Replies

1. 
   philip_r | Sep 22, 2009 12:34am | #1

   Where do you live?  I only ask because I have about 800 bf stored and not stickered.  In Colorado, it is pretty dry (about 30% in the shop).  I would expect to sticker it if I lived in a wet and humid climate.

1. 
   tmetcalf | Sep 22, 2009 02:56pm | #4

   I live in vermont.

2. 
   bones | Sep 22, 2009 02:31am | #2

   I keep my wood stickered all the time but thats just me.  Coming from the outside to the enside will result in changes.  Rather than risk issues from just being stacked and gaining/losing unevenly, I'd rather have it occur as even as possible.  

   I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
   George Burns

3. 
   bldrbill | Sep 22, 2009 02:48am | #3

   I sticker mine until it dries, then stack it when I'm sure it's dry enough.  I don't have a moisture meter, so I guess at it.  Yours should be OK after three years. Works good in this high humidity area, Alabama.

4. 
   JohnWW | Sep 22, 2009 06:55pm | #5

   Always sticker if you want the wood to have the least amount of stress damage and to be able to use it as soon as possible once you bring it into your shop for final acclimatization.

   John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
1. 
   donkondra1 | Sep 22, 2009 07:15pm | #6

   I store my wood standing/leaning against a wall in the shop.  It's pretty easy not to have the pile too tight :)

   And no, the boards do not sag over time.

   Cheers, Don Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 22, 2009 07:46pm | #7

   I prefer to store wood on end for ease of access, but I have learned the hard way that the ends of the stock that were against the floor will have a higher moisture content than the tops of the boards. This is probably more of a problem here in New England where the floors can be cold in the winter while the ceiling areas can be very warm.John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007

1. 
   donkondra1 | Sep 22, 2009 07:55pm | #8

   Ah, I should have mentioned I have a wood floor, ceiling fan running 24/7, wood heat with electric backup.

   In my prior shop with cement floor I laid down cribbing... 

   Cheers, Don

   Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker

   Associate Editor - Canadian Woodshop News and Review<!----><!----><!---->

   Edited 9/22/2009 12:56 pm by donkondra1

   Edited 9/22/2009 1:08 pm by donkondra1

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 22, 2009 09:02pm | #9

   Don,By constantly moving the air the fan would go a long way towards evening out the climate between the floor and the ceiling, it's a good idea.John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007

2. 
   donkondra1 | Sep 22, 2009 09:11pm | #10

   I would even go so far to say that the ceiling fan is part of the reason I've never had any warping issues with panels, they also get leaned against something when not being worked on.

   Cheers, Don Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker

   Associate Editor - Canadian Woodshop News and Review <!----><!----><!---->

5. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 22, 2009 09:15pm | #11

   I for one 'sticker' ON one end off the cemet floor.  Bur then again I buy eood that was dried before... I put it about one foot above the cement or hang in the rafters.. All look the same untill I try to cut that 'Pefect stick'!

6. 
   PrunusSerotina | Sep 22, 2009 11:50pm | #12

   Always sticker, no matter how dry or wet the wood is. Kiln dried wood will absorb moisture if subjected to a moist environment. As the humidity rises, so does the MC of the wood. If the boards aren't stickered, they will absorb moisture unevenly, and thus shall no longer be at equilibrium. Then, when you go to use the wood, it will start moving and twisting (especially cherry)!

1. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 23, 2009 12:54am | #13

   There are good reasons to close stack or dead stack though, are there not? For instance, if your American cherry comes into your wood store at about 7-9% MC and your wood store exhibits RH ranging between roughly 60%- ~80+% over an average year, then stickering surely only encourages the wood to become wetter than it should ideally be for indoor furniture?

   These are the RH numbers we experience here in the UK in unheated but weather proof buildings with perhaps openings in the walls where light is allowed in; they are one reason why we routinely dead stack imported north American timbers, not just in our timber stores, but also at the timber merchant who receives the wood dead (or close) stacked and shrink wrapped by the north American kiln operator. And one of the main reasons for this cutting to length, dead stacking and shrink wrapping by the kiln operator, apart from convenience of transport, is to hold the wood they carefully dried to 7% MC as near to that moisture content for as long as possible.

   Storing or transporting dead stacked 1” (25 mm) thick boards in a tightly closed buildings or containers reduces moisture regain to about 0.2% or so per month: it would take approximately five months for the wood in a tightly packed container to gain 1% MC.

   Close stacking a pile of wood under a roofed shed open on all sides results in moisture regain in the first few weeks of between 1% and 2% MC, depending on the atmospheric relative humidity. For instance if atmospheric RH is high at 80 to 90% the “average moisture content of a pile can increase at the rate of about 2% per month during the first 45 days” (Simpson in Dietenberger, et al, 1999, Section 12-14). Simpson goes on to state that, “An absorption rate of about 1% per month can then be sustained throughout a humid season.” What this means then is that timber kiln dried to 9% MC in the UK and stored in an open shed in mid to late September could reach 13% MC by the end of January. This is at the very top of the moisture content range I’d be willing to build furniture for use in a habitable building. Slainte.

   Reference.

   Dietenberger, MA, et al, (1999) Wood Handbook: Wood as an Engineering Material. United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Products Laboratory, USA. [online] Available at < http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm > [accessed December 15, 2005]richardjonesfurniture.com

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 23, 2009 09:10pm | #14

   Slainte,The original question was, reading into it a bit, about storing wood long term, it has already been in storage for three years. The poster doesn't appear to be a professional using a lot of wood in any one year. In that case, stickered or not, the stock will have plenty of time to gain or lose moisture. In that situation, storing it stickered is the better approach since all of the wood in the stack will be reasonably close to having the same moisture content which has several advantages when the wood is finally brought into the shop.In most situations the wood should have a moisture content that is in balance with the shops humidity before starting a project, the actual numerical percentage isn't relevant.John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007

1. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 23, 2009 09:39pm | #16

   John, what you say makes sense, but I wasn't responding to the original question: I was responding to PrunusSeritona's exhortation to "always sticker", which in my experience is not always the right option. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com

1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 27, 2009 04:28pm | #23

   but I wasn't responding to the original question: I was responding to PrunusSeritona's exhortation to "always sticker"

   I have space above my shop that is VERY hot in summer and Very cold in winter with little air movement in winter.. I close it off! In Spring time I open it up but still not alot of air movement. I put a 18 inch? fan up there.

   I have only about 6 foot plus something so I do not bang my head if I am careful to watch my head space.

   For my so called 'lovely' boards.. I stack them on end! I rotate the end about every month... IF I think of it.

   I can see a 'nasty' wood with wind' really quick. Wind is crap in my opinion.  Ok, so I cut it up into useable for small things.

   Just me. Any thought except GO AWAY! ?

2. 
   Eef | Sep 23, 2009 09:18pm | #15

   slainte,
   whew!
   and thanks,
   eef

3. 
   PrunusSerotina | Sep 24, 2009 01:15am | #17

   RichardYour examples only work in a professional shop where 100's, and perhaps a few thousand board feet are dead stacked to create the barrier you speak of. The op was speaking of long term storage in a shop of a small amount of lumber, perhaps 100 bf or so. That small quantity is not enough to create the dead stack barrier you speak of.In a professional, fast consuming cabinet or furniture shop, I think your example(s) fit perfectly well. However, I don't see the relevance in this particular instance.My personal experiences dictate sticker-stacking, as I have only a few hundred board feet of each species in my shop. Through trial and error over the past couple of decades, I have found that keeping the wood stickered allows me to know that it is at equilibrium with my shop humidity conditions, which I control year round.I guess the absolute correct answer depends on the specific situation. Your example is definitely correct for your conditions, as is my solution to my conditions. As a whole, though, I think it's a good idea to teach woodworkers, especially hobbyists, to sticker the lumber for overall best results.BTW, I didn't reread my previous post, but if indeed I did state to ALWAYS sticker, I guess it should be edited to read "always sticker for long term storage so that all the lumber will be close to the same MC."

   Edited 9/23/2009 6:18 pm ET by PrunusSerotina

1. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 25, 2009 10:40am | #18

   I agree, PrunusS, that stickering is the right option in this instance. But I also hold to my opinion that your advice to 'always sticker' is not correct. In the circumstances you described of very large volumes of wood going through a furniture manufacturing plant it's quite likely the wood is kiln dried and dead stacking is the right option; therefore you agree with me that to always sticker is not the right advice.

   On a side note, the work that goes through our workshop is not batch or mass production and we very rarely stick anything. At the moment we have nothing stickered up-- all the wood we have in stock, and it's not a huge amount, perhaps 25 or 35 cubic feet,  is dead stacked on the floor or on the wood racks. The reason for this is that all the wood we have in stock is kiln dried, either to the US standard of 7% or the UK standard of about 10% MC, and the wood storage area is also in the workshop which is kept at the same temperature and RH numbers as a typical British house.

   The only time stickering occurs on a regular basis is if some air dried wood comes in. Air dried wood around these parts never gets below about 18% MC, and even that's relatively rare, so stickering makes sense to bring the stuff down to 8- 10% MC before it's used. In our case, once wood has reached something like 8-10% MC it gets dead stacked, and it stays that way until we need to use it, which may be almost immediately, or months and even years later.

   I'd say were are closer to agreeing to disagreeing, but that I introduced a wider range of wood storage considerations than most people that responded in this thread focused on. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com

1. 
   joinerswork | Sep 26, 2009 12:57am | #19

   Richard,

   What you've described matches my experience in the various shops I've worked in over the years.  Typically, kiln dried lumber arrives dead-stacked (bundled) on a truck, or is bought at a dealers (where it is dead stacked if K-D), and dead stacked in the rack til needed.  In the shops I've worked at, the lumber rack is in an area of the shop that is at least minimally heated.  Only stripped lumber is that which is being dried; once dried to ambient conditions, it is moved to the rack and dead stacked where it takes up less room.

   Ray

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Sep 26, 2009 04:13am | #20

   It might be worthwhile to throw in an addenda for those who work in shops that aren't continuously heated and/or cooled.  That unfortunately is the circumstance for many hobbiest woodworkers.  That means the shop environment is constantly changing.  That suggests to me that for those shops, stickering could be particularly important since otherwise boards will often be in unbalanced transition between humidity levels.  That's not as good as keeping the boards at a steady state but better than having one surface particularly dry or wet. 

3. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 27, 2009 11:12am | #21

   Ray, I've noticed we are tending towards shared experiences and agreeing with one another quite often.

   Could this lead to boring exchanges of mutual sage head nodding and gentle pipe sucking as we right the world's wrongs and sup our beers together in our dotage, ha, ha? Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com

4. 
   joinerswork | Sep 27, 2009 04:16pm | #22

   Richard,

   Sounds good to me.  Nice warm chimney-corner, good intelligent conversation ;-) , and a pint of the best.  Guinness I heard celebrated their 250th this past week.

   Cheers,

   Ray

7. 
   oldusty | Sep 27, 2009 04:39pm | #24

     I know this is late but heres my spin,

             If the wood is air dried stickering it is more important then KD , in my experience air dried boards will change RH factors at a higher percentage .

      In commercial applications we are using KD materials and it does not get stickered , and it stays stable because it was stable before it gets stacked.

    The amount of change in KD materials is negligable in most stable environments.

       The stickers themselves can cause defects or marks on the materials as well as wavy boards in some cases .

       regards        dusty