Unisaw is up and running, finally! (got the junk cleared off of it yesterday, LOL) A couple of questions to Uni veterans.
- Every so often, but not at every start-up, it kinda “jumps” instead of purring into a running state. Not sure what would cause this….
- The Unifence is taking some getting used to. I lubed the cam at the end of the handle to make locking it easier. Is there anything else that needs to be greased, cleaned or both?
- Splitter: I had to put a washer between the splitter bracket (inside the cabinet) and the splitter to get the splitter to align with the blade. Anyone else run into that situation??
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
Set the fence a shade above the tabletop to glide smoothly. I use scraps of veneer or credit cards under the fence when I tighten the bolts. I can't imagine going back to a Biesemeyer fence.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Wow I thought I was the only one who realizes that the Uni Fence is superior to all others. especially if you have to make repetitive cutoffs by adjusting the fence backwards. Can't do it with any other fence.
Both my current and a previous Unisaw were "sudden" starters. You just get used to it.
The cleaner the better. Also, use a light touch in locking. You can create a great deal of slop in the locking cam by over-tightening.
Yes.
Enjoy the saw - and the fence. I like Chris' comment in the previous post about going back to a Biesmeyer after using the unifence.
Best!
-Jerry
Thanks, Jerry, for the caution re: overtightening. I was assuming the handle should be all the way down, maxing out the cam's tightening ability. I'm still hit-and-miss with the pushing-in action that it takes to fasten the fence, but getting better.
The blade guard is going to drive me nuts, too used to my Penn State overhead guard which is sitting in a corner right now. Have you used, or seen in use, the disappearing splitter that Delta makes? I'm pretty sure I want to go that way soon, if I can get the Penn State guard to work with the Uni (trying to avoid the "ceiling mount" option).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"I was assuming the handle should be all the way down, maxing out the cam's tightening ability. I'm still hit-and-miss with the pushing-in action that it takes to fasten the fence, but getting better."
I don't have one to look at, so I'm working from vague memory, but isn't there some kind of adjustment for the tightness of the cam? Like adjusting the screw that holds a plane's iron in place, you want it just tight enough, but not too tight.
-Steve
The "pushing in action" on the Unifence is only for when you have taken the fence off the machine and are re-attaching it. The locking handle lifts straight up and down to lock/unlock the fence and then it slides. The handle twists counterclockwise to unlatch from the rail, and clockwise to lre-attach to the rail.
The Unifence rides on the round glide on the front of the mount to the right of the fence itself. Two screws attach the mount to the fence and the fence can be adjusted to ride above the table. Not so far above to allow thin stock to go under it, but enough that it does not drag.
Hope this helps.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Thanks, Bruce, it seems I was misinformed or misunderstood when the previous owner showed me how to operate the fence. I thought you needed to push in/out and twist. Must admit, it seemed overly complicated! I'll get it adjusted to not scrape the table as it moves.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
PowerTwist link belts will take care of the jumping on startup. I would also check the arbor pulley set screw, mine would occasionally come loose. Vary the belt tension for less startup jumping.
You adjust the tension of the fence lock using the set screws on the front of the fence carriage. Be careful when adjusting these set screws as they will change the fence skew. I liked my fence with a slight skew away from the blade. The nylon set screws on the top of the fence carriage adjust the fence perpendicular to the saw top. I loved the Unifence as everything was adjustable and the adjustments were easy to do.
I put a piece of Formica under the fence guide bar before tightening it down. This gives a clearance under the fence so it does not drag on the table. Waxing the saw top and extension helps make it very easy to move the fence.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Edited 7/1/2008 5:42 pm ET by JerryPacMan
Thanks for the details, JerryP. I'll check the set screw, but probably live with the jump-start for awhile, link-belts down the road.
I'm not getting the laminate-under-the-fence thing. Given that you've locked the fence with the lam under it, and it's now sitting slightly above the table, won't it just drop down when you unlock it to move it? Obviously, I'm missing something here.
I waxed the top last night. What about waxing the fence rail? It's got prominent marks on it from the previous owner's use.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've been driving the same ol' Unisaw since 1980, so I guess that makes me a veteran...My saw starts instantly when I push "on." There is no wind-up. I never thought this to be unusual. I've got the Biesemeyer fence, so I can't comment on your Unifence other than to suggest you check it for straightness. A pal has one and had to have his replaced when he finally realized it was bent. The new one was better but wouldn't win any prizes. I have to lube the worm gear for elevating the trunnion about once a month. I use LPS-1 for this. WD-40 would also work. I don't do anything special... simply squirt it in through the front while rotating the elevating crank. The tilt mechanism needs maintenance far less frequently but that stands to reason... cutting on a tilted blade is not my idea of fun. My knob that locks the elevating crank is constantly loosing itself. It occasionally falls out and onto the floor. This is very odd to me but I live with it. The condition never happened for the first twelve years of its life, but it was set on a wood floor then. Since moving to a concrete slab, it happens. I ought to chuck it since I use it only once in a blue moon anyway. Wax everything that wood will come in contact with.
Yep, I cleaned and lubed the mechanisms inside, using a Teflon spray. I was surprised that the seller, who was a custom furniture maker, never tightened the height lock when working. I've always just assumed the locks are there to be used, but it sounds like if you have a quality saw, it'll just stay put once you set it?
This saw definitely starts right up, it's just that sometimes it's quiet and smooth, and sometimes it's "bonk, jump". I think the belt suggestions are probably right on target.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yeah, I've never known my set height to move while under use. Although I admit that I do lock it when doing a (gasp) dado cut with a (the Europeans all gasp again) stacked dado head. (oh horrors!)Your bonking startup sounds like my old Rockwell/Delta bandsaw. It has a definite clunk on startup and when it shuts down for that matter. I dunno why, and I've got bigger fish to fry. Soon, you will become so used to the Unisaw that It'll be just another machine. (.. and that's not a bad thing.)
The main reason I don't worry about that clunk too much is because it doesn't happen every time. Not sure if that's logical, but it's comforting, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I use the laminate as a spacer when attaching the fence to the carriage assembly. After you tighten the two large wing nuts the fence is adjusted with a small clearance between it and the saw top. The fence will not move up and down on the carriage unless you loosen the large wing nuts.
You do not have to press the locking lever all the way down, just a snug lock action works fine.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Thanks, Jerry, I'll make some adjustments. What about the scraping on the fence rail? Is this normal after years of use?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
No scraping on my 1986 Unisaw rail. Can you take a picture as something may be out of kilter. Also, what is the height lock you mentioned in another post?
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
You can adjust the fence up and down. Just loosen the setscrews and then adjust the fence to glide over the table at the height you want. This variable works great when you build a table that might not be perfectly flat, this way you can adjust the fence to ride over it.
Hi, Fotze. The fence manual is the one piece of paper the previous owner didn't keep, so these tips will help. I'll go over the fence thoroughly and get it working smoothly. Thanks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Here is a link for one model of unifence, the 36-905. I have the 36-906C so if that (906..I think the C is just the Canadian publication) is what you have I could scan it and send it on. Let me know.http://www.dewaltservicenet.com/documents/English/Instruction%20Manual/Delta/En%20422-27-655-0053.pdfCheersPeter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Peter, that would be great. The online PDF leaves a bit to be desired, eh? I'll email my mailing address to you. Thanks!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
>> Every so often, but not at every start-up, it kinda "jumps" instead of purring into a running state. Not sure what would cause this....
Very common. It's seems to be related to the four belt drive system. Many get rid of it by tightening the belts.
"Every so often, but not at every start-up, it kinda "jumps" instead of purring into a running state. Not sure what would cause this"....
***
Don't think of it as a "jump" or "bonk"... think of it as a "wake-up call"!
Have you considered Lee Styrone's excellent "Shark-guard" for the Uni?
Sarge..
who's looking forward to multiple "bonks" starting in about 30 minutes after spending yesterday replacing a CPU... :>)
Hi, Sarge. Yeah, if I can't get my PennState guard to work, the shark guard is on the short list.
Wake-up call: My trainer's sweetie cut the tip of his right index finger off a few days ago. I think the day before I fired up the Uni to actually do some work. That gave me pause, had me quadruple-checking everything instead of triple-checking!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"Wake-up call: My trainer's sweetie cut the tip of his right index finger off a few days ago."Sorry to hear this. What was his mistake?Greg••••••• Exo 35:30-35
Edited 7/3/2008 11:55 am by Cincinnati
Very basic mistake -- cutting fairly small stock, he was using his left hand (I mistakenly said "right" in earlier post) to hold the board against the fence, got too close and his finger went into the blade. It happened so fast, he didn't realize it had happened until it was over. He was using a push stick in his right hand, but no featherboard or other device to hold against the fence.
No need to diagnose for my sake, and I don't want to tear the process to bits since he's not a member and is a friend. I think we all know it wasn't the safe way to conduct the operation. I've forwarded SawStop contractor saw information to them. :0|forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Unfortunately, many woodworkers I know and most contractors I have worked with have done unsafe operations from time to time — including me. I asked about the accident as a reminder to me not take chances. I know two people who lost fingers in a saw. Both said it happened so fast they didn't realize they were cut until they looked down and saw flesh and blood.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
Hi, Greg. I must apologize....I didn't mind you asking. I guess I wanted to head off a multi-post discussion picking on the poor guy.
He had his surgery this morng to clean up the bone and stich everything closed. Yuccccckkkkkkk.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
>> Splitter: I had to put a washer between the splitter bracket (inside the cabinet) and the splitter to get the splitter to align with the blade. Anyone else run into that situation??<<
Hi F.G. The splitter bracket is held to the Yoke (or what ever you call the thing) with two Allen Head screws. By loosen these you be able to slide the splitter bracket into the correct position to your Blade and also position the angle of the splitter to the blade. So You will need no washer.
Hilmar
Edited 7/6/2008 9:09 pm ET by h12721
my Unisaw is a bumper on startup at least 2/3 of the time. You get used to it.
You don't need a lot of pressure on the unifence cam bolt, I'd advise running the bolt tension down to the level that the fence starts to move with lateral pressure than then ratchet it a turn. Remember that even when you are pushing against the fence you are typically applying a force that is attempting to twist the fence as opposed to pushing on it at a perpendicular angle.
FG
I have an old Rockwell which is possibly similar. The drive is delivered by 3 small v belts on small radius pulleys.
Is it possible your belts have deteriorated ? My belts may be original and the saw starts up very cleanly every time, and this saw was well used and abused by a house builder before I got it.
Or, is the blade always in the same position when it "jumps" ?
My blade makes a bit of noise when fully extended for maximum depth of cut. I have never investigated the source of the noise, rather I lower the blade slightly until the noise stops. Some rubbing somewhere. It the rubbing were there for startupm you might experience a pulse.
I thought of replacing the belts, but decide to wait until they fail. I didn't look like to friendly a job.
I pitched the fence for an Accu square and pitched the Accu Square for the RedLine. Same basic design, just like the RedLine fence accessories.
Someone suggested putting WD-40 on the top. I wouldn't as anything with solvents will float carbon out of the casting. Stay with dry lubes or paraffin. Even some of the paste waxes have enough solvent to keep every buffing cloth you own completely black. Everyone will have a different experience as there are many ways to cast a saw table top.
Splitters. I like the little plastic one that Lee Valey sell. Make it very easy to use or not use, and to move between inserts.
Don
Hi, Don, thanks for the note. From what others have written, seems like many of the Unisaws jump periodically when started. I'm leaning toward just ignoring it for the time being, LOL. Like you, I'm not enamored of the idea of changing out those belts right now.
I waxed the table top with Johnson's Paste Wax last week and it has helped significantly with stock movement as I'm ripping. I've tried one or two other waxes, and really didn't like the solvent level in them. The top isn't pretty, but it works, so I'm not going to worry about a few stains and light scratches here and there. I'm with ya on the WD40, though not with a scientific reason, I just have gathered the idea over several years that it's not necessarily a sweet, benign fluid that's OK to treat anything and everything with.
Was the fence you pitched the Unifence, or the round-rail fence that came with some of the Uni's.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/6/2008 1:54 am by forestgirl
FG,
For lubing the top, I have used Boeshield as a sealer protector then either a teflon based spray or LPS-1 is pretty good. I tried a "top wax" sold at a trade show, but it brought up the carbon on my old top. My top is pretty scarred and stained, But it is smooth and level for the most part.Fence. The fence that came with the saw was an old round bar unit. It had cogs on the underside of the front rail. It was missing several of the cast iron washers that allowed the round bar to mount to the flat edge. The only thing I don't like is my saw has a 1.5 HP motor. It has the special mounting bracket which makes upping the HP a significant cost. I saw a 3 HP motor for over $500.00. I keep the blade clean and don't have any real problems. I use a Ridge blade which seems to cut through most of the wood I use fairly well. No problems with 8/4 lyptus. I just picked up some 8/4 jatoba so my story my change. Don
Hmmmmm, the LPS-1 looks like an excellent choice for gear lubrication too. I never thought about using the Teflon on the top. I think I have some Boeshield around, seem to remember not having great success with application, can't remember the details though.
Yeah, the replacement motor thing is a drag. When I needed a new motor for the old Jet saw I was given, I lucked out. The Jet warehouse people suggested I call the Scratch-'n-dent people down the road (they carried Jet, Powermatic), and the very nice guy who answered the phone made me a deal on the $300 Jet motor -- he ordered it from the warehouse and sold it to me for $175. Just a ferry ride and fairly short drive away to pick it up!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
See http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=32508.13
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Jerry,
I have tried the JetLube spray moly on a few items and am not convinced that it or any of the dry thread lubricants are a solid solution on the adjusting screws in our machines.1. Tablesaw
I have sprayed it on the height and tilt screws on my saw. It works great for a while and then the stiffness returns over time. I have been concened that the solvents in the moly spray might might react with the oil in the bronze nut in the mechanism in some way.2. I used it on the tensioning rod on my bandsaw. Again, it worked great for ahile then the action deteriorated. I would add a bit more and the smoothness returned. Eventually the threads on the rod got so badly galled I had to replace the rod and nut. It was a grand opportunity to replace the knob with a nice hand wheel.The tablesaw is old old, so any stiffness could be for any reason. The bandsaw was factory new. Moly is suppose to reduce friction and contribute some hardening to the steel. We add to this, heavy concentrations of unknown compounds - wood dust. The chemistry of the wood dust now mixes in with the chemistry of the lubricant. The result could be anywhere on the scale. We hope for good mechanical movement and no metal deterioration. Only time will tell.How often do you have to re apply the moly to your saw?Don
See message 42403.43
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Hi, Jerry. The graphite sounds messy. Does it really offer an advantage over dry lubes without graphite?
Tried to find that issue/article online, but no luck. Will have to see if I can dig out of the mess called my office -- Most magazines are in files, but I think I pulled #179 awhile back and never refiled it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The Dri Slide is very messy but I feel it works better than the LPS 842 that only contains molybdenum disulfide. They both dry and seem to repel sawdust. The LPS Force 842 dries instantly and leaves a thin dark gray coating. The Dri Slide dries much slower and leaves a thicker coating. They both are high pressure rated to 100,00 PSI. The truninion's, worm gears and racks require a heavy duty high pressure lubricant according to the FWW article.
Keep in mind that I am a lubrication fanatic. I think I got the trait from one of my uncle's as he was always lubricating something. I just added some more Jet clamps to my collection. The first thing I did was clean and lube the tightening screws.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Don, I've been looking for a 1.5hp Unisaw motor. I have a few 3hp single phase motors and would be willing to trade for the short frame Unisaw motor. If interested, contact me.
DJK
Hilmar is correct that no washer should go between the splitter anchor bracket and the splitter. A washer should go outside between the splitter and attaching nut or lever in my case. He is spot on about the two Allen head bolts that hold it to the saw frame. That is how you adjust the position of the splitter.
Regards...
Sarge..
Opps...
For the "clunk" try this, from http://www.sawcenter.com/. FAQ
A great source for unisawyers.
Q. My saw makes a "clunk" when it starts. What could cause this?
A. On the elevating shaft, inside the saw toward the back, there is a round stop collar with a locking set screw. First crank the blade down, and then up just a few turns, enough to tension the elevating shaft. Now check to make sure that the stop collar is seated all the way back against the rear trunnion assembly. If it is not, loosen the set screw and tap the collar toward the back of the saw, and then re-tighten. If this collar is allowed to move forward, the whole elevating shaft will move back and forth, allowing the blade arbor to jump when the saw starts. This causes the "clunk" on start up. Another source of this noise could be a loose arbor pulley. There are two set screws in the grooves of the arbor pulley. They can be accessed from underneath the saw if you rotate the arbor until they are uncovered by the drive belts. Make sure you unplug the machine before attempting this!
Glenn, thanks! I'll check both of those possibilities out. I don't like the idea of anything being loose that shouldn't be. Will report back.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks Glenn. I had seen that info somewhere and lost it before I pursued to see if it worked. I was hoping to run back across it somewhere and you da man. I will do mine in the next day or so betweem task as I have re-sawn drawer fronts acclimating.
As a matter of fact... no time like the present. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Being as I had a clunk, or bang or some such when starting my Unisaw for the first few months I used It I can relate. It is not a sound you want to here. I also looked into why it happend and here is my best guess (not this is a guess) I had to buy the saw due to insurance reasons almost a full year before it was ever used. So I think the belts to a lot of set. I ended up taking one belt and spining it around a bit so that the set of the belts was now out of synk (sp?) with each other. I looked at the link belts but the cost of replacement was more then I wanted to spend (to many belts on my Unisaw) This seamed to fix the issue. Also I noticed that the more I used it the smoother it ran and the less it banged (even before spining one of them). So I do think the belts had taken a bit of a set.
Hope this helps.
Doug
Well.. well.. well.. ya think belts, huh?...:>)
I went down yesterday morning based on what I read here to adjust the collar on the height adjuster. It was flush with the mount.. but I loosened it and made darn sure. Then I checked the set screws to be sure the pulleys on the arbor was not loose. They were tight as a drum.
Now.. I would only occasionally get the thump on start-up but just wanted to check those issues as I could see them as possible but a thump every once in awhile would not be consistent with the symptoms of those thing occurring. So.... ?
While inside I brushed the gears and lube.. then checked the belt. Whoa... the belt was much looser than I would allow on a vehicle and I have been around a few vehicles. So I un-loosened the bolt and tighten them to a point I could push them in about a 1/4" with my finger when tensioned. Before they could be pushed in about 3/4"..
What did that achieve.. well for starters you can tell the difference in power with 10/4 stock as I ran some through for some chest knobs I am making. No slip relates to more rpm and torque. This is good but....
I now thumps with every start-up as a Uni-saw throws a lot of torque early. I will give the belts a few days to heat up and expand slightly and re-seat. Then a re-check to see if they need to be slightly tightened again. If the problem persist... I may change belts but we will see as I think they will condition as they did when I first acquired the factory re-build.
I am convinced time will tell and also convinced belts play a large role as you have discovered.
Regards...
Sarge..
Thanks for giving us such a thorough report, Sarge. If the thump persists and you decide on new belts, do you think you'll get the link belts, or stick with plain ol' radiator fan belts??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Probably standard belts as I really don't think the thumb is doing anything destructive. When I turn the saw on the cyclone and a 6 HP shop vac underneath that feeds the over-head dust chute is already running. With a 30% hearing loss from Vietnam.. I doubt I will panic with a thump as I see no evidence of nothing more than torque which has not shown "any" wear on trunnions or related parts.
BTW.. I have never used the link belts on anything as of yet.. but they obviously can help with vibration. But.. so far I just keep the moving parts in good working order and have not experience any vibration with any machine I have or have had. So...
BTW.. while I have you and to save another post on the SCMS thread.. here's a couple of shots of the base set-up. One is with extensions retracted and moved to the wall. 4' wide in the "rest" position. I roll it out about 3' to extend to do up to 16' stock. The extensions were taken off a "close-out" Wolfcraft portable I got at HD several years ago for $49.
The extensions are some of the best I have seen quality wise. The legs were useless to me. I took it off and mounted on top of my home-made mobile base, then covered the top of the extension so there is a smooth surface instead of the metal showing. Some days I will just roll the whole thing outside the front door in the cut area after a quick dis-connect of the DC ducting. Put a fan to my back facing the saw and "let er rip". :>)
Good luck with whatever you decide...
Sarge..
Wow, that's pretty slick! My initial plans are to have storage in the stand, as storage has become a serious issue lately. I want all my tool stands to have cabinet space, drawers, or both. Thanks for taking the time to get the pics up, Sarge, I appreciate it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl, a very good discussion is going on at SMC about getting the Unifence adjusted properly. Follow the link below if you are interested.
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=87876&page=2
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Thanks, Jerry, I'll check it out!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It's a machine that is going to create dead space beneath so.... might as well use it for storage as that always becomes an issue in probably 90% of home shops as you accumulate. I have a dedicated two car garage and a half basement behind that I have access to 2/3 of. I keep the jointer.. spindle sander.. belt disc sander and scroll saw back there with a wood rack as all are mobile and can be rolled up to the cut area in 30 seconds.
So... I have quite a bit of room but do I wish all were 10' wider and 12' deeper? You bet I do but I don't so... you take the cards you are dealt and play them as best they can be played. Reality trumps wishing! :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
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