Replies

1. 
   Napie | Jan 01, 2008 06:53pm | #1

   Forget the Tormek and the jigs.  Get a cheap high speed grinder and learn to do it by eye!!. 

    

   Here is a paradox I just do not understand, people will spend hours with angle measurements, jigs  and whatnot to sharpen turning tools that are used in the most freehand manner possible.  If you can cut a cove and a bead or hollow a bowl, then you have every motor skill necessary to freehand grind a fingernail gouge or a curved skew, you really do, it is not that hard.  I also cut at the lathe right from the 60 grit wheel, turning tools don’t need the fine honing a plane iron requires, (and I question the amount of that most people do….).  It will be dull pretty fast, just grind it and get to turning, that’ll save you the most time.  

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jan 01, 2008 07:21pm | #2

   Napie,

   I understand what you are saying, as I have reached somewhat that point when honing a plane cutter or chisel.  When I am restoring a plane or chisel, I use a 60 or 100 white wheel to restore the bevel close to 25 degrees and close to square.  Then, with the Tormek, I can finish it off to as exact as one can get to 25 degrees and square relatively quickly.  Then, scarey sharp from then on and honing by hand. 

   However, I am still learning on the lathe.  Barely started actually.  I have turned some right nice gavels, but I still have a long way to go. 

   If I know I can get any particular type of gouge back, reliably, to the way it started then I will feel more free to to freehand the sharpening in between.  I don't get much time in my shop so I like things to be ready to go when I am in there.  I just don't have the experience yet on the lathe and sharpening the tools. 

   Thanks for your admonition.  I will hang on to it.

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   Napie | Jan 02, 2008 12:26am | #3

   Don’t worry about getting it back to its “original” configuration.  None of my turning tools look anything like they started out.  That’s what is so great about woodturning, there are no rules. All those fingernail grind gouges you see in catalogs are there because someone started re-grinding their standard bowl gouges and the tool makers picked up on it.  Remember, in all turning cutting angles, bevels etc. are relative.  It is not like a plane where the body of the tool sets the angle.  With a turning skew or gouge, you bring the tool to the spinning wood and pivot until the bevel rubs and starts cutting.  If you are short on time there is no better reason to learn freehand grinding and forget the jigs, they only waste time and since you have to sharpen so often, (I may grind every 3-5 min. while turning), learning to do it the fast way has a lot of benefits.   

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   I’m a real Ludite when it comes to sharpening, just a cheap 6” high speed grinder with a 60 grit wheel and a hard white <!----><!----><!---->Arkansas<!----><!----> oil stone and you can shave with my chisels and plane irons. I’m all about fast, I’d rather work wood than screw with jigs and greasy sandpaper.

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jan 02, 2008 04:18am | #4

   Napie,

   Thanks again for your instruction and wisdom.

   Regarding the "greasy" sandpaper -- that's where I do it my way, with water.  No oil or anything greasy.  Water works just great.  3M finishing film 40micron, 30, 15, 9, 5, 1.  And/or wet/dry automotive sandpaper.  Water does a great job holding it the glass and keeping the slurry from clogging up the paper.

   Alan - planesaw

2. 
   TomHigby | Jan 03, 2008 04:22am | #5

   I suspect it would be possible to turn with a garden shovel,  but if you want a smoothly planed surface from your skew, then  start with a keen edge!

   Tom

1. 
   Napie | Jan 03, 2008 04:35am | #6

   When and where did I say the tool did not have to be sharp?  Where?  In fact I recommend frequent grinding in order to keep them sharp.  Many novice turners will forgo the required sharpening because they do not want to take the time to perform the unnecessary honing they think will make for a better cut.

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   I have twenty years on the lathe and at least 5000 plus bowls to my credit, not to mention a lot of center work, boxes, duck calls, pepper mills etc.  In all that time I have never honed a tool, everything has been turned straight from the grinder and no, I do not bludgeon item into shape with 80 grit.  The edge straight from the wheel is fine for all manner of turning.

1. 
   TomHigby | Jan 04, 2008 11:12pm | #7

   If you are speaking of a tool fresh from a Tormek wheel, then I'll accept your statement.  If we must bring up seniority I will say that my piece in "Design Book Two" from FWW in 1979 was not my starting point.

   Tom

1. 
   Napie | Jan 05, 2008 03:34am | #10

   Nope, just straight from the 60 grit on the high speed grinder.  Glad you got published all those years ago, good for you.  I’ll stand by the work I have produced over the years, that’ll do for me.

2. 
   wilburpan | Jan 05, 2008 12:48am | #8

   I happen to have the Turning Tool Setter, which is a very useful thing to have for turning tools. It comes with a set of recommended settings. I don't know if they match Sorby's exactly, but they are very useable settings.

   Bowl gouge: a=45, JS=2, p=65mm, OR a=55, JS=4, p=65mm (I use the second setting)
   Spindle gouge: a=30, JS=2, p=55mm

   However, it's not hard to set up the jig to duplicate the grind you have. Start with one of the above settings. Measuring the angle of the gouge is pretty straight forward -- all you have to do is use the AngleMaster that should have come with your Tormek, and set the position of the jig rest accordingly. Then color the bevel of the tool with a Sharpie pen. Set up the jig on the tool bar, and rub the wheel over the bevel. If you remove the Sharpie mark across the entire bevel, you have the right protrusion. Otherwise, jiggle the protrusion back and forth to get the right setting. Finally, set the JS and do the Sharpie test for the side sweeps. Lower JS numbers mean less of a fingernail shape, larger JS numbers mean more of a swept back shape.

   But you don't have to exactly duplicate Sorby's grinds. Keep in mind that the range of useful grinds for gouges is pretty wide.

   As far as Tormek vs. a grinder, excellent results can be obtained with either method. However, the Tormek has the huge advantage of not spewing grinder and metal dust all over your shop. And if you already have a Tormek, you might as well use it.

   Edited 1/4/2008 4:50 pm ET by wilburpan

   
   

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   Edited 1/4/2008 4:50 pm ET by wilburpan

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jan 05, 2008 03:23am | #9

   Wilburpan,

   Thanks.  Appreciate the numbers.  I'll give 'em a try.  I understand the sharpie or magic marker technique.  That has helped a few times in what I have done.

   I understand Napie's wisdom and experience.  I am just not at that point yet.  In the past I would have argued with a fence post on how one should buy the best chisels, etc.  With a fair amount of experience now, I know that it is almost irrelevant for most of us.  An inexpensive, used chisel (when sharpened and honed properly) will work wonders for most woodworkers. 

   Well, home from the office and heading into the shop.

   Thanks,

   Alan - planesaw