Living here in the Great Northwest, I have ready access to Red Alder lumber. I was looking at some today and wondering if it might be an OK choice for a small (27″W x 33″H x2″ deep, glass front) display case if the clients decide they don’t want to use oak.
I found the following description at Woodfinder.com:
“Lightweight for a hardwood, but has a fine texture with relatively good impact resistance. Heartwood pale roseate, sapwood lighter, with fine machining, staining and finishing characteristics. Figure is similar to birch to which it is related. Poor decay resistance.”
Under “Durability” however, they ranked it as very poor. Does this refer to the poor decay resistance?
Anyway, has anyone out there worked with Alder? I’m thinking it might be a good alternative to oak, because their main objection to oak is likely to be the rather prominent grain.
Besides, if I like it, there are about 12 big trees I wouldn’t mind losing off our property! (Just kidding, since I have nowhere to store the drying lumber!)
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 5/9/2002 1:23:18 AM ET by forest_girl
Edited 5/9/2002 1:26:04 AM ET by forest_girl
Replies
I just finished an arts&crafts style mini-china-cabinet, about 50" tall, glass front and sides, out of Alder. It reminds me of birch with straighter grain. Still tricky grain places though. I would reccommend strongly against any attempt to stain whatsoever, not even pigmented oil like Watco. The frequent changes in grain direction make little pockets that turn into blotches. I used good old linseed oil, it makes alder a nice golden brown.
I've heard alder called "poor man's cherry", but I haven't used cherry so don't know if that refers to similar staining qualitites--you're right about alder's blotchiness, though. If FG can get away with something like a natural Watco oil finish it might work out alright.
Would like to thank all of you for the great personal anecdotes regarding Alder. Didn't really expect to find that many real-life experiences out there! Am going to go back and respond individually, but in the meantime, another area of inquiry: would not some of the techniques used with birch, pine and cherry work with alder? For examples, using a wash coat, using a water-based dye and finish, etc. Of course, I'd like it best if they decide they like the natural color of the wood!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
What are you doin.. cheatin on me...ROFLOL.....Have your got a wood picked out yet ?
Steve - in Northern California
Edited 5/10/2002 12:57:19 AM ET by Steve Schefer
Hi Steve, thought you were nose-to-the-grindstone! :-) so I was cruisin'!
They haven't gotten back to me with a "color" (stain) choice. Making me kinda nervous. I have a feeling the wife doesn't like oak, which is what the samples I gave her were. I told the hubbie (they don't always come in together) that if they'd let me know what color was about right, and if the oak grain was OK or not, then I could work up some options.
I like the idea of Alder, but if they want a dark tone, I'll have to find out how to do that evenly (wash-coats or whatever).
Am really looking forward to this weekend -- it's supposed to be in the 60's on Saturday (Wow!) and my pardner's coming home from his work. He'll cover the store for a change of pace, and I can work in the shop or garden. Want to build a tall bin for the wood scraps I feed the woodstove with. Right now they're in 3 different boxes, buckets, etc., and just taking up waaayyyyy too much room.
Am going to make a bigger version of my little painted display item too (of Fuzzies fame), as I decided the one's I just made didn't hold enough to make them a very good buy for the customer. How much more wear would MDF put on my router and Forstner bits, should I use that instead of wood? Seems silly to use all this wood for something that's then painted so heavily, and they're small, so the weight doesn't matter that much.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Nose is now back in the air..... Just finished the "I need a miracle" project and handed it off the the installation team. Whew.... I didn't get to bed until 3:00am and got back up at 5:00am.... Too much coffee to sleep but I'll leave early today so it won't be too bad.
I don't have any Alder but I did find a piece of 5/4 Ash in the garage last night. I can't remember what I bought it for. I'll use it because if I remember correctly it has about the same staining properties as Alder. I think I will make it 3/4 with 1/4" box joints this time. It will give us a better idea as to the weight we are dealing with. I'll let you know.... If I don't get back on line soon, have a happy Mothers Day.Steve - in Northern California
Wow, and I had envisioned you slaving away all weekend with that nasty project. Good on ya!
I love ash. Have never finished any though. Would it not finish much like oak? Heavy stuff -- bought a church pew once that was solid (solid) ash. Weighed a ton!
I managed to acquire Grandmotherhood (at a young age I might add :-) without the trouble of actually having children myself, but I'll take your wishes to heart. I'm sure my 3-year-old (cat!) will give me an extra purr or two on Sunday, and maybe I can stretch the concept and get a Sunday-breakfast-out from my signifcant other LOL.
Have a good weekend!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have used alder pretty extensively on recent projects. It almost perfectly matches birch plywood and it is easy to saw and sand. The only thing about alder I don't like is that it will burn easy when you saw and route it. Another good thing is that it is considerably less expensive than oak, cherry and birch.
Steve
I like it. Oil finish and a wipe on poly give it a a nice depth. I like the color. I made a table a while back using alder on the top and placed some asamera (african, kinda dark walnut colored) strips in the center for accent. Great combination.
I find it easy to work with. Sharp knives in your planer will leave it glass smooth. If you watch your grain orientation carefully, you can avoid the usual bends and curves.
FWIW, here's a display table I made with red alder. The knobs I made with polymer clay, which is another thread in itself (great stuff).
Scott
Edited 5/9/2002 6:39:08 AM ET by the rev
Very nice cabinet, Scott. Good to see you back.
Beautiful case! I love the natural look of the Alder, and will show this pic to my clients and see if they perhaps like that color/tone. If they do, I'm cruisin'! Thanks Scott!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
f.g. I have used Alder on various projects. For the $ I'd say it's a good one. Oiled with pure tung oil, it produces a real nice golden color. I too have had blotching (is that a word?) problems with it and wouldn't recommend staining. The "durability" referred to is probably due to the relative softness and poor decay resistance. Knotty Alder, in large projects, has given me stability problems (specifically entry doors), but if you are planning on using "clear" Alder, and the item is smaller, it should be ok Machining can often make the "fuzzies" like the Hemlock you have written about, but that sands off easily. IMO, Alder is a nice inexpensive and rewarding material to work with and I really like the color when just oiled w/tung.(It yellows in exterior applications though). wb.
Forest Girl, the "poor durability" comment in Woodfinder refers to alder's lack of decay resistance. It would be a very poor choice for exterior projects and you should probably even avoid using it in moist interior applications (cabinets in a bathroom, etc.)...both because of its lack of decay resistance and its instability when exposed to changes in humidity. With that said however, it's a nice light duty cabinetwood for most other applications.
Alder is a fast growing "nurse" tree that quickly gets established on cut over land and as a result it tends to contain a lot of reaction wood (contributing to in-use distortion and causing blotches when stained.) Fortunately, its natural color is attractive enough not to need stain. If you want to change the color though, you can use a varnish stain to darken it a little. I like to doctor it up just a bit by using a coat of orange shellac to tone down its pink color to more of an amber hue.
Thanks Jon for the tip about using the shellac to moderate the color!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The use of Alder for smoking on the grill is better than the use of it for furniture. The weakness I have encountered is the wood doesnt wear well. I have made a dressor for my daughter out of it and the tendency to gouge or scratch is great. The wood itself has good color, stained nicely, and took a smoth finsh. But.... when a teenage child uses it, well it everytime something comes in contact with the surface it leaves a mark. My sugertion would be to use it in a low use enviroment or for hidden internal portions.
Mongo
This particular case will be hanging in a room that's dedicated only for sports memorabilia in a (currently) child-free home. The folks are very meticulous, so I'm not anticipating any bumps or bruises, intentionally or otherwise, with the case being hung on the wall.
Sorry your choice didn't work well with the dresser. :-[forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I work in small specialty shop and we have used alder quit a bit latly, as a matter of fact we are currently building some doors out of it. we are laminating three layers to get a 1 3/4 thick door. We have built some entertainment centers out of the stuff and stained to look like cherry and you cant tell the difference, yes it is not as hard as cherry but the cost is very low compared to cherry and is easy to work, never seen any problem with burning blades or anything that is out of the ordinary. I probably would not build akitchen table out of it because of the use but would recomend for stuff that is not going to take a beating.
Doug, if you don't mind my asking....what process (from bare wood up) did you use for the cherry look? Most responders here seem to have had problems with blotching when finishing alder with anything other than a natural finish. How did you prep the surface prior to staining? What products did you use? I'm really intrigued with Alder, as most of my work will be for displays, and not furniture, so exposure to bumps and bruises will be minimal.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest_girl
I dont do the finish work, I'll check on Monday but most of what we do gets an oil stain and lacer(sic) finish. I do know that the guy that does the finish does some tinting on some woods but I'm only guessing if he did on the alder. I do know that we have made several big projects with alder lately and I have not noticed any blotchy finish, some of the things we have done are in some very high end homes and I know that that would not fly there. I will get back to you on the finish proceedure Mon. I need to ask.
Thanks much Doug! I'll watch for your info. Have a good weekend!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forest_girl
I responded to your comments on alder last week, I talked to the man that does the finish work about the blotchy-ness that results from staining alder.
He said that it is a problem if you stain medium to dark, otherwise if its stained light he did'nt have any problem with blotchy finish. If you wanted to stain darker that you would have to prep the wood like you do birch or pine, with some sort of diluted sealer, shellac being the one that he prefers. I believe that some of the other responders to your posting said the same thing. It really isn't all that big of a deal though, unless you are going to have large areas of wood showing like table tops. Small narrow lengths of wood are not going to show up all that blotchy, plus some differentiation in wood is good, if you want it to be homogenous then dye or paint it.
The wood is cheap enough that you can do a little experimenting.
Anyhow good luck with the project, I don't think I gave you any real breakthrough information.
Doug
Thanks Doug. I guess I was thinking your shop had done some darker staining. I found a local source for alder (instead of having to ferry-boat it over to Rockler in Seattle), so will try a couple of different approaches.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Curious, would like to know how the stain was applied when alder was blotchy. Since getting a good quality HVLP gun I spray water soluble dyes and am thinking that blotching would be avoided if I sprayed even coat and allowed it to dry in place (i.e. without moving the wet dye around with a rag). Has anyone had blotching occur when spraying? Thanks.
Don, I think in general water-based stains are supposed to work better. Here's a link to Fuhr Stains at Homestead Finishing that you might want to check out. Go about 1/3-way down the page to see pics of Eastern White Pine with their stain. Some good info here. I don't have a sprayer, or I'd give it a try.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/Fuhrstains.htm forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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