems to cut so much easier than the others. I guess it should be used mostly for shooting miters. You see... I buy all these things but never really use them to make anything.

   I have been working on a work bench (Franz Klaus style) for about a year and 1/2 now. Just need to finish the tail vise (almost there) and then true the top with all these planes I have purchased. I  can't believe how much work is involved with the bench. I will post pictures when done

   Thanks again

   Roger

1. 
   Alan | Oct 08, 2004 11:12pm | #9

   Roger,

   I must not have expressed myself well.  A low-angle plane certainly can be used for smoothing.  I meant to say that a short-sole plane, such as a smoother, won't do a very good job flattening or straightening an edge.  Those jobs are best done with a long plane, such as a #7 or #8.

   There are many testimonials in the archives from others who rave about how great their low-angle smoothers smooth (er...uh...um).  My experience is different: that my Lee Valley low-angle smoother doesn't do nearly as well smoothing as does my Lie-Nielsen #4.  I found it has all the bad habits usually associated with a low-angle plane that's used on long grain.  But again, I believe I'm very much in the minority.

   My Lee Valley plane excels when I use it on a shooting board.  It takes end grain and miters in stride; and I've been delighted with the results.

   Sorry for the confusion.

   Alan

2. 
   roblee | Oct 10, 2004 05:46pm | #13

   Hi Alan -

   You're right - the LA Smooth (anyone's) will not do as good a job along the grain as a standard bed angle bench plane would, if used at the "factory" bevel angle ....but if you increase the bevel angle on a LA plane blade, you can have as high an effective cut angle as you want - and should be easily able to match (if not exceed) the performance of a standard bench plane.

   I'd encourage you to try a higher bevel angle (35-45 degrees) in your LA plane....or get a second blade.... you'll find it's like having another plane....

   Cheers -

   Rob

3. 
   Alan | Oct 12, 2004 02:52am | #14

   Rob,

   It's nice to see you sneak over here from WC once in a while.

   What makes you think I haven't tried higher bevel angles?  I have.  The performance did improve, but no experiments of mine could get your plane to work as well as my Lie-Nielsen #4. 

   According to my journal, I tried it with a thirty degree bevel angle, and then added a five degree micro-bevel.  It still had problems with tear out on uncooperative, recalcitrant grain that my trusty #4 sailed through.

   (I had to experiment with higher angles because the edge rolled over when I stoned out the micro-bevel that came already ground--something I think you should stop doing.  I now use it with a twenty-five degee bevel, and when that dulls I add a five degree, or so, micro bevel.)  

   In any case, I got your plane to use as a miter plane, not as a smoother.  I suppose I could invest in more irons, spend a lot of time re-shaping bevels, and get a multi-purpose smoothing plane.  But why?  I already have two smoothers that work perfectly well without investing any more time or money in them.

   Please don't get me wrong.  Your low angle smoother is a wonderful tool.  The fit and finish are universally excellent--at the very least on a par with my Lie-Nielsen planes.  It works great, even fantastic, on end grain.  It has my highest possible recommendation for that use.

   Alan

4. 
   roblee | Oct 12, 2004 02:17pm | #15

   Hi Alan -

   I was suggesting even a higher angle than that - if you get tear-out....more like a 40-50 degree bevel angle (on a LA plane) - for a cut angle of 52-62...but the advice wasn't meant to be specific to the LA plane - I was trying to address your tear-out, mostly for the benefit of other readers...

   With a standard bench plane, you can also try a back-bevel of 7-17 degrees to acheive the same high cut angles.

   For those starting out - fewer planes and more blades is a good way to go...

   Cheers -

   Rob

5. 
   Alan | Oct 13, 2004 02:37am | #16

   Rob,

   No argument from me! and my apologies.  Of course you're perfectly correct--as always--about higher angles, how to get them and so on.  I misunderstood both what you were trying to say and to whom.  I'm sorry; I didn't intend to make a big deal out of it.  Will you still sell me some of your tools?

   My only smoother--prior to my Lee-Nielsen birthday gift--was an old brand X #3 I picked up at an estate sale for right around five US dollars.  I got what I paid for, and no more.  But after some work and a new Hock iron I coaxed pretty decent performance out of it.  It still gave me trouble on some white oak though, so I got a hardware store iron, and tried a back bevel on it.  It worked, of course.  I didn't put a back bevel on Ron's iron because I very soon got my gift.  (Why did I stop seeing her?  Hmmm...I wonder if I still have her number around here somewhere...I have my eye on your #5...)  I keep both irons for the #3 sharp and ready in anticipation of the day my L-N hits the wall.

   Alan

6. 
   roblee | Oct 13, 2004 02:27pm | #17

   Hi Alan -

   No sweat - that's the nature of BB's... sometimes the context of a reply gets lost...

   There are always a number of ways to get to and end result, and I always try to start with the one that doesn't require an additional purchase...

   Cheers -

   Rob

2. 
   cherryjohn | Oct 07, 2004 03:06am | #3

   But.....that Lie Neilsen plane is a looker..even if it is pricey

1. 
   biznazion | Oct 07, 2004 06:28am | #4

   I am addicted to LN planes. Wait check that - all hand planes, but especially LN planes. I started buying up old Stanley's off ebay a few years ago and tuning them up. But you can get a new LN right out of the box and make beautiful shavings with them.

1. 
   mgumaer | Oct 07, 2004 10:27pm | #5

   And, at least for a LN low angle jack, which I recently picked up at a WWing show at 10% off, the price was just about the same as the Veritas (about $205 versus 179 for the Veritas). I have and like both brands of planes but in my limited experience, the LNs require less fettling (none for LN, some for Veritas). But, I may be overly anal. I only paid about 10% more for LN over Veritas in this case, other planes with much bigger price gaps may be harder to justify.

   Matt

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Oct 08, 2004 06:39pm | #8

   "I am addicted to LN planes. Wait check that - all hand planes, but especially LN planes."

   Me, too. Somehow I've ended up with the low-angle block plane, the #4 smoother, the low-angle jack, and, most recently, the #7 jointer. I think the spokeshave is next. They are all terrific tools. You don't have to touch the bottom of the plane. Although the iron will cut well right out of the box, I do typically spend a while honing them (especially the back, which took a long time with the #7) and then they cut extremely well.

2. 
   Possumpoint | Oct 09, 2004 04:20pm | #10

   To Rog, I have both the LV Low Angle Smoother and Jack Plane. I am very impressed with both. For the smoother I have two additional high angle blades that allow me to use a York pitch and a 60 degree pitch on the plane. Found that on some woods, the low angle blade tended to grab the grain and lift it. In the future I'm going to get a high angle blade for the jack plane also. I tried using the smoother as a miter plane with poor results. Since it was my first try at that type work, it probably was a technique problem or not sharp enough.

   I've used the jack plane for jointing some 33" x 9/16" stock for glue up and it handled the job quite well. It then did an excellent job of smoothing the stock after glue up. With the additional weight and a 3/16" thick blade it might be a better choice as a miter plane. I'll have to try it.

1. 
   rog | Oct 09, 2004 06:31pm | #11

   Hi Rick:

   Thanks for the input. I think I will get that LV Low angle jack plane too. I was just down in the shop playing with my Stanley planes and I found they really can't hold a candle to the Veritas. I have the 4 1/2 Veritas regular smoother also. Am also looking at getting the medium size shoulder plane.

   Roger

1. 
   Possumpoint | Oct 09, 2004 09:58pm | #12

   I have the LV medium shoulder plane and the LV scrapper plane in addition to the the two I previously listed. None of my other planes hold a candle to the LV's with the notable exceptions of my two 4-1/2's Stanley and my #10 Miller Falls.

   I would recommend LV products to anyone whose is interested. I had a small problem with the fulcrum screw being too short on the jack plane when I received it. Rob Lee and his customer service people bent over backwards to correct the problem. Even with the incorrect screw the plane functioned beautifully out of the box.

   I am extremely lucky in that my wife understands my desire for tools and comes to me and asks what I want for Xmas, birthdays, etc,