Hello im a new woodworker wanting to purchase a tablesaw and router along with other main tools. For the saw i can go from 700-1100 or so. Please tell me your success and failure with particular brands/accessories. Im thinking about the Delta hybrid saws and a porter cable router but have heard many complaints. Remember these are going to be new tools so a great Delta saw from ’88 wont help to much. I also want to purchase a miter saw, suggestions please. I dont want a portable saw like makita but something moveable like a hybrid, possibly a contractors saw. Also, router suggestions.
THANKS FOR THE WISDOM ITS GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!
Replies
I'll start and everybody will want to know. What are you planning to build now and in the future?
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Now Ill be building mainly workshop items such as cabinets and jigs. Also I've been planning to build a coffee table and nightstands, also a midsized bookshelf. For the future Ill be scaling up my projects and difficulty.
Personally I have the DeWalt Hybred 1 3/4 Hp and it suits my needs well. Their cost has zoomed close to full sized cabinet saws. Given that, I would go for the Jet Pro-Shop hybred. Many nice features for for the money. Arbor lock for one wrench blade changes, enclosed cabinet and good dust collection, 110/220 capable. 45/90 tilt stops are adjustable from the top. Smaller footprint for mobility and storage. Hand router= DeWalt 621 plunge or Triton 2 1/4 hp. PC 7518 in jessUm MastRlift for a router table.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Don't bother with the hybrids, if you are spending that much then get a cabinet saw for another couple of hundred.Grizzly,Jet and many others. Check Steel City out,I have never even seen there tools but from the posts I've read they make fine tools.
Buy a router that is comfortable in your hands, most brands are fine. Porter cable is my own choice for routers.Makita makes very good miter and slidesaws.
Buy what you need for now, no need to buy every thing at once.
mike
Thank you Mike i am however on the low end of the budget should have put ideal price around 850-900.
Buy what you need for now, no need to buy every thing at once.
I'll ay DITTO!
Delta and Porter Cable got bought by Black and Decker, and we have been hearing complaints about quality of newer tools coming from them. Caveat Emptor.
Scotty
I have a Grizzly hybrid and am very happy with the saw.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Hybrid-Cabinet-Saw/G0478
On the router issue, there many choices. I am partial to Bosch.
good luck.
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless DEAD.
If you can have 220v (I'm assuming your in the states. you might want to fill in your profile info it might help), get a cabinet saw. You could get used, but if you don't know what your looking at you could get burned. I have the Grizzly 1023 for a long time now and its been a great saw. Its never gave me a moments trouble and I'd buy it again in a moment. I also have the 17" bandsaw and horizontal boring machine and the 12" jointer. I'm very pleased with all. I also have several portercable routers. I have the 7518 big boy in my router table. Its a workhorse and you would not be dissapointed. I also have the 890 series combo router with fixed and plunge bases and the old stand by 690. All are fine routers, but if I were in the market today, I would still get the 7518 for the table, but I would proably go with the festool for the router. Their stuff is excellent. Good luck, if you are like me it will take some time to build a shop of tools. If I had the money to get only one right now, I would start with the cabinet saw and build around it. Take care.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Frequently Asked Questons Two,
OK, how do I say this nicely? Sorry I just can't...Don't buy a Delta Hybrid, you can find other posts about that from me. No need to repeat them, but poor quality, hard to adjust, low power. POOR machine. You get what you pay for.
My advice is to get a solid Cabinet saw, spend the bucks and do it right. There is different quality levels overseas just as we have here. I own two Griz pieces, 8" jointer, and 15" planer that are rock solid and perform flawlessly. I wish I had spent the bucks for a TS from them. BONES i envy you! You can build a nice cross cut sled for your TS on Circle K change money instead of buying a Makita Miter saw. Use that extra money to buy the best tool you can afford.
Porter Cable routers work just fine, I use mine in router lift on a table. No complaints. I have Bosch with a dual base for hand use, works great, comfortable and easy to reach the switch! I also have an an old Makita also which will set up with a second bit for mulitple passes. I bought mine when they were on sale.
I would recomend buying some books to read. Workshop Projects by Wood Workers Journal, Setting up shop by Tauton are two good ones. My shop is almost done, and is fully mobile on carts and casters. I have a mobil stand for my Makita LS1214 miter saw, with fold up arms for support and storage underneath. Works great for multiple cuts, but I really like my cross cut sled for small parts etc
If you insist on buying a Delta hybrid, and you live in Phoenix, let me know. I will make you a heqq of a deal on one. Stay in touch, post some info on yourself!
AZMO
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Morgan,
So you like your Bosch kit, eh? I'll trade you mine for your Delta Hybrid!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
"Griz pieces, 8" jointer, and 15" planer that are rock solid and perform flawlessly"
Which model planer do you have and how long. My Makita 2012 that I've had since 92-94 (I forget), is getting to the point of time to move up. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Bones,
I have the 15" GO453Z with their inhouse brand of spiral cutter. Only owned it for 3 months. Came of the truck set up perfect and runs pefect. 2 speeds, the slow speed is very smooth. 4" of snipe on both ends, if I lift the outfeed side of the board as it comes out I can eliminate that snipe. Not a problem for me. I have used it on Cherry, Maple, Bubinga, Mesquite, Fir Pine and Birch. Some tear out on heavy figured wood, but not as much as I would expect. Comes with its own caster set, easy to move around. Dust Collector gets most of it. Handle that came with it had a bad noise from the vibration, they sent me a new one, and asked me about the tool, was I satisfied, anything they can do let us know.... I can't see that any other machine out there would be any better.
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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I would like to thank you all. Ive heard that Jet and Powermatic saws cut rough meaning id have to buy a jointer soon. I have had an eye on the WOODTEK 148-271 featured in last tools and shops issue. Its 760 dollars and more rip capacity and higher rating then the 980 dollar STEEL CITY.
Jet and Powermatic saws DO NOT cut rough. Using the correct blade fixes that problem.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Like others, I'd recommend getting a cabinet saw. If you can't afford one, stick with a contractor's saw. There isn't too much benefit in hybrids to be worth the additonal cost, in my view.
For a router, I like my Milwaukee 2-1/4 HP Body grip router. The fine and coarse adjustments are easy and precise and removing the motor to change bits is easy. For a router table, I don't think you can beat the Tritons. I'd stay away from the Bosch kit. The motor is next to impossible to remove from the bases or adjust up and down. It worked well at first, but now it's a nightmare.
For a miter saw, I'd recommend Makita's LS1212 12" compound miter saw (single bevel). I've had mine for a couple years and no complaints. I believe that non-sliding miter saws are a little more accurate than sliders. Anything I'm working on that's wider than 8" (the capacity of a 12" saw) is usually wider than 12" as well (the capacity of a slider) so I end up cutting it with a circular saw. A crosscut sled works well too.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I have to agree with the others, i have been a caprnter for 15 years, and finally last year took the leap to a cabinet saw. I got the steel city 3hp model with the 30" fence for 1,100 after rebate, and the first day I got it I had some 8' book shelves to build.(should have got the 50" fence) Typical, but the saw has opened my mind up to endless possibilities and accuracy I knew existed but thought unreachable. Like the post up from here, save your money on the mitre saw and put it into your table saw. Get one later if you want it, you probably wont want it though. I use my ten inch makita (great saw) mainly for trimming out houses. The TS does all the cross-cutting more accurately than it ever has. Or i have been able to produce from it. Trust me, for accuracy a well set-up TS is probably impossible to beat for consistency. I should have got this saw 15 years ago, is what I say everytime I use it. Hopefully that will wear off in another year or two.
John
Edited 5/29/2008 2:14 am ET by potomac
There have been a couple suggestions of abandoning a miter saw in favour of a cross cut sled for the table saw. And there's good reason behind that. They excel at cutting parts up to a couple feet long (and really small parts) but cutting a 8' board can be awkward as hell, especially in a small shop!
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
FAQ2,
People will cringe when I say this, but since you have a pretty decent budget but seem to be itching to get started I would recommend the Craftsman 10" hybrid saw. You would need to outfit it with rollers to move it around, but it has plenty of power, a wonderful Bieysmeyer (sp?) fence and an excellent rip blade that comes with it. The other appealing factor to it is the fact that if you catch the right deals you can get it around 899. Assume you don't have bad credit you can even get a Sears card and get it 0% for 12 months which is less than 90 bucks a month.
People may also cringe at this, but I have a Craftsman miter saw too. It cuts 45 degree miters perfect and I haven't reached a level where it hasn't gone and I sometimes wonder what the difference between my 150 dollar machine is and one that is 500. If you really want to get creative with your budget and don't want to go the Craftsman route, buy the 1100 Steel City Hybrid and then build you a cutoff sled and you can then justify spending towards the top of your budget.
As for the router I would go for high amps, variable speed, soft start, 1/2 collet and at least 2HP in case you ever want to use big bits in a table. I personally own a Hitachi router and then one that was bought for 9 dollars off E-bay with no name. The Hitachi stays in the table because it is so heavy and that lil no name gets good use for simple edge routing freehand. I will caution you, the expense isn't going to be the router, your expense will come with the router bits. Please don't do like I did and purchase one of those cheap box sets with like 99 bits, 92 of them you NEVER use and the 7 that you do use are dull after a year or two.
Good luck man, and take your time. Remember you can always justify buying good tools because they will last a long time so the extra price is worth it.
I thank you for the advice i really like the Porter Cable 890 combo and I just really like the WOODTEK 148-271. As for the miter saw i saw a crasftsmen 10'' slider on sale for around 240$ so that might be my choice.
Honestly man, not saying CRAFTSMAN is the greatest, but I can't see what my saw can't do that the others can. I'm serious about if you have the resources to allocate look at getting a 0% interest card for 12 months at Woodcraft, Rockler or Sears (Be careful here, if you don't pay it off in time they tack on the old charges). Get you the NICE stuff, and pay for it over a 12 month period interest free. You are looking to put in 3 compnents, TS, router and miter saw. All those should total less than 2k. 2k over 12 months is 167 a month. See where I'm going :)
Bio,
Don't know about the TS of which you speak but I agree with you about the mitre saw. I bought mine back in the 80s, it is a compound mitre saw and it cuts with great accuracy and is consistent from either swing of the blade/motor.
I can cut left and right mitres that actually mate to form a 90° angle!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Yo FAQ2,
You will get some great advice from the fine folks here at Knots. I will give you a website to check out if a budget is what you must follow.
http://www.craiglist.com It's an online classified ads site. Click on, go to your state [(s)if you live close to the border of another state] and check the areas listed.
Last year I bought a 7yr. old Delta 2000 series (USA made) 10" contractors saw in like new condition for $200. I had to drive 2 1/2hrs. to get it, but it was well worth the trip.
My only other advice is take what you learn here and research the different tool companies to compare. A lot of these companies have PDF manuals to help you understand the machine. Any furthur questions will be gladly answered by us Knotheads, provided you don't mind your thread gettin sidetracked here and there but that's half the fun of this thing.
By the way, you're now a Knothead too, welcome to the club and the wonderful world of woodworking.
Hope this helps,
Chris.
One thing I would never do is, run out and buy up every tool
known to man.
Over the years you'll develop your methods and preferences. You
have no way of judging what you want or need right now.
That said- Table saw
It's the heart of your shop. Take your time and get the very best you can afford.
Router- It's perfectly fine to start with a more modest machine. You'll
be able to make beautiful creations on most any of them, and you'll probably be buying more in the future.
Miter saw- Don't go cheap, but any mid-to upper range saw will serve you fine.
The machines are just that and don't make good craftsmanship. Keep
it simple and focus on the wood (and safety).
Table saws are indispensable, especially for cabinetry. Bandsaws are indispensable for furniture making - resawing, curves, etc. I'd rather live with a bandsaw and circular saw than only a table saw.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Each to his own!
I'm not saying you don't want a band saw, But think about it.
Every shop has (and uses) a table saw, while many people
get by with out a band saw.
Given that the OP is new to woodworking. I'd say he'll run into
a brick wall rather quickly with out a table saw.
And then he'll immediately WANT a band saw.PS
Changed jobs, and now I'm putting my shop together.
Boy, do I want a band saw!
I think if one were faced with the decision to buy either a TS or a BS then one should take a good hard look at what kind of woodworking one wants to do.
I think the BS offers the most overall flexibility in terms of a single primary saw but if you're focus is on cabinets then a TS is probably the better choice, i.e. it's pretty difficult to cut rabets and/or dados on a BS. :-) Yes you can easily get around this limitation with a router.
For all around woodworking, the combination of both a TS and a BS, in my opinion, is the best.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
You sound like you are very new to the craft, so my advice is to be flexible. Especially if you are on a budget, I would say don't go new. I only have one piece of equipment in my entire shop that I paid retail for, and I have not regretted one single purchase. They are not all perfect, but neither are the new ones. Look at all of the complaints with new equipment. Retail does not guarantee you satisfaction. I make them do what I need them to do.
The biggest problem with used equipment for me has been availability. You may not be able to get exactly what you want when you want it. You need to be patient, but if you are diligent in looking on eBay, Penny Saver newpapers, craigslist, auctions, etc., you can get what you can today and upgrade as you go. I am actually making money on my table saws that I have upgraded.
My table saw progression has been
1 - low-end Delta bechtop (died)
2 - Bosch benchtop (gift to father-in-law)
3 - Delta contractors saw (found in junk pile - sold for $150)
4 - Jet Hybrid saw w/ sliding table (paid $600 on eBay, currently selling for $500)
5 - Grizzly cabinet saw (paid $400, currently selling for $500)
6 - Jet X-acta Saw - (paid $350 at auction, this is my last one)
I was able to do good work with each and every one of them and was able to upgrade as my needs and budget allowed. Don't just jump in thinking you know what you need before you start. You will most likely over pay and not end up with what you really need.
Just one guy's advice
Joby,
I bet you said that your Jet Hybrid and Grizzly Cabinetsaw were also your "last saw".Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Don't dismiss older machines! It's hard to beat a unisaw from 1940.
Tom
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