vacuum press recomendations.is this good
gedaliahblum
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I am on a budget and am looking for a decent quality vacuum press. I work on my own and may use it a couple times a month, if that. I am not looking for the roll royce of vacuum presses. Just looking for a complete set, including bag, for around 700 dollars.
I found this…does anyone know anything about it? Do you have it?
http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=2299
all the best and thanks,
Gedaliah blum
Replies
Same subject, but another question. Has any one used an old refrigerator compressor for a vacuum pump? I realize that it would be very slow pumping down, but vacuum is vacuum. And they can be had for the right price, Free !
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 2/15/2007 5:29 pm ET by BruceS
Yes, I have two that are from old grocery store units. One has a 3/4 hp single phase motor, and the other is 3 ph, and bigger. Both were free, and no they are not slow.
These are regular piston pumps with oil in the crank-case. I don't know if you could use the standard enclosed type.You said," but vacuum is vacuum". As I keep saying a pump is a pump. You may be able to use your air compressor. They pull air in one side, and blow it out the other. The rest is just plumbing.
Nearly 40 years ago when I went to AC&R school we made an evacuation pump out of an old refrigerator compressor(enclosed type) and It worked fine. Just have to be carefull about oil level in the pot, and put valves on the inlet and outlet so oil doesn't come out when not in use. Your open type would probably be better, so who carses if the seals leak anymore, that was the only problem with the open compressor anyway. I say nothing wrong with being FRUGAL.
While in the USN. I had an old gray haired Chief tell me, Son we've done so much, with so little, for so long, we can do anything with nothing. I learned a lot from that Great man and we both had tears in our eyes when he retired.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
My system is one I built up myself. The vacuum is from a compressor that came out of a dehumidifier. Works great. I have have a vacuum pump which was used in airconditioning service work. The compressor looks about like one from a refrigerator.
Billy B.
Check out http://www.vacupress.com. I have a unit that operates off an air compressor and does a great job. I also got a poly bag instead of a vinyl one because it's more flexible and tear resistant than vinyl. If you go with a self contained unit with a vinyl bag, I think you can get one in your price range or close to it. They're very helpful if you have questions- and you will. They also sell products related to veneering. (veneer saws, glue, videos, etc.) DISCLAIMER- I don't work for them and get nothing for recommending them. Gotta do the CYA thing, ya know.
Even though you say you'll only use it a couple of times a month, you may be surprised once you get started and discover all the incredible veneers available. It can be addictive.
The learning curve on vacuum bagging isn't too bad, but you'll want to practice with cheap secondary veneers before using the good stuff.
Alan
http://www.alancarterstudio.com
Alan, very nice work...!Ron
Thank you. My fragile ego needs all the help it can get.
Alan
I use an old ( 50+ years ) medical vacuum pump. I made my own bag from clear vinyl material purchased from a fabric store, about 10 mils thick. I also use a programmable timer to turn the pump off and on, say 2 min. on and 6 - 7 min off. This took a little experimenting with the time and monitoring a suction gauge. I guess a better bag would hold the suction longer. Overall works pretty well with very little money invested.
Rob
thanks for the responses.
To be honest with you, I am not really following. I know how to work wood, I have no idea what I am doing when it comes to electonics and engineering up something from parts.
Can someone explain to me (and I am sure there are others here who also don't know anything) as like you would explain to a 4 year old. I am a visual learner. If you can post a picture and send me links to places where I can see what a refrigerator/dehumidifier compressor look like that would be very helpful. And also how you hook it up to the tubes. Then how do you make your own bag and put a valve on it?
You all make it sound so easy, I hope it will be for me someday.
Again, thanks again for the responses, its not your fault I dont understand.
gedaliahhttp://www.gedaliahblumfurniture.com
I have recently built and used the compressor driver version of the JWW vacuum press (V2 plus model I believe). I also ordered and used the cold press glue. In total I am thrilled with the experience. The press was very easy to make (I learned a couple of things if you are interested), and worked beautifully.
Joe was very good in responding to the e-mail questions I aske him, and when I discovered that I had accidentally ordered a second vacuum pump for $52 I just mailed it back and he credited me the amount on my credit card.
The only difficulty for me was getting the sched 40 / 80 pipe for the vacuum reserve. I finally got sched 40 pipe of 4" diameter from a neighbour, but the end caps were $20 each.
The press reaches 21" of vacuum in about 20 seconds with a 4' x 2' bag using my Coleman 27 gal compressor.
Al...I've been looking at the JWW kit's for a LONG time, considering it's purchase. I have upgraded my compressor about two weeks ago so I could get his kit and have enough capacity for a 4' X 8' bag. You said you learned some things if anyone was interested, I am very interested as I plan to order his kit in the next week or two...What'd ya learn?Thanks....Jeff
Hi Jeff, I foud the instructions on the JWW website to be abot the best I have ever used; vvirutally impossible to make a mistake.
I didn't know anything about vacuum presses when I started this so I tried to be very careful to follow the instructions from JWW. In particular I really worried about getting the 2 lengths of PVC pipe to be exactly te same length, going to the trouble to build a jig for my bandsaw and getting the lengths to within 1/32" of each other. When JWW said is was critical to get the lengths the same I thought it had something to do with the effectiveness of the press. It turned out that when I put the end caps on, the last one overshot the mark on the pipe and 'grabbed' before I could get the lengths exact. So now I was worried that the two reservoirs had different volumes. I asked Joe about this and he said that it made no difference at all whether the lengths were the same. If they are the same then things are a little tidier if you build the carrier that Joe describes (I did). In hind sight I worrried for nothing and if I was to do it again I would get the lenghts of pipe approx the same and then cut a piece of scrap to use as a spacer when I put the 2nd cap on each pipe. In fact, because I could only get 4" pipe I could have used only one section of pipe (it's easy to calculate but I think from memory that 16" of 4" pipe has the same vaume as 2 sections of 3" pipe 14" each). So lesson 1 was don't worry about the pipe lenghts.
Secondly, I purchased a coupld of vinyl bags (1x2 and 2x4) so I had to install the foam tape along the edge as instructed. The tape stretches and I ended up with it not being very thick and not holding the vacuum well. Lesson 2 was to slightly compress the tape (lengthwise) rather then slightly stretch it when applying it to the bag. Joe sends about twice as much tape as is reequired so I could redo it).
Thirdly, the vacuum set-up itself was quite air tight when I finished. I used teflon tape to wrap all threads as specified. With the ball joint to the bag shut my unit holds the vacuum for about 17 minutes before recharging. However, I was having trouble holding the vacuum when using the bag. For me the weak link was the hose from the press to the bag (which is just a friction fit). The other weak spot was the connector on the bag. I sealed both these spots with 'Goop adhesive and sealant' and now the press cycles about every 7-10 minutes when in use, and only turns on for about 10 seconds each time.I made the jigs that Joe outlines to hold the substrate and veneer while pressing. When I first tried it I just put a short piece of MDF in the jig (with no veneer) just to see if the bag was tight. The top board on the jig overhung the MDF dummy by several inches (note Joe's advice to put in additional spacers). The 3/4" laminate covered particle board top piece promptly cracked right where it overhung the MFD dummy. There is a tremendous amount of pressure being created.I purchased from VeneerSupplies (Joe) the cold press glue and roller also and can't tell you how well everything worked first time.Good luck/ Al
I built my own, it was easy and it works like a champ. The heart of the system was a gast pump I bought off Ebay for $150. It is the same kind most commercial systems use for four times the money. The bonus with my surplus purchase was a large reserve tank with a valve. Once the tank is under vacuum and you open the valve... SHUNK! For the bag, I used 20 mil vinyl from a fabric store. (it isn't really a bag, but a 4x8 frame that opens and you just lay the stuff in there and close it) I bought 1x1 aluminum tube for the frame, plus some non-porus weather strip for the seal. I couldn't find 30 mil clear poly, which is really the material of choice for a press as it will stretch and return unlike vinyl. For flat panels, viynl works great and is cheap. Good luck.
I have a system so I'm asking this for others, I hope you don't mind.
Is there a need to have a reserve tank? why?
Does bag size relate to tank size?
Could a retired propane tank be retro-fashioned to work?
Ron
Ron,You don't need a tank, but it really helps with the initial evacuation of the bag. Even the best vacuum pump is fairly slow at pulling out all the air, so the tank helps to get rid of the initial big draw of air and get things under pressure. On the Joe ww website, it looks like he builds tanks out of PVC. http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/v2-buildthereservoirs.htmI'm not sure about a propane tank, but it would probably require some creative valve work.
I am intrigued with the frame clamp you mentioned in your reply. Do you have a picture or pictures? Did you go by some published directions as to how to make? I want make one. You can e-mail me at [email protected] if you like. I would really like to know more about it and the construction of it.
Billy B.
Billy, not sure if you meant your question about the press frame to be for me. If you did, the jig to hold the substrate is at http://www.joewoodworker.com / Al
Al--My question was not directed to you. But, I am glad you replied with the Website. I already have a system which I built up about 4-5 years ago. It has auto off/on and maintains vacuum very well. I can leave it overnight, etc. without worry. And the vacuum pump does not run but about a fifth of the time.
I plan to read all I can from Joe Woodworker. I am sure will learn something from it. At first I made my own bags, but after developing some leaks, I purchased one at the Dallas/Ft. Worth Woodworking Show. It is one huge ziplock bag. Now want a smaller one, or one of the bag system which was mentioned on an earlier post.
Thanks, Billy B.
Billy,Unfortunately the thing is buried in my basement after a recent move. But you can see one here: https://www.qualityvak.com/bags.html. I just started with a melamine sheet, then built a frame around it and put another melamine board, cross cut to allow the air to evacate. Around that went the aluminum frame, and vinyl. The only problem is you can't stack stuff to high as the vinyls get stretched out of shape. The vacuum connector runs up through the bottom of the base board, so there is no problem with trying to keep a good seal around the vinyl. Works like a champ for flat panels.
Thank you for the information. Your description and explanation as to how you made it is sufficient. Think I can take it from here.
Your comments on the stretching of the vinyl/poly was something I had wondered about.
Your earlier post got me to thinking of building my own. Now I am more sure of doing it. Thank you again.
Billy B.
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