Replies

1. 
   Senomozi | Aug 27, 2009 02:45pm | #1

   The "flat" finish you describe is typical of water-based finishes. In my experience water-based finishes look nice on stained wood or light coloured woods like maple and birch as long as you are not trying to make the grain pop like you would for tiger maple or flame birch.

   In this case I think going to water-based right away was not the best choice. One alternative would have been to start with "natural" oil stain (Minwax makes it) that pops the grain without imparting colour except for an ambering effect on light coloured woods. Then the water-based finish. Another alternative might have been shellac, maybe even orange shellac, then water-based finish if desired.

   As for the rough finish this is an application issue: dust in the air, overbrushing, brushing too fast, which causes bubble to form. However my bet is on raised grain. Water-based finishes raise grain significantly so you need to "cut" the raised wood fibers by sanding after the first coat. One method that reduces grain raising is to sponge the wood before applying the first coat. Sponging means to lightly wet the wood then sand to cut the raised wood fibers. I personally like to use a foam brush with water-based poly. They leave no brush marks and if you brush slowly bubbles won't form.

   Unfortunately I don't know how to fix this issue. Given the use of veneer, sanding down the water-based finish seems ill-advised.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Aug 27, 2009 03:48pm | #2

   Senemozi did a pretty good job of layng out your options. 

   You can get the surface smooth by a little rubbing out process to sand (say starting with 400 grit) off the raised grain, and then to sand with a really fine grit--1000 or 1200 and buff back to the desired sheen.  You may need an extra coat of waterborne to have enough finish to avoid cutting through to the bare wood. 

   But, you won't be able to get the "richness" of the oil based finish by adding some over the waterborne.  If you want the rich look of oil based (not all do) you would have needed to start with one coat of either BLO or a oil/varnish mix to get the color darkening and richness of oil.  Then after this has WELL cured you can top coat with waterborne. 

   Sanding down, as was mentioned, isn't a good idea in any  case for removing a finish especially with veneers.  She could remove the waterborne finish with paint stripper, being sure to do a thorough job and to neutralize residuals as recommended on the label.  A few coats of fresh waterborne finish won't be too challenging to get off. 

   By the way, the P&L finish will be more durable with respect to spilled drinks and household cleaners than the waterborne would be. 

1. 
   SheriDi | Aug 27, 2009 06:20pm | #3

   Thank you both for the good info.  Since these pieces are relatively small and I have an attic full of veneer, mabye she can learn from this and re-make the bottoms.  I am very stingy with my P&L as it is no longer available where I live, but you are right about the durability and this is a project that does need durabilty.

    

    

3. 
   paulbny | Aug 29, 2009 05:58am | #4

   I recently started using Minwax polycrilic on some cabinets I was building for a customer that wanted no oil based finishes.  The material was knotty pine to match T&G v-groove paneling in the room, yellowed up pretty good after 10 years.  After much trial and error I ended up using Zinsser Amber shellac cut 50% with Alcohol and wiped on. Let it dry, lightly sand and recoated with same.  Let dry overnight and then sprayed on 6 very thin coats of the Minwax polycrilic.  I had no luck brushing,  It's VERY easy to over brush this finish, you have to just put it on in one pass and walk away.  It dries VERY fast.  When I was spraying, I was doing it continuously, 4 cabinets, by the time I finished the fourth one the first one was ready for a recoat.

    

    

   Often in error but NEVER in doubt! 

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Aug 29, 2009 09:11pm | #5

   I hope you don't run into adhesion problems. Zinsser amber shellac contains it's natural wax and should not be used under an oil based poly or under waterborne finishes.If you want to use a shellac (I'm not sure what you are using it for), you need to use a dewaxed shellac. The only premixed dewaxed shellac is Zinsser SealCoat.Howie.........

   Edited 8/29/2009 2:13 pm ET by HowardAcheson

4. 
   davcefai | Aug 29, 2009 09:49pm | #6

   I have only recently started experimenting with waterborne finishes and found that it helps to think of them as purely a a transparent coat which does nothing else.

   What works is staining with a water-based stain, using shellac as a base coat or putting on 2 coats of a coloured water borne finish.

   For application only consider a foam brush and brush very slowly, no faster than 1 foot in 5 seconds. Be aware that it dries very fast but do allow the full curing time before recoating. Or at least wait till it is finger nail resistant.