I am in the process in the process of adding a mortise machine to my humble little tool collection, I mean workshop.
I am leaning toward a horizontal boring machine such as described in FWW sometime back, or as Kernov describes. I have also had the opportunity to test drive a setup very similar to the FWW one, and was very pleased with the results and the process. Although I still have my doubts mainly, owing the overwhelming commercial support the hollow chisel mortes machines have in the market place. I keep thinking maybe I have missed something. So, I would like to run some thoughts by you.
A hollow chisel mortiser was my first choice, but after using a couple the only one I liked was a behemoth of a machine, the Delta machine I used chopped square holes for sure, but I do not use the term chopped for nothing. I under stand that with careful setup, sharp high quality bits; the small mortiser would meet my needs. The large new breed of machines I see from Powermatic or General weighing in at 300+ pounds are about half the size of the behemoth I used, and appear capable of handling anything I might throw at them.
The horizontal boring machine was a joy to use, cutting very clean slots, although with rounded ends. The machine did not take up much space seemed fairly easy to setup and operate.
Maybe the bottom line is, COST.
A low-end hollow chisel machine with fair quality bits and a means to sharpen them would cost approximately $500-$600. The higher end choice like the General, a good set of bits and sharpening tools comes to roughly $1,200-$1,500.
The idea I am kicking around right now includes using a low cost Grizzly lathe with a 5/8” chuck and end mills. This setup could be had for about $300.
The only down side to the lathe and end mills I can see is the mortise width limit and having to devise a method for setting up stops to make cutting multiple mortises easer.
What do you think?
Replies
The big difference in machines is the table. The small ones do not have moving tables, you move the piece. They all chop. The industrial models have a foot pedal and nice tables but they chop. I don't know about the lathe idea. It takes some power to make a deep cut. A plunge router (you may own one) with a purchased or shop made jig works nicely, tenons too, round or square. You can make as many depth adjustments as necessary the only limit is the bit length If you want square corners an inexpensive bench drill press with a mortice attachment can clean them up, if the fixture fits the quill. Mortice chisels have a limited depth too.
Nick,
Well...first I will ask, do you have a drill press and/or a router? If so, then I'd just get some good quality Forstner bits and chuck 'em in the DP (or pick up a hollow chisel attachment), or build an adjustable mortising jig for the router. You could also build a horizontal attachment for a router table. Much cheaper. A dedicated horiz. mortiser, IMHO, is an unnecessary addition to the home shop. For a busy, production outfit it's good, but it's basically a fancy way of holding and moving a piece of stock in order to bore a hole. You can skin that cat in many other, more efficient ways. Unless money's not an object. I like the lathe idea, because in the end, you still have the lathe...
Richard,
I tried the drill press with the attachment a few years ago, it did not work out for me. I did learn what separates a good drill press from a $150 import. After many hours of adjustments and jigging, I did get passable results, but the time to setup the whole thing to cut mortises was just not working for me. I have thought about the router path and have seen a number of setups, which appeared to cut the mortise and the tenon. Maybe I should think about router method a little more. On the other hand, with the lathe setup I end up with a lathe, although I was planning to buy a low cost lathe.
As to money being no object, a very strange transformation has come over me in the last few years. When I started this hobby, I most definitely had more time than money. Now it seems that I have no money or time. I am trying to find that perfect balance between cost and time, when I figure it out I will be sure to post it.
Nick,
I had the same idea about using a lathe for morticing-- tried it, and got poor results. I tried different speeds and feed rates, but the bit would always tend to grab. My conclusion was that the Jacobs chuck and chuck arbor moved the bit far enough away from the spindle bearing to allow the end of the bit to flex and wander just enough to cause the bit to grab.
I used a #14N Jacobs chuck with #2MT arbor on a Nova 3000 lathe (1-1/4" spindle, much more substantial lathe than the Grizzly). I haven't tried it, but you could try a #2MT arbor collet to hold the end mill directly, eliminating the Jacobs chuck, and you might get better results.
So go ahead and get a lathe, but don't get your hopes up about using it for mortising. Like a lot of turners, you will get so addicted to turning that you will wonder why you ever wanted to cut mortises in the first place.
Rick
Nick, Check out lock mortising machines. And adapt it for whatever placement needed for your work
I installed wood doors for fifty years and mortised out thousands of locks and other door hardware. I used a 1/2 inch capacty Router with 4 " long bits and various templates I made for the required mortises.
Accurate, tight fitting but hand chiseling the corners.
Stein.
Nick, I have tried several different methods for cutting square holes and I have found that depending on the application, how deep, how many, and how wide the majority of the mortises you will cut, should be the determining factor for which method you use. The router as stated earlier is limited (slightly) in depth of cut and is also loud and time consuming ( Number of passes to finished depth). Chisels are a patient mans tool (of which I am not) and are also time consuming for cutting numerous mortises. The hollow chisel mortisers in the lower price ranges are alittle quicker, quieter, and easy to set up but as also stated earlier you must move the stock by hand. I use all these methods for certain situations, but the MAJORITY of the square holes that I cut can be accomplished with my dedicated hollow chisel machine (Powermatic floor model). This is a great tool for cutting NUMEROUS holes. Very accurate and repeatable, quick, and quite to. The majoity of the work that I do, though, has mortise and tenon joinery and I use my Powermatic alot. If you don't plan on cutting tons of mortises, than perhaps the router (which is as good if not better) is your best avenue. Again you have to way how often you will use the tool and what it's limitations are to determine if the expense is worth it. I hope the I haven't made things less clear than before, but these are the considerations that I made when deciding which tool to buy and use. Good luck either way. Jason.
Nick,
A big, powerful router, properly used might be the best tool ever to cut mortises.
I just finished a project where we had to cut several thousand MT joints in maple. It's a Christmas project and we're in the "rush phase." We have both a foot-operated chisel mortiser and a router set up. I made a robust jig for the router, including hefty stop blocks for the mortise length. I used a Bosch 2-1/2 hp, 1/2" collet, plunge router and a straight 1/2" double fluted carbide bit with a long cutting edge (2") and the Bosch edge guide.
It's all about speed and power. The bigger the router the better. The first few dozen mortises, I was a little tentative, carefully turning the depth-control turret 1/8" at a time, carefully cutting down to the 1" mortise depth. The bit left just slight burn marks at the bottom of the mortise at the two ends of the hole. There was just the slightest hint of stair-stepping on the sides of the mortise - more visual that actual.
Eventually, I got more confident, stopped using the depth control in step fashion, set it at maximum cut and locked the plunge lever open leaving just the springs to resist plunge force. The harder and faster I used the router, the better the mortise. The machine had the power to turn the bit and the faster I pushed it through the wood, the less tendancy for any wood burn.
I actually couldn't push as fast as the machine could have cut. I could plunge right down to maximum depth in one motion as I moved along the mortise length, come back to the other end - done. Absolutely clean, crisp and straight mortises without the slightest hint of burn.
Yes the router is loud, but cutting this way, it was on only for an instant - Brrrrp. Done! Almost like it wasn't on at all. The time to put the piece in the jig and remove it was much longer than the cutting operation.
It went so much faster than the chisel mortiser, that we stopped using that completely. After a few hundred mortises I was wishing for a bigger router! It seemed that more power would actually reduce the noise and effort!
Yes, the mortises have round ends. The effort went so well, we decided to mortise the tenon pieces as well and use splines (machined with matching round edges, using a 1/2" bull-nose bit). The end grain of the "tenon pieces" cut like butter!
I'll now be able to cut occasional mortises much better with the router. The project was a learning experience that changed my technique completely. Big, fast, strong, really gets the job done. I think it's safer, too.
If you do cut tenons, don't do them with a router. Cut them on a table saw with a jig to hold the piece vertically. And ALWAYS index from a single face, using spacer blocks to move the tenon piece the proper distance for shoulder width and tenon thickness. Using a router to cut tenons usualy forces you to index from each face, a recipe for poor-fitting joints, unless you stand the piece up on the router table. And then you are better off using the table saw, anyway.
Good luck,
VL
I'd stick with your original inclination. The machine is called a horizontal slot mortiser. FWW # 141 has a simple DIY version. Next step up would be the Laguna/Robland which is basically the mortiser off a combo machine set on a stand with a router or better yet to use pillow blocks and a 3450 rpm motor. For around $500 it comes with a mortising chuck. I know someone with the unit and it seems pretty nice. All the shops around here use the horizontal slot mortiser exclusively such as Griggio, SCM, etc. I've even converted old handmmills to slot mortisers which can often be found at scrap yard prices. An old metal working tool in worn condition has more accuracy than some new woodworking machines. Would you believe the slot mortiser was invented in Europe in the 50's and still remains one of the best kept secrets in the states. If the companies would put the effort in they could make a slot mortiser to compete with the chisel ones. There was one about 15 years ago but it couldn't generate enough sales to keep it going. I think you will find the lathe idea frustrating. Contact Laguna directly as they no longer show the mortiser on their site but it's still available. I've been using horizontal slot mortisers for many years. Use the 2 flute endmill, not the 4 flute type.
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