thinking about upgrading bench chisels ? any recommendations?
hoosierchris
| Posted in Hand Tools on
My tax refund money is burning a hole in my pocket !!! I wanted to know what chisels you guys have/love. I have mostly craftsman chisels and a few two cherries bench chisels. I am thinking about lie-nielsen, but am open to suggestions.
Please and thank-you !!!
Replies
The Two Cherries you have are just fine. I'd round out a set of those and move on down the road.
thanks....I got the last two at my local hardware store....the store was clearancing (sp) their 2 cherry stuff at 40% off....I got the equivalent of a 3/4" and 1". they are less bulky than the craftsman and work easier.
Look at the Narex brand. Highland woodworking sells them. For the price of one lie-nielsen you can get a whole set of Narex and they are good chisels, best value rated by FWW. Only draw back is they come in metric widths.
Chris:
Recommendations depend on what you want to use the chisels for. I have a boxed set of the Narex from Highland Woodworking. Their longer length and type of steel make them nice for paring and that's what I use them for. I also have the LN bevel edge chisel set plus a couple of their mortise chisels. Their size and A2 steel makes them great for mallet work. LN now has the chisels in O1 steel, which many see as better for paring. LN is also coming out with new chisels based on the size of the Stanley 720 series. Basically the same as the current chisels, but with longer blades making them more suitable for paring.
Much of what makes one chisel better than another goes beyond the type of steel it is made of or if it is a socket chisel vs. a tang. The subjective part is how balanced the chisel feels to you and how well you can control it. Sure, it is possible to rehandle any chisel, but I'd rather buy a set that "feels right" to start with. If possible, get your hands on a few different brands to get a feel for them before shelling out a lot of cash.
gdblake
Hi Chris
Firstly, what type of work do you plan for the chisels? Are you wanting general purpose, do-it-all bench chisels? Do you want something that is extra-heavy duty, such as firmer/framing chisels? Would you prefer a lighterparing chisel for trimming joints? Or do you have your cap set on detail chisels for dovetails?
These differences are why recommendations will vary so. It is easy enough to say that yiou will get the biggest bang-for-buck from a Japanse bench chisel (they are indeed excellent from the cheapest upward), but you do have to treat them right as the steel is harder and more brittle than, say, an Irwin.
The LN chisels are excellent all-rounders in that they can be pounded upon and still have the ability for delicate work, such as dovetails.
I have Blue Spruce dedicated to dovetails. They are not at their best for other work.
From reputation I would avoid the Two Cherries, unless you can get the unpolished versions, as the polished ones that are more common have rounded backs. A better chisel (again from reputation) are those made by Ashley Iles.
Anyway, what are you looking for?
Regards from Perth
Derek
Chisels seem to be the last good tool you can find at flea markets. My entire set is second hand Buck Bro. Greenlee, Stanley, Miller Falls, old Craftsman, etc. I bet I have fifty now and never have paid more than $5 each which allows modifications if needed, want a different angle, grind it, need a skew, go for it, new handles, hit the lathe, then just look for another at the closest garage sale. Even new ones need attention to the backs so you are not out any extra work.
I seem to be less lucky with planes and saws though….
funny you should say that... I manage a pawn shop end up with all kinds/ sizes of chisels. That's how I got the craftsman set !!! I have a selection of small stanley chisels that I put together.
So far the best tool that came my way is a lie nielsen block plane with the adjustable mouth. The guy wanted to sell it and I gave him what he wanted ($100) he was glad it was going to a good home !!!
thanks again
chris
Ashley Isles. Joel at Tools for Working Wood is selling them. I bought them last year. Beautiful. The Mk 2 set. Scary sharp, bubinga handles, brass ferules. top quality.
Mike
I'll also recommend the AI chisels from Joel. I bought the round back dovetailing set (and a couple others) and am very pleased with them for fine work. The round backs and overall shape are very pleasing to my hands (average to largish, i'm 6'0"). These are closer to a paring set for fine work; I have a set of old marples blue chips for the heavy pounding. The set include smallish skew chisels which are not perfectly matched in shape, but are perfectly functional.
Good luck!
I have blue steel bench chisels from the Japan woodworker. I like the edge they take and the feel of the handles.
Troy
what chisels ?
Janpanese chislels. They have the finest metal tech. and have been made for generations of tool makers. For acuracy and long lasting sharpness this is the ticket. Think about the best battle sword ever made it was the samuri sword.
Walter in Alaska
You've got a lot of different ways you can go, different costs, different types of chisels and all of them have some merit.
I'd put what you can do in three groups if you have a grinder and belt sander (only the first requires significant time on the sander or grinder):
Cheapest: get some older bench chisels that are not alloy steel (they will hold an edge at low bevel angles well), get to know what you want, and modify the chisels by grinding the sides down to a very delicate shape.
Next cheapest: buy moderately priced delicate chisels like the iles chisels. I have a set of iles chisels, one of the less delicate handle types - the boxwood octagonals - but the business end of them is still nicely cut. They hold an edge fine, but no better than vintage chisels in my experience. That's not a problem, they're easy to sharpen, too.
I guess group 3a would be the lie nielsen chisels, they are really excellent, but you pay for the preparation and finish. If you're going to pare, I'd get them in O1, but I haven't used any of their O1 chisels yet. It only really makes sense to spend big $$ on the O1 versions if they are a lot harder than vintage chisels or if you are not comfortable that you could prep a vintage chisel in need of a little attention to the same level. If you feel you can, then maybe the LN decision doesn't make as much sense if you have needs elsewhere.
Group 3b - specialized japanese chisels. Call a japanese tool dealer - either in japan, or one in the US, and tell them what you want to do. Get a couple of dovetail chisels with as delicate of sides as possible (lee valley's japanese dovetail chisels - the less expensive set) have very nice and very delicate sides. They're very appropriate as dovetail chisels (you can mallet them, but no prying), not appropriate as full service "beat-them-hard" bench chisels. Along with that, get a couple of long parers with delicate sides. maybe a total of five chisels. That would probably cost you about as much as the total LN set, but in my estimation, white steel delicate japanese chisels are are about as nice a feel as a chisel can be unless you spend huge dollars to get specialty steels and wrought iron backs (the benefit to them being more that they are very easy to sharpen for their edge holding abilities more than anything else, but they are lined out for this question by the 90/10 rule - they are in the $100-$300 per chisel range in general.
A word about the two cherries - my only knock on them is the blunt sides and if you don't like the handles, you can group that in, but i didn't mind them so much when they weren't my only set. The steel in them is very tough - very tough, a lot less susceptible to ham handedness than the iles chisels. If you don't mind the handles, eventually, you could modify those TC chisels to make the sides more delicate and experiment to find out what they'll tolerate as bevel angles (you never know when steel gets away from the more "plain" steels to the alloy steels). When you get the TCs on sale, they are very good chisels for the price, just in need of your input on shaping them to what you want them to be.
Chris,
I have been away from Knots for a while. I stopped in tonight and your message caught my eye. When I read it, I guessed that it would generate a large number of responses, most of which would be different. This would leave you far more confused than you were when you asked the question.
Then I read all of the answers. I know many of the folks who responded. They are all fine woodworkers, and are quite knowledgeable.
But it seems that they weren't of much help to you. Let me try to be helpful to you.
Based on where you seem to be in your knowledge of chisels, I would say that it really doesn't make much difference which chisels you buy. What you should do is to try a number of different chisels and see if you can tell any difference between them. If you can't, then it doesn't make any difference which ones you get.
If I were to make a recommendation on new ones, it would be the cheap, blue handled IRWINs. They used to be Marples. They are used in many of the woodworking schools here in the US. The main reason is that, while they work well, they are less easily stolen because of their bright blue handles. I have used them often. I think they don't stay as sharp as the chisels I now have, but so what. All that means is that you have to hone them a little more often than "great" chisels. Given your inexperience with chisels, this will be a good thing.
I don't recommend trying to get "good" chisels on EBay or at flea markets. You don't know what "good" chisels are, and you will waste a LOT OF TIME and money. You'd be better off just getting a set of Irwins to start.
I started off with a set of Craftsman chisels from Sears. They worked fine for me, given the state of my skills at the time. I learned to sharpen and to use them. Later I got a set of Hirsch, which are another name under which Two Cherries are sold. You have heard about the polished Two Cherries brand, and the problems with the dubbing of the edges that the polishing causes. I found that the Hirsch worked better for me than the Craftsman, and I used them for years. I flattened th backs, and got rid of the dubbing. It took some work, but what the heck. I learned a lot.
Then my part time job at Woodcraft allowed me to buy a set off Lie Nielsens at a good discount. They worked better for me than the Hirsch. I have tried other many brands: Pfeil, Wood River, lots of antique chisels, etc.
My conclusion is that I can make almost any chisels do what I want them to do. Some are harder to make work well than others, but so what. It just isn't all that important. My definition of a great woodworker is one who can make masterpieces using someone else's tools. As you see from the answers to your question, too many woodworkers get caught up in minor differences among tools, and forget about the importance of SKILLS in using the tools.
Don't worry about the chisels. Get any set that is handy and that you can afford. Get the Irwins. practice, practice and practice. Make dovetails. Try to chop some mortises. Try paring joint work. When you make dovetails, be like Rob Cosman, and try to make them right the first time, so that they fit without the need for paring. After a while, and after getting experience with different chisels, you will figure out what the next set of chisels is that you want.
I wouldn't recommend buying Lie Nielsens or other expensive chisels until you know you can grind them without burning them.
Don't worry so much about tools. Have fun doing a lot of woodwork with whatever tools are handy. Work on your skills, and have fun while doing that. If you worry too much about tools, you just don't have as much fun. I find that the best woodworkers I know don't worry too much about tools. It is mostly older hobbiest guys with too much money are the ones who worry about which tools to buy.
Hope this is of some use to you. I hope it causes you to think, and to learn to think for yourself rather than to ask what tools others buy.
Mel
I bought a set of the Narex chisels before Highland began to import them. I bought them as a beater set. After a little honing I put them to work. Wow. They held an edge as well as the "nice one" I already had. Since got them I have tried to find a reason to demote them to second rate status.. after all the handles are butt ugly. If you don't need to rub your well shaped cherry handles to reach a happy state, the Narex chisel is a steal that you won't regret. If you don't like them, grind them down to skew chisels for cleaning out dovetails.
Good Luck
dan
I bought a set of the Narex chisels before Highland began to import them. I bought them as a beater set. After a little honing I put them to work. Wow. They held an edge as well as the "nice one" I already had. Since I got them I have tried to find a reason to demote them to second rate status.. after all the handles are butt ugly. If you don't need to rub your well shaped cherry handles to reach a happy state, the Narex chisel is a steal that you won't regret. If you don't like them, grind them down to skew chisels for cleaning out dovetails.
Good Luck
dan
Chris,
Since you didn't mention budget, check out Blue Spruce, in addition to being eye candy, they are great at holding edges. Dave Jeske does a great job, will put on any handle you want and has expanded his line to include dovetail, paring, skew, fishtail and bench chisels...the bench chisel handles are made of wood but then infused with some type of plastic which makes them extremely durable. I bought one of his mallets with the plastic infusion and despite repeated use for the past year, still looks brand new.
I'm assuming from your handle that you live in Indiana. Where is your pawn shop? I recently had a Lie Nielsen bronze #2 bench plane with cocobola handles stolen from the mailbox from which the UPS hung it cause he didn't want to try to get up my snow covered driveway. I can't imagine the SOB who stole it has any use for it, probably doesn't even know what it's for. I figure it will either end up in apawn shop or on line to sell. Haven't seen it on ebay or craig's list.
Neil
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