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Question is what is the best glue for applying veneer, I tried using regular glue and it bled through the veneer, maybe I applied too much, the next time the veneer began to buckle after a few day.
The next thing I was going to try is contact cement, need some feedback from someone who has had success with this problem
Thank You
Frank G
Replies
Don't use contact cement on veneer. It won't last long enough. If you go with yellow or white glue, don't use to much because it will bleed trough porous wood. I've had great results with polyurethane glue. It does bleed trough, but if you put lacquer or polyurethane as a final coating, it won't show in the end. The key here is to put plenty of pressure and let it dry long enough before unclamping.
Hope it will help!
Marc
I have veneer applied with contact cement 40 years ago. It hasn't even thought about coming off. I repaired a piece I made for a friend who had water damage. It was heck to get the old stuff off.What Frank G should do is read up on veneering then choose the method that he would feel most comfortable pursuing. There is a learning curve with any method chosen. Hammer veneering is the classic method and offers repairability better than any other, of course. It doesn't fit my style very well plus there is the hardware to buy. I chose yellow glue & built my own veneer press.Cadiddlehopper
I agree with you! I read soooooo much "bad press" about contact cement, and it's unearned criticism. I'm aware of factories that produce "high end" goods with contact glue and there are no call backs or customer service complaints. If there was a problem they would not use contact cement. Their sales are to high to warrent overtime repairmen and/or recalls.
Also The veneer supplier Constatines, sells a contact product that has a proven track record. Just go to their web site and read. Then believe what you read. I first read their literature 15 years ago. I've tried ALL the "recommended" glues and even made , time consuming,veneer presses. The bottom line.......contact cement (RULES). Does it have limitations....yes.... it's only best used on surface to surface applications. I do edges with yellow glue.
But, I have to confess....hide glue is probably , truely, the "best" glue for veneering. It has to be, because, it's reversible. Buying into hide glue requires a rather long "but very fun" learning curve. Pressing or hammer it's fun. After I found out how much a glue pot costs, I bought a double boiler at a garage sale for cheap, then I got a cheap electric hot plate and a candy thermomter that reads 140 degrees accurately.....I later replaced this with an old,old,old, did I say OLD, crock pot. The crock pot and candy thernometer (RULES)
Now lets get this straight....Contact cement, applied correctly , and old beat-up crock pots (RULE)?????? Yep, that's my message, Get educated by both methods. If ya have to put "put food on the family table AND build a good rep...use contact cement.
Final note.....If you are using veneer for lamination, use plastic resin glue(powder/water mix). It's sometimes called urea-resin. I use a product called plastic resin from a mfg called Weldwood. Plastic resin, like hide glue pearls or grains has a shelf life that is very, very long. There are no expiration dates on the labels.......The reason this glue is excellent is..."springback" is less than any other glue. The dried squeese-out is very hard and brittle. Avoid using sharp tools with the dried product. I suggest wiping off excess before it hardens.
DonC
My 40-year old veneer came from Constantine's.Cadiddlehopper
Thanks for the comment. I'll be sure to check the Constantine contact cement. What did you use to apply it? brush, roller or spray gun?
I have a big cabinet to veneer on it's entire surface with Macassar Ebony an American Sycamore. I need to make it as fast as possible to keep the costs down.
I didn't mean to insult contact cement... I just didn't have good experience with veneer that has no paper backing. I know 3M's latex cement holds really good and applies very well, do you think it will be good enough for the piece I'll be working on?
Thanks,Marc
Contact glue will work with paper-backed veneer, but it never truly dries hard from what I've seen and read. There can be some creeping in the future. Raw veneer (no paper backing) should be applied with hide glue or, in the case of a vacumn bag, Unibond 800, or other similar glue, but never contact cement. I know some people use yellow or white glue, as I have before. But if you want to expand your skills, try hide glue, and hammer veneering. It's not as hard as it may look, and a little bit of practice can open new doors in your work.
Don't EVER use a water-based contact cement!!* Use the smelly, solvent-based stuff only. I did not use Constantine's, but it may be a better product than I did use. The largest thing I ever did was a table top ~42x~60. I used brushes. For a large surface, you may need to use a solvent to keep the glue liquid while spreading it over a large area. I don't exactly remember my technique because we are talking about the 1960s here. You probably should experiment with the technique a bit before doing THE BIG JOB. You seem to be in a hurry. Don't hurry. I don't believe that any veneering technique is fast.*I think that latex cement is water-based. I was unaware that water-based contact cement even existed when I bought my first can (circa 1965). I put it on my veneer which swelled rather evenly such that I didn't notice. A few days later the veneer split into hundreds of slivers due to evaporation of the water that I had unknowingly soaked it with. That is how I learned about it. The water in the glue goes into the wood as the glue becomes tacky. Don't use it!Cadiddlehopper
31 August 2006
It's been a while. Contact cement was put on the "don't use"t for veneer (formica?) but I find that it is easiest to work with and does not really bleed through the formica type veneer. As to life, I think that contact cement provides years of adhesion, unless I am mistaken. [email protected]
Frank GA
You should also consider hot hide glue. It has a number of properties that make it very good in the application. It can "suck" the veneer down onto the surface allowing veneering to be done without clamping. This process is called hammer veneering. If there is any bleed through it won't cause a problem with finishing. In fact, the traditional method of hammer veneering wets both sides of the veneer with glue, a procedure that keeps the veneer from curling. Much the same effect can be achieved by misting the outside surface of the veneer with water.
Frank G
If you can access the videos on the FWW site, William Duckworth has a good pair of videos that demonstrate veneer application using yellow glue. Worth a look. Tom
Look at http://www.joewoodworker.com. I am about to try veneering for the first time an am really impressed with his site. He has good tutorials on his "articles" page (I am going to try the Iron on Technique)
I'm also impressed with his stuff for sale. Most online places I looked at leave a lot of uncertainty as to what you might get. With him, you get a picture and a description of each lot as well as info about how much is avialable. Excellent customer service.
Cheers,
Jeremy
I like to use Urea Formeldehyde ( please forgive my spelling) But it has really good open time, that can be adjusted depending on what hardner you use, winter or summer. And it has absolutly no creep. White or Yellow PVA glues are pretty good to. But because of there moisture content they tend to buckle or warp the veneers on contact. And I have found that because of it's plastic nature the veneer will creep on you.
Kaleo Kala
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
I'm no expert but had the occasion to veneer some door panels based on all the reading, hide glue seemed the way to go but I didn't want to get in to the glue pot etc , so I used cold hide glue. I applied a layer of the glue to the substrate and let it dry. When I was ready to veneer I applied another thin coat to the substrate. It became very tacky like contact cement but without all the nasty fumes. I worked it like contact cement once it touched it didn't move much, and used the "hammer" technique to get a good bond.
I tried liquid hide glue for veneering once. That was when I learned about its short shelf life. Total & huge failure! It came off very easily. I turned it over and used it for some opposite sides that didn't show. But what a lot of wasted work! Even so, I may try your technique (on a small project) in the future.As for nasty fumes: That is one reason I haven't chosen hot hide glue. We used it in my high school shop. If it ever gets too dry, it takes weeks to get rid of the smell. Of course, contact cement isn't in the class with roses either. Another reason for avoiding the glue pot is that hammer veneering seems labor intensive. I put a panel in the press & forget about it for a day.Caddlehopper
Your experiences with hot hide glue are not typical and should not be used to discourage someone from using it.
Techniques of hot hide glue veneering are discussed in just about any veneering instruction book ever published. It is (of course) one of the oldest techniques for veneering.
Hide glue is one of the most satisfying substances to learn to use and has no peer in adheering veneer to any substrate.
Rich
I agree.Cadiddlehopper
I contacted the Weldwood people and they recommended that I use Weldwood II. I spread it thinly using a standard metal saw and iron on the vineer. works fine. Good luck.
For a flat surface, I don't think you can beat rolling out two layers of 10% thinned yellow glue on both surfaces (veneer and substrate), letting it dry and then using a household iron to melt them together. If you are seaming pieces, do the seam as a unit before you start ironing because the heat can cause minor shrinkage which can open up a non taped and glued seam. FWW had an article on this. I did it according to their advice and it has been flawless. The joint is bullet-proof (figure of speech only).
Doug
I just finished a job using glue from http://www.joewoodworker.com. Good stuff! Easy to work with!
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