I was looking at this plane and I wanted to see if you Plane Experts have any opinions if it is any good. Price seems very reasonable to me but I just use planes not a expert or even have any real knowledge about them.
I know it is HARD to get any opinions from you Planes lovers… LOL…
Would like opinions on..
Blum Tool Company introduces our new American-made wooden plane to the market and if you want the other planes shown.
http://www.blumtool.com/pages/benchplanes.html
Replies
Science Project of a plane. Need a jig to hone the blade. Front knob looks like a pepper grinder. Unable to read through the whole web page of propaganda. Will stick with what works. Hope I didn't sugar-coat it too much. Take care, Ed
Hope I didn't sugar-coat it too much. lol...
Ed: Do you drive one o' them science project car thangs or are you sticking with the horse and trap (known to work, after a fashion)? :-)
Napie: "Why" you ask. Why not?
Philip: I hope you are not going to type too much good sense here as it may cause the buckles on a certain pair of shoes to glow red hot with indignation.
Will: Get one o' them generous daughters of yourn to make a purchase for her dear ole Pa. Then you must submit a thorough test here to us all at Knots, despite the usual tradition of speaking entirely through one's nether region and in a wholly theoretical fashion about such things without actually using them. I know you are a practical chap with an eye for reality, helped by not donning dogma-blinkers and an inclination to play happily and without an idealogical axe for grinding, the while.
Lataxe, easily swayed by gleaming new objects, especially when they work.
" I hope you are not going to type too much good sense here as it may cause the buckles on a certain pair of shoes to glow red hot with indignation."
I am laughing too much....In fact the modulus of risibility is under some strain.Philip Marcou
>Ed: Do you drive one o' them science project car thangs or are you sticking with the horse and trap (known to work, after a fashion)? :-)<Lataxe: "Science Project" means a kludge - something that looks complex but is really overly cobbled together. The second meaning is something that takes a long time to undo. I think the term mostly comes from the military. An example would be: "A person named Lataxe suggested several times that people use the 'ruler trick' on the flat sides of their bench chisels. If a person was indeed foolish enough to do this, once a person figured out that this was not really a good idea, it would be a science project to undo the damage."Maybe I'm a guy that cuts down "tall poppies," - I certainly saw enough of that when I lived in Australia, being tall, and obviously, a "Yank," but 2000 years of handplane evolution is good enough for me. I have a sense of wonder and exploration, but I'm good on where we are with handplanes, particularly bench planes, at this point.No one will believe this, but I hope my comments would actually be useful to the plane maker, not destructive - that it is just one guy's opinion, a guy who's worked with power tools for a long time and hand tools maybe 7 years, who goes to the web site completely cold, never having seen or used that kinds of plane before, expressed in a fashion that's similar to sports talk radio in the USA - short, raw, totally truthful to the impression of opinion. Note that the title of the thread asks for an opinion, not an observation. Looking at the plane in more detail, he seems to want to build the case, and a big selling point, on the idea that there is no need to ever grind the bevel because the cutter is thin - I don't get that. I WANT to be able to grind the bevel. I do it with a combination of power grinder and hand grinder, it doesn't take long, and it gives me a number of options (bevel angle, camber, where I want to go to on the flat of the blade if there's a nick or flaw that I'm grinding out, etc.), every time I do it. Also, the concavity of the bevel makes it easy to hone freehand to an extremely sharp point on waterstones, oilstones, PSA honing film, whatever you want to use. Grinding the bevel is part of the whole package for me - if it means I'm pigeon-holed as close-minded, well heck, I will just have to be pigeon-holed as closed-minded. Like I say, 2000 years of evolution in handplanes is good enough for me. Almost all of L-N's product line is a classy update of the golden age of American tool-making. That works. I understood it completely, the whole business model, the entire essence of what they do, maybe five years ago. That's good enough for me, I'm on it, I get it, I understand it, it works, bring it on. I intend to eventually buy a copy of the entire product line, except for the benches, but I like old tools, too. Maybe that makes me a multi-categorist in Philip's little pigeon-hole system.As an added bonus, neither Thomas L-N or Larry Williams stoop to a bunch of cheap-azz huckstering on this forum that I come to for relaxation and enjoyment. So I recommend that everyone buy their stuff.Peace, out, O.J.
Edited 9/28/2007 12:13 pm by EdHarrison
Ed,
Sorry for jabbing that nerve o' yours then. I am a clumsy oaf, especially when having my fun. I know a daft old dog that I learnt it from. Big heavy paw right on yer vitals, just to get that ball!
It's true that some of those American phrases are a bit of a mystery at times to a simple British lad. Also, the stubborn refusal to look at the unfamiliar seems somehow, well....unamerican, to me who admires the can-do and innovatory aspects of that culture.
Anyway, as you seem to think I need a good tellin', please explain your "cheap azz huckstering" remark, as that one has got me floundering about a bit. Is this a euphemism for "buzz marketing", another accusation sometimes made which, for the life of me, I cannot grasp.
Are we not allowed to talk about, notice or even praise tools we find to our liking? Not relaxing enough for nervy ole Ed? Unfair to Mr LN or Larry, who can hardly sell a tool for huckters in their way? Ah divvn't gerrit.
As to opinions - have them by all means. Personally I prefer those that pop out of a reasoning process (such as the one you do now provide) or some experience, rather than the bald, negative and condemnatory ones reminiscent of gutter press newspaper editorials concerning bogeymen hyped-up just to knock down again.
Lataxe, whose chisels seem to cut rather well, despite the backbevel of 1/Nth degree (oh bugger, another kludge-heresey commited).
Cheap azz huckstering:1) "Cold Calls" via e-mail by some individual who wants to sell you something and got your email address via your participation in this forum.
2) The presence of someone like Victor Kuc, who enters this forum and contributes absolutely nothing but posts that say here's something that you can buy and here's a link to where you can buy it. If you look at the sum total of Victor Kuc's posts before his flareup with Philip, that's what you get.
3) The presence of a "shill," who, regardless of whether he means to, or whether he is just being manipulated, turns every thread, every single thread on a certain topic, over the course of months and hundreds of posts, into an advertisement for your product.
4) Similar activity on all the other American-based woodworking forums.After a while, it looks like advertising. If you're some guy who has been reading this forum for a long time and reading the magazine for a long time and feels a kind of loyalty to the magazine because he's learned so much from it, after a while you wake up one day and think, 'Where did this come from? I'm being advertised to. This looks exactly like advertising, but it looks like a kind of sneaky, sleazy form of advertising, that's probably not even been paid for.'Now I must apologize for being someone who is probably a pain to your nerves, but please do not ask for my opinion unless you really want it. I do hope the Taunton editors take a look at this.
Ed Harrison
Ed,
That is an excellent rant and full of lovely paranoid accusations of the most imaginative kind. Bravo!
I might send you my Special Diagram, reserved for those who feel the world is conspiring agin' them. It is a big cloud labelled "galaxy". In the centre of the cloud is a point labelled "centre". Out near the periphery is a very small dot labelled "you". (Don't worry, there's an even smaller and more peripheral dot labelled "me").
Keep them opinions coming; they are a fascinating insight and most entertaining.
Lataxe, your cheap azz analyst.
PS I am writing to Taunton to ask them to remove all adverts from the magazine and elsewhere, as we cannot have you being advertised to if it hurts so much. Have they no mercy?
Well I hope my corner of the galaxy is the capitalist corner and not the socialist corner.One concept that is fairly important that you may have missed, Lataxe, is that when the "Cheap Azz Huckstering" is actually paid for, you get to remove the word "Cheap," a primary difference between the paid for ads in the magazine and anything else.Any more insults other than the "galaxy" thing? I can tell you're a bit wounded, now, and they'll come fast and furious from this point forward.
Ed,
I apologise if I have insulted you - I thought we were just yapping in a vigorous fashion. In all events, it's some of them memes lodged in your head that I'm tilting at, not you (whoever "you" may be - all I see is your Knots atavar of course, as you see mine).
A socialist! He he, first time I've been called that. Happily I am not any kind of ist - at least not for more than ten minutes or so, as a little banter is indulged in. Why man, Ah change me mind aal the time! (Keeps them memes in order, the little rascals - they never know if they're in favour or not).
But what is this strange idea that talking about goods that happen to be sold for profit by the makers, without claiming an advertising budget for doing so, is somehow anti-capitalist? That one really does have me twisting some logic about to grasp (failed so far, though but).
Now, I can see you're a bit concerned for my welfare (your secret socialist tendencies perhaps) so I know you'll be relieved that I'm not "wounded". I will be relieved if you too are unmarked. Surely you must be, as you are a full grown chap and used to humour, even at your own expense? If not may I suggest you have a try at the following:
After me - look in a mirror; realise what a daft thing is looking back at you; laugh sheepishly and go about your business whistling a happy tune. I do it every morning. :-)
Lataxe, sorry for teasing you when you was feeling serious-like.
I'm not a gambling man, but I'd be curious as to what the over/under is for the number of times you'll mention Marcou Planes in the next 12 months: 400? 500? How many photos? 10? 20? Not bad exposure.
Edited 9/28/2007 3:48 pm by EdHarrison
Ed,
You predict:
"I'm not a gambling man, but I'd be curious as to what the over/under is for the number of times you'll mention Marcou Planes in the next 12 months: 400? 500? How many photos? 10? 20? Not bad exposure".
You're confusing my role as happy, gloating owner with that shill thang you mentioned. If only Hiz Excellency would send me that advertising budget, then you would see some persuasive stuff! I would make you an offer you couldn't refuse.
Meanwhile you are now second on the list of Marcou-mentioners. I hope you are not covering your shilling with a clever disguise-blanket of counter accusations! That is an old trick perfected in Stalin's Soviet Republic (my suspicions of your tendencies are growing).
In all events, them planes is very good and [message curtailed by the anti-shill warden; the evil socialist culprit has been taken away for meme-adjustment].
No need to apologize, Lataxe - I enjoy the verbal joists. Keep 'em coming. The word "insult" was probably a bad one.
Listen, Ed, I am interested in hand planes . I make them. I will talk about them because people are interested. There is a web site to advertise them- they are not advertised here, despite what you may claim.
If I am the shill you refer to , I think you are barking up the wrong tree- that is a nasty accusation and I least expected it from you.
I also will talk about woodworking and any other things with folk here, as long as I feel there is interest in common- it is after all a forum.
Sorry to see that that you don't like this, but you are very much in the minority.
Anyway, I am still interested to hear from anyone who has used the Blum plane: or is there a reason in your mind why I should not be?Philip Marcou
I was right! I just knew my simple question would stir up a hornets nest! I'm having fun reading all this and I still have no idea is that plane is any good! Life is still good!it could be a decent scraper, but I'm sceptical it has any advantages as a plane.. That was my first reaction when I saw the plane. However, my second thought was it reminded be of a adjustable planner blade at the same time. But then again, a planner blade rotates at high speed. I think I'll go with my Lee Valley catalog.
>Anyway, I am still interested to hear from anyone who has used the Blum plane: or is there a reason in your mind why I should not be?<Do I have a reason in my mind why you should not be interested in a plane,....????????....No, can't say that I do. Have a party.
Cheap azz huckstering:
3) The presence of a "shill," who, regardless of whether he means to, or whether he is just being manipulated, turns every thread, every single thread on a certain topic, over the course of months and hundreds of posts, into an advertisement for your product. 4) Similar activity on all the other American-based woodworking forums.
After a while, it looks like advertising. If you're some guy who has been reading this forum for a long time and reading the magazine for a long time and feels a kind of loyalty to the magazine because he's learned so much from it, after a while you wake up one day and think, 'Where did this come from? I'm being advertised to. This looks exactly like advertising, but it looks like a kind of sneaky, sleazy form of advertising, that's probably not even been paid for.'
Hi Ed<!----><!----><!---->
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I am interested in but somewhat confused about your definition of “shill”. This may explain a lot - either way – that is, whether you have it right or wrong.<!----><!---->
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According to my Longman “Dictionary of the English Language” (Longman, by way of getting facts out into the open, are sponsors of the Guardian Prize Crossword), a “shill” is “a person who poses (e.g. as a customer or gambler) so as to entice others”. <!----><!---->
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Being the Cautious fellow I am, I searched my Oxford English Dictionary (Oxford, incidentally, are discredited by the Cambridge-educated members of my family, but I am more open-minded). The OED stated that a shill was “an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice others”.<!----><!---->
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Since both note that the term is of North American origin, I was concerned that my English background may be missing a subtle connotation that might cause the term to be defined differently. Lacking a North American dictionary, I turned to the The Free Dictionary on the www. Happily (or not), this just appeared to repeat the same idea, “One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.<!----><!---->
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Perhaps I am Thick (Longman, “sluggish, dull”) but my understanding of “shill” continues to be that the individual, who acts in this capacity, is doing so deliberately or Consciously (Longman, “perceiving or noticing with a degree of controlled thought or observation”, “capable of or marked by thought, will, intention, or perception”). <!----><!---->
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According to your (above) definition or use of the term, a “shill” may also be someone who is unaware that he is duping others. In other words, this person may be acting in a Unconscious manner (“without conscious control; involuntary or unintended”, TFD). Ah ha! Now my long years of Psychoanalysis are going to pay off. I understand this term. You are obviously thinking Oedipal Complex … heh …heh… (wink, wink, nudge, nudge …).<!----><!---->
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As you know I have written several tool reviews. I was hoping to do more. They are meant to be educational, but now I realize that they were conspirational. I thought that the criticism leveled at me after some was for my prose or grammar – something that I had conscious control over - but now I understand that it was for something that I was unaware I was doing. The dupe that I am. And I just thought that I was In League With The Tool Companies. <!----><!---->
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I am concerned. Should we have all contributions to the forums first screened by the Thought Police? How will I know if I am harboring the thoughts of others (without going through more costly psychoanalysis)? Do I just assume that I have no Original Thought (OT)? Even worse, how do I know that you have OT and are not yourself a shill? I am confused again.<!----><!---->
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Perhaps we can evade the Thought Controllers if we avoid using the names of companies, such as Veritas, Lie-Niesen, Clark & Williams, Marcou? We could instead just write “a company in Warren”, or “the Canadian colony”, “the fellows in Eureka Springs”, or “that chappie Downunder”? What about just saying “company X” and “company Y”? <!----><!---->
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The thought occurred to me (and … mmm … was this planted in my unconscious ,..? … anyway…) that I must refrain from mentioning that I build tools or displaying pictures of them since someone must be wondering if I plan to set up a company and indoctrinate all into purchasing my wares one of these days. <!----><!---->
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Another thought. Perhaps writers to the forum who make tools professionally or build furniture professionally or write books for a living or are paid for contributing to a magazine – all these should cease forthwith from any forum activity. Of course they are not permitted (by the Thought Police) to praise their own work since this would be an obvious act of a shill. This includes the act of criticizing another company or person’s ideas, since this is simply the promotion of the idea that that their ideas are better than another persons ideas. <!----><!---->
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All this writing has been hard on my psyche. I must stop now and be off for more medication.
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Regards from Perth
<!----><!---->Derek
"conspirational?"Well you've stumped both the Oxford American Dictionary that is built into my Macintosh OS and the hardcover dictionary beside my desk with that one, but I like it.Get well soon, Derek.
Derek,
Thank you for that, it was the most entertaining post that I've ever read on a woodworking forum!
-Andy, fellow student of the Unconscious, also apparently brainwashed into conspiring with The Companies
Only one comment:
Why?
Only one comment:Why?It was a plane I saw that I thought may have something to offer and the price seemed good. As I stated, I just use planes. I know little about them. All I care about them is will it cut well and reasonably easy to keep that way.
Hi Will,
A couple things that strike me the wrong way are:
You may not be able to use regular jigs to sharpen/hone the blades as they won't fit. You can make a jig but it's probably more cost efficient to buy theirs.
It appears to me that you would have to get replacement blades only from Blum, which to me is a Blummer, Oooops (typo?). I frown on attempts to lock me into only one supplier.
As for performance to expect I obviously haven't a clue on that aspect. I would certainly like to try one though as Lataxe points out - if it's a new idea let's give it a whirl B4 passing judgement.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 9/27/2007 7:29 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
The guy asked for an opinion from "all Plane lover," based on a web page, he got one.I am a plane lover but I would rather have a wall of molding planes (I have about 45 currently) rather than yet another smoother, minimal backlash or not, which I have about six of already and feel like its been overdone to death for somthing that performs such a simple function.But, I forgot, this has become a forum for advertising, not expressing your opinion....wonder who's red hot with indignation now?
Will,
You are not going to get any sense out of anyone here unless there is someone who has actually used one of these planes-that includes me ,but here's my take on the plane:-
Don't expect anything from users of Old Iron Stanley types: first of all the Blum plane is wooden so that eliminates these fellows as nothing will convince them that iron is not better than wood. Also, these guys are lost without at least 24hours worth of backlash in the adjuster, and I am sure there is nothing like that amount of lost motion in the Blum adjuster. Knob twiddling is obligatory with these chaps, you know.
Then there is another small, but vocal group : them or that chap that uses Ye Very Olde Wooden Planesf, the longer and more beaft up the better.All of the Blum planes appear Exceedingly Well, they do have adjusters and none are long enough therefore they are useless as they cannot straighten anything longer than 33 inches .As for smoothers, these are just not required, because dining room table tops and other nice surfaces will inevitably be ruined by three year old children armed with rocks, therefore why smooth them in the first place?Anyway, all those Blum planes are brand new. So that is that one out of the way.
Then we have the Elitists- them that favour the modern answer to what Stanley should have done in the first place- quite nice, functional planes made by Comrades Thomas and Robin. They simply will not tolerate a Wooden Plane, especially as it is frogless, and has a blade one can hardly see. (Ignore that last remark-Gillette recently came up with a razor that has 4 blades that one can hardly see-and they boosted sales by an unanticipated amount).So out they go.
Then there is that group, of whom we hear little here, that uses quality bespoke Wooden planes made by the well known Uncle Larry. Whilst one cannot expect an answer from Larry, as it would not be kosher, one might get a response from an enthusiast of C&W Planes-and one would listen .But maybe Larry can tell us if there is in fact anything new about the Blum plane.
You must admit they look well. I certainly would like to try one,pepper shaker knob or not, and see how well it makes shavings in any wood presented, ranging in thickness from halfamill to 2 thou, and how long the blade lasts.
PhilipThanks for the reply. I realize that most of the folks that respond to questions about hand tools have some pretty strong opinions. I'm OK with that. A few seem to go off the deep end BUT that's what free speech is all about. Anyway, I get a good belly laugh reading some of the opinions.I only own one wooden plane and it is a really old wooden Jointer? Works really well but I usually just use my 'electric jointer'.I thought they looked nice and a knob can be changed if I do not like the feel of it.I asked the question because I have limited 'real' knowledge of planes. All I know is if it cuts well when I'm using it!Of the replies that may come in maybe I can get some reasonable reasons why I shouldn't't get one OR should get one.We will see!Anyway, I don't mind if folks sound off. I do it sometimes too!Maybe I'll just order it and see for myself. I'v bought more expensive 'junk' than that plane costs.I serviced BIG machines all my life and did many maintainability studies for new products so I know a bit about metals and things likely to fail because of the stresses they are subject to. It's just I have never given planes much thought.
philip,
You and Lataxe are really too funny.
I'm really not quite sure which of your user categories I fit into. More of the Ye Olde Purfuit of Wedgineff type, altho I have one or six os the fpecialised Old Iron Ftanley metal bodief, and even waf gisted with a fpanking new Very Fhiney Fteel and Braff Trimmed Elitift Fhoulder Plane. Pleafe, help me to tranfpofe the computer keyf , and take the buckle from my fhoe, and put it back it onto my belt.
Being on my 5th Old Iron Stanley Low Angled Block Plane iron, and about to change out to #6, my 2d Primus (Knob-adjustable!) hi angle wooden block plane iron, and having worn out two smooth plane irons and one foreplane iron in the past thirty-five yrs, I'm skeptical that those little bitty blades would last too long, if you use them regularly, and keep them sharp (maybe this isn't an issue, for the intended owners). Although the novelty of the new-fangled "frog" and adjuster is appealing, I wonder how well the blade will hold its adjustment if it hits a knot, or reversed grain--will those two screws thru the "cap iron" keep it in place better than the similar arrangement that an old Stanley spokeshave has?
I like the svelte lines of the long jointer. Kind of a double razee. It could be in a Weight Watchers, or Jenny Craig ad. Bet it's really limber and flexible too, maybe it can double as a really long compass plane?
I believe I'll wait till Derek's review.
Ray
Ray,
I believe you have abused them plane irons by using them to actually flatten stuff and that. Also, you have not limited them to softwood, I'll bet! I thought you C18 lads LIKED badly-fitting, lumpy softwood stuff? (Ooops, wrong frou-frou maker). :-)
If Derek reviews one o' them Blums, I will hang on his every word, as usual. He is a bloke that is blinker-free and has a wetware unpopulated by dogma-meme. WillG might also do us the favour of being the lab-gerbil. I for one will be grateful.
Lataxe, who likes a good experiment, even ones that explode or stink a bit.
If Derek reviews one o' them Blums...
... then hopefully we may achieve a state of Enlightenment.
My first reaction on seeing one of Gary Blum's designs was fascination. Here is someone who is an Original Thinker, prepared to put his money where his mouth is, and the reaction of the crowd is to hiss and throw stones. In Australia we have this concept of the "Tall Poppy" - one who achieves and for his pains is treated with suspicion and jealousy, and then becomes a target of criticism for the underachievers. "Mow him down! Off with his head!"
The Traditionalist side of me enjoys vintage tool design and classic furniture construction. The Scientist wants to know how it works. The Child enjoys the creativity of different ideas and methods. ...
Lataxe, you will have your way in the near future. Gary asked a while back that I review some of his planes. The review planes are nearly ready. I am excited at the prospect of discovering something new. Of course, they remain woodworking tools, and we want to know whether they will do the job, and how well. Hopefully I can do justice to the questions that most of us want to answer.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
Ah, The Enlightenment. Some folk have missed it entirely. I yam going to start a charity that puts a copy of David Hume into every hotel bedroom............ :-) Maybe also a copy of Thomas Kuhn's fine work, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.
Lataxe, more a ripe and ragged burdock (including stickybuds) than a poppy.
Ray, I have noted with great interest that you have worn out smoother blades at twice the rate at which you have worn out jointer irons:just now a person could have us believe that you have been doing something wrong...
I have given some thought as to which category you belong and believe that it is the category of the Open Minded- seems like a fairly rare breed at this stage, but some selected intermingling would yield blue chip results. Possibly your Indian is to you as a Vincent Black Shadow or Velocette Venom is to me. To whom would we ascribe the Penny Farthing Bythickle?
On a different tack it occurs to me that minds could be exercised with the humour of describing the perception we have of each other , going on what is said by and known about, folks on this forum. Maybe someone like Mel or Lataxe could start? Ofcourse, buckles or no, a book should not be judged by the cover. Philip Marcou
philip,
The reason that I wear out smoother irons faster than jointer plane irons, is that I am also wearing out cutters for my Rockwell jointer, and my Parks planer. You see, I am one of those who is satisfied most of the time with taking a pass or two off machined stock with the smoother. I have nothing to prove anymore by expending all that energy hogging off excess material by hand--got that out of my system long ago-- I do it when necessary, not as a means of establishing credibility. Kind of an old bull/young bull thing I guess.
You may have noted that I have worn out a great many block plane irons. For a long time, the little Stanley plane was the only plane I owned; the shops I worked in before opening my own, while well regarded, did not rely much on hand tools to get the job done. A block plane was "all you need". And I did a bit of trim carpentry a while ago, the kind where miters were individually fitted.
It is easy and fun to pigeonhole those we meet. I suppose that it is a human characteristic to do so. I have on occasion had to re-pigeonhole an individual whom I had "figured out". A couple of my best friends are characters I did not get along with at all initially. And one or two "friends" I thought I had, turned out to be not that at all.
So, I think you are right, that a book should not be judged by its cover. And sometimes a book that does not appeal to us at first reading, later on proves to speak volumes to a need we didn't have previously.
I try to be openminded. As one gains life experience, he realises that long held conceptions aren't always in line with reality, and must be adjusted, unless one prefers becoming a mental contortionist, or gymnast. Of course this presumes an awareness of reality, and a willingness to accept it. Easier to keep the blinders on, really, and proceed as usual. "Don't confuse me with facts, I know what I believe to be true."
The Indian is a midlife indugence. A 50 yr birthday gift to myself, the Chief is the materialization of a 10 yr old's dream, "One day, I'm gonna have one of those..." from back in the day when Indian motorcycles still roamed the earth, with their feathered head-dresses and fringes shaming Harleys everywhere. And so, I climb aboard, kick it into life, and am transported to a different place and time, not a bad investment, really. And the wife admits that while she worries a bit when I am riding, she says, "Better an Indian, than a girlfriend.". Did you know that Vincent and Indian nearly merged in the early '50's, and that as a last ditch effort to keep the brand alive, that Indian Sales Co (owned by that time by a British firm, Brockhurst I think), marketed a Velo under the Indian marque in the 60's? (Sadly, but appropriately, these bikes are often restored as "real" Velocettes, rather than "Indian" Velos). So you see we have another interest in common.
I can see Lataxe, that refried hippie, aboard a bythickle, pedaling happily along, purple bell-bottoms flapping dangerously near the chainguard, lavender paisley shirtcollar points dangling just above elbows, lazily fueled by a very small pipeful of suspicious smelling propellant. Oh, wow, man. Dig those crazy butterflies.
Cheers,
Ray
Ray,
And Frankenstien shoes for the Jolly Biscuiteer?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
C'mon, Phillip, we're not all hopeless barbarians.
Seriously, I've use some wooden planes, I can't say I care for the German bench ones, but the sash and moulding planes I've used have been super. (Umm. Yeah, they were old, but not beat up, the gentleman who owned them would likely have supplied a thorough thrashing to anyone abusing his planes.)
I have more reservations about the size of the cutter than the fact that the plane body is wooden. Blum has a novel idea there, however.
Backlash is a function of sloppy machining, it can be fixed.
When my kids were three, they knew better than to take rocks or other similar implements to the dining room table, although I can't speak for other's kids.
I do have one of the modern metal planes from Thomas, it's great. It was a Christmas present from my son.
One of these days I'm going to obtain a couple of wooden spokeshaves, if they work as well as I've read, I'll be a very happy camper.
As to Gillette's recent offering, I had to purchase one recently. Unless you're a Gillette stockholder, I'd advise sticking to an older razor, the difference to me was the cost of the bloody blades -- which was exhorbitant.
:)
Leon
Edited 9/28/2007 7:21 pm ET by lwj2 to correct content.
Edited 9/28/2007 7:29 pm ET by lwj2
Leon, that post you replied to was just a bit of lampooning- in particular the reference to the 3 year old and a rock-it was in fact a reference to a story Adam told us about his own son, and his subsequent attitude to the planing of smooth table tops....
I have not used wooden planes much at all, mainly because I have never had access to good ones.
As for Gillette-I too was shocked by the price of the replacement blades: almost double what the razor,battery and one blade cost! Still, had to try it and it does give a good shave and the first blade lasted a comparatively long time, so I will wait for them to go on special offer-that is what happens here.Philip Marcou
Edited 9/28/2007 10:42 pm by philip
Yeah, figured it was, thought I'd put a html smiley at the end of my post.Calvin & Hobbes had a great cartoon a few years ago, Calvin in front of a coffee table, pounding in nails, followed by his mom shrieking "What are you doing?" and Calvin looking puzzled, as anyone could see he was pounding nails into a coffee table.So far I haven't seen a special offer on the new Gillettes that didn't involve a voice saying "We're all your friends here in this dark room, just bend over the table." The sash and moulding planes I mentioned were late 19th Century ones from Scotland. Kept well-tuned and a pleasure to use.Leon
Will
After reading all of the comments on this thread and one of the other threads under Hand Tools it occurs to me???
Would you buy a bicycle after looking at a picture? I think the first thought might be - hey that looks nice and I like the color but.. I need to ride that thing before I run off and plunk down my money.
I don't mean to rain on your picnic but the planes I like the most are the ones that "feel good to me" and they cut the way I like--not the ones that look good in a magazine.
My favorite plane might not feel good in your hands. I have learned about this as a rifle builder more than anywhere else. I see guys buy an expensive kentucky rifle without shooting it or taking it apart to see - how well is this really made.
Before you buy the plane, find one somewhere and work with it a little.
I agree with you however I live in Chicago. It is a horrible place to find tools. Yes you can find a lot of places that sell tools BUT just trying to ask about opening the box to look at it and they want to call the Cops on ya'! If you want to try it out they call the local nut house.EDIT: I saw the comment.. you can get a Lee Valley ..I received their 2007/2008 catalog last week and I have not opened it yet. I guess I should! I hate ordering from them. I see all sorts of things I like and I go broke.In fact last month I was looking at their gift section on the web and I ended up getting over $400.00 of 'gadgets' and 'things' for the grandchildren as stocking stuffers.
Edited 9/27/2007 7:02 pm by WillGeorge
I like the Lee Valley planes myself have several but my favorite is the low angle block plane with the attached wood handles a great plane.
Dang, I always thought Chicago was the place to get tooled up....Philip Marcou
Will
I don't know much about Chicago but.. I have 2 friends that are really good woodworkers(mostly carving stuff) that made the trip out to Chicago to visit the Violin Making School. They heard that David Bromberg(fairly famous guitar player) stopped playing on the circuit to go to the school and learn how to make violins/fiddles after a visit. My friends were very very impressed and talk about it all the time.
Since you're in the "windy city" maybe that's something you could investigate and go over and take a tour. Just a thought.
Dan
ps: wish I could go instead of working.
Violin Making School.. Chicago.I know about it but I have never been there. I'm not sure why but I'd bet because I'd be WAY outclassed!.... really good woodworkers(mostly carving stuff)..
Carving is a skill I wish I had. I'm pretty lucky because I can do almost anything with my hands except make money AND CARVE! I have carved a few things that I thought turned out nice (others said so too). What I carve has to be while sitting someplace and just start and see what comes out. Sort of like I do my woodworking projects.I cannot carve anything from a picture or for that matter draw. Hell, I even get 'stick' men wrong! Which is strange because my Mother was like me (or me like her). She could do anything with her hands. From cooking, knocking' my head when I was a kid and got out of line, woodworking, knitting and sewing of all types. She even painted in oils and water colors. I never got the artist part! Geeee...
I am also in the market for a finish smoothing planes and have been shopping around.
I've seen the comment "at these reasonable prices..."
Hunh? For $200 you can get a Lee Valley or ECE Primus Improved smoother or a Knight Toolworks. All proven designs that have been reviewed favorably. And all of which do not require a propietary jig to hone/sharpen.
Then there are Eastern style smoothers that are much less.
Are they pretty? Sure. Do I want to spend $200 to be a guinea pig? No way!
My 2 cents worth.
With due respect, that seems to be a harsh judgement considering you have not used the plane. Have you considered the possibility that after a trial you might want to modify or reverse your opinion?
Earlier I tried to make the point, albeit in a light hearted manner, that it would be good if we could hear from someone who has used one of these. Or failing that, something from someone who makes wooden planes....
I can't help noting that the most negative and even destructive "observations" come from those who literally don't know what they talk of: I don't necessarily include you.
Elsewhere it has been noted that there is along waiting period to get one of those tried and proven wooden planes, so it seems to me Blum has done some thinking in addition to just churning out some attractive planes-how come he can't be given a break for this?Philip Marcou
I wasn't against new design. I was just saying that $200 is a lot to spend to try out something that may, or may not, prove itself to be a good innovation. Replaceable, short, blades are nothing new. Stanley has had them; and the Swiss plane maker Rali has used them. Neither has had glowing reviews.For some of us hobbyists, a $200 hand plane is a big ticket item. Whether it works or not, I'm going to trust something that has been tried and tested and proven its worth. I would love to hear some first hand accounts, too.
Hi Will,
Am I missing something or does this thing look prone to chatter when the mouth is closed up a bit? Looks to me like one screw pushes on the back of the "frog" thing which pivots on a pin, giving three points of support. What happens if one corner of the blade hits a spot of narly grain and the other is not? Maybe I'm missing something though.
What supports the frog? If I'm right, and its a pin and a screw, it could be a decent scraper, but I'm sceptical it has any advantages as a plane. I must be missing something.
Ever looked at "Patented Transition and Metalic Planes of America" vol 1 and 2? I think it's pretty unlikely there are any new ways to shave wood, and the ones we are all familier are the ones that actually work. I don't know by who, but I bet this is an old design by someone.
I was missing something. There are two mouth adjusting screws, but still, not much supporting that frog.Steve
"I don't know by who, but I bet this is an old design by someone."
That is precisely what I have hinted at, and would like to know.
Even if it is an "old design", the question is "has it been improved or modified?"Philip Marcou
Well I'd love to Charles, but I confess I really don't know what a meme is so I don't fully understand the bet. I've been trying to figure it out by context for months. I know its got to be from some book that has been absorbed by the same generation of British Fabian socialist intelligentsia as Vanessa Redgrave and Roger Waters.
My guess it's from a book that says: "Americans, be less American! Stop inventing things like the iPod and microchips and cancer treatments right this instant! Be more mediocre like us! Stop being individuals! Capitalism is bad! Economic competition is bad! Bad! Bad! Bad!"
Ed-"...I confess I really don't know what a meme is..."Have someone show you how to do a Google search. Or read Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. It's really not as obscure a term as you pretend."My guess it's from a book that says: "Americans, be less American! Stop inventing things like the iPod and microchips and cancer treatments right this instant! Be more mediocre like us! Stop being individuals! Capitalism is bad! Economic competition is bad! Bad! Bad! Bad!"
I thought you were interested in writing. That example is just childish drivel. Surely you can do better.
I am writing, Donald. Geez, I can't believe that you remembered that. I am submitting a novel to St. Martins Minotaur by Dec 1 - got my fingers crossed that they will like it.The interest level would have to be a lot higher to make a better effort in giving a voice to British socialism. I know I got the "fabian" part out of date by about 50 years, too. Battery leads clipped to my earlobes might help,....Take care, Ed
Ed-"I am submitting a novel to St. Martins Minotaur by Dec 1 - got my fingers crossed that they will like it."Good for you. I'll look forward to reading it. Is the hero a rotary-wing pilot?Don
Nah, crime fiction. I gave up on trying to write about the Navy. I'm not a right wing weenie any more, either. Got enough distance on my military retirement, now, to see that I was wrong about a great number of things,....
I am submitting a novel to St. Martins Minotaur by Dec 1 - got my fingers crossed that they will like it.
Best of luck, Ed, I'll keep my fingers crossed and look forward to seeing it in stores.Leon
Thanks, Leon
Charles, Ed and Lataxe,
I am always available for being given positive strokes, of the verbal variety... Or being a target for (verbal) shots. Just don't pee your pants waiting in line, and lets not start sucking each others' ##### just yet.
Ray
PS It's called a "cheeseburger royale", and they put mayonnaise on their fries.
Love that movie. Bacon is good; pork chops are good.
"Americans, be less American! ???
DAMN.. What we do best! Brits are OK except for the food!
Yeah, except for warm beer.
Tain't right.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
There are many things about Americans that I like and love. Many, many things. Many, many, many things.
But that coca-cola with the taste taken out that you call beer is not one; nor is that salty pap y'all gobble-on to my taste - the stuff from that big GM factory, that you churn-and-pat into the shapes of many real foodstuffs.
So, I realise that it will be a shock to your shrivelled taste buds when you come to Blighty and are given real ale and food that was actually alive once. Nevetheless, I hereby invite you and Will to a Special Party in the back garden next-the-shed. The ladywife will be cooking the delicious viands, many grown in her allotment; and beer from the many local micro-brewers will be made available.
I have got the heart massager ready for when you are so shocked by the reawakening of your taste buds that you go all pale and trembley.
Lataxe, of The Campaign for Real Stuff of Every Kind.
Lataxe,Try Sam Adams or a Sierra Nevada. The former is named after a Bostonian who particularly pi$$ed off Lord North- so it may be a good fit for you.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Lataxe,
If your tasty viands had more appetising names than toad-in-the-hole, bubble and squeak, or bangers and mash, perhaps British haute cuisine might have a wider appreciation...Still, Guinness, Bass, nor Samuel Smith (love that Taddy Porter) need no toads or bangers to pull a big wagon like those silly hosses that haul the swill that passes for beer in St Louis, US of A.
Ray, whose affinity to Old Peculiar, grows greater everyday-opposites attract
Edited 9/30/2007 11:40 pm ET by joinerswork
Hagis has a rather exotic name but it doesn't seem to help much.
Jack
Edited 10/1/2007 12:53 am ET by JLMCDANIEL
Jack,
Yeah, but "Gruel-in -a-paunch" won't win any converts either.
Ray
Lataxe,
Don't suppose you like hockey either? The NHL is playing some games over there. Otta check it out!
Also, did you get a chance to see our football when they were o'r there?
As to the invite, I would be most honored to dine with Will, you and yours. I wll however need to bring along a goodly supply of ice. Will we get a chance to play with your Mad Cows?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Charles,
Please include pictures of a Ray being "stroked off" (whatever that is) when you post them ones of you and Adam doing wonky stuff together in your room. I am anxious to learn your techniques, Master that you must be! I bet you wear one o' them little peaked hats of shiny stuff with a chain on the front.
Of course, I do have a fine moustachio myself.
Lataxe, probably too old for that sort of thang.
Nice looking, but it looks like a nightmare to hone and maintain the blade.
I wouldn't buy this for use, maybe you feel the need to have it as a collection item.
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