Replies

1. 
   bones | Oct 16, 2007 05:04pm | #1

   I have the Forrest WWI & WWII and like them both.  Keep in mind a stock splitter will not work, due to the thickness of the blade!  I replaced my stock splitter/gaurd with the microjig for thin kerf so that was not an issue for me.  Good luck on the choice. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
2. 
   mudman | Oct 16, 2007 06:37pm | #2

   Forrest and Freud. In that order.

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

3. 
   frenchy | Oct 16, 2007 07:22pm | #3

   wiskytango.

     Thin kerf isn't everything you'd think it should be.. unless you use blade stiffeners the blade can easily wander on thicker stock and if you do use stiffeners you limit the depth of cut..

     I used a thin kerf blade in my saw and then needed to run the cut over the jointer to straighten it out.. in the end I turned more wood into sawdust than if I'd used my regular kerf blade from the start.. I now have three thin kerf blades to use on my Compound sliding mitre saw. 

1. 
   Knotscott | Oct 16, 2007 09:57pm | #4

   Frenchy, my experiences with TK's has been terrific...I've used 20+ high quality TK's and have never had a flutter, deflection, wander, vibration, or any issue to speak of with a good TK blade, even without the help of a stiffener.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but it hasn't for me in many, many opportunities in a variety of hardwoods up to full blade height.  The quality of the blade is a very important factor though, and so is the saw's inherent runout...a TK blade will amplify excessive arbor runout.  I've had good results from several of Freud's upper Industrial line, Forrest, Infinity, Leitz, PC Razor, Ridgid Titanium, and DW Series 40...none have strayed.   The TK's have always fed easier than it's full kerf counterpart, and cut quality has always been comparable.  I've switched my blade inventory to nearly entirely TK's now.  The modern alloys are very good.

   If I were buying one good all around TK blade today and were concerned about my saw's power, I think I'd go with the 30 tooth WWII.  The low tooth count helps it breeze through fairly thick wood with little strain to the saw, and it still crosscuts just about as cleanly as my 40T version.  If the cost of the Forrest is prohibitive, take a look at the Infinity Combomax Lite (~$60), or Freud LU86R010 or the Tenryu RS25540 mid-kerf for ~ $30-$35.   If you tend to use thinner stock or want a cleaner cut, I'd go with the Freud LU88R010 for ~ $40-$45.  If you rip alot of thick stock, go with a good 24T TK like a Freud LU87r010 or DW7124PT for bulk ripping... ~ $30-$35.

    

    

    

   Edited 10/16/2007 3:02 pm ET by Knotscott

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 16, 2007 11:11pm | #5

   Knotscott,

    I have two of those you mentioned, and depending on tooth count I've had them wander off true by slightly more than a 16th.  It's blade deflection pure and simple..  I can put a dial indicator on my blade  and stay within .002 at the root of the tooth.. The Forest was resharpened right after I got it thinking that was the issue (by Forest) To my naked eye there certainly didn't appear to be anything wrong with them.. My Frued Was resharpened locally following my second attempt..

    Since my saw is a 12 inch saw (not a typical 10 inch) I can use them on the slider and they aren't going completely to waste.

      I've stopped using my table saw to saw the larger timbers at all..  It's faster and more accurite to use the 16 inch Mikita circular saw and a straight edge, that at least will will clean up quickly with a hand held planner. 

    Power isn't the issue at all.. 

    Now perhaps making little cuts in typical small pieces that many hobbiests do might not cause the blade to wander as much as it does I wouldn't know.. All I can say is the thin kerf blades Ive purchased have never worked well for me.. except on the slider..

1. 
   ChuckN | Oct 17, 2007 12:24am | #6

   It's been so long since I've really looked any more that I no longer know what is considered "thin kerf" now-a-days.

   And, really, what is the advantage?

   I have a "thin kerf" Freud blade.  It cut's a kerf I believe is 3/32".  As opposed to the 1/8" the blade my Ridgid saw came with.  So I'm saving 1/32" of an inch with each cut.  Big deal.

   What I do like to used it for is planing.  I rough cut with the stock blade to with in a 1/8" then plane both sides down using the Freud blade.  I very seldom need to use a hand plane to clean up the edges. 

    

   ChuckN and I have nothing of value to add to this discussion.

1. 
   Knotscott | Oct 17, 2007 04:37am | #8

   "I have a "thin kerf" Freud blade. It cut's a kerf I believe is 3/32". As opposed to the 1/8" the blade my Ridgid saw came with. So I'm saving 1/32" of an inch with each cut. Big deal."For many of us the advantage of a TK isn't in lumber savings...it'd take alot of passes to notice any savings. 3/32" is 25% thinner than 1/8", which translates to a similar percent difference in strain on the motor.

2. 
   Knotscott | Oct 17, 2007 04:32am | #7

   I suspect the issue is the span of the 12" TKs vs a 10"....if the kerf is the same width, the 12" would be more prone to flexing.

3. 
   vincentedwards | Oct 19, 2007 08:45pm | #22

   Wow, it really sounds like something is up with your tablesaw. Whether it be arbor runout, fence to blade parallelism, or something less obvious... it's strange that several of us have had such good results with blades that have given you that much trouble. Is the problem entirely solved when you use a full kerf blade?I can rip a piece of 8/4 maple on my unisaw with a ridge cabide ts2000 tk blade, then lay it on the jointer table and it's perfect. And if I do choose to joint the edge, i typically remove material quite evenly from the whole surface (suggesting very little deflection) If I make repeated thin rips from the same board, i do have to joint every three boards or so to keep the cuts nice and straight... once the side of the board that is up against the fence isn't dead flat then I start to get problems... but otherwise the thin kerf blade seems to be a top performer. any ideas?

2. 
   vincentedwards | Oct 19, 2007 08:37pm | #21

   I noticed that you didn't mention the ridge carbide ts2000 blade.
   Back around father's day you helped me in my search for a blade, and that was one of your top choices. I have one and really love it. It's the thin-kerf version. I've cut 8/4 hard maple and lots of other difficult woods with great results.Is there any reason why you left this blade off your list this time around? Did you have a bad experience?vincent

1. 
   Knotscott | Oct 19, 2007 11:33pm | #24

   "Is there any reason why you left this blade off your list this time around? Did you have a bad experience?"Hi Vincent - The reason is.....an early senior moment! ;-) My opinion of the TS2000 is about identical to yours. It's just a great blade. It's every bit the equal of the WWII... and arguably then some, has huge teeth, is American made, comes in two kerf widths, and is sold by really good dealers like Holbren. (you can get 10% off if you're a member of SMC, WN, or BT3central)

1. 
   vincentedwards | Oct 20, 2007 12:51am | #25

   Thanks for the reassurance.I've had those moments too... and I'm only 26vincent

2. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 17, 2007 02:34pm | #11

   Hmmm. I've used a Forrest WWII for years and I don't even OWN blade stiffeners. And, since I started using the WWII, I keep my jointer under a cover in the corner of the shop. No need for it, since stock comes off the saw ready to glue. At least I thought so -- maybe I'll have to go back and take all that stuff apart just to be sure there's no problems with the joints! ;-)

   Seriously, I have what many would consider an underpowered saw (just 1.5 hp) and I take my cuts slow & easy. Works for me.

   The only time I have any trouble with blade wandering is when I'm cutting just a bit (say, 1/4") off thick stock with wierd grain that wants to push the blade away from the fence. Doesn't happen that often, though.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

   PS: Just re-read your post. 12" in yours vs. 10" in mine. I'd bet that's the difference.

   Edited 10/17/2007 7:37 am ET by MikeHennessy

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 17, 2007 04:57pm | #12

   mike,

   I think you also gave a reason why yours doesn't wander, slow and easy. I wish I had the time but I have a house that needs building.. Mine is both a 12 inch and I have 5 hp so I can shove wood thru pretty fast and the damn saw should keep up with me or I'll figure out the reason why..

      I'm one of those who don't worship a table saw.. I don't even like it. I think it's a highly over rated piece of equipment that does only one thing naturally, rip wood..Regular kerf blades have no problem sawing nice and straight, glue up ready as some have said. 

    I suspect that you and I also have a differant opinion of what is thick wood.. To me thick wood is anything up to 8 inches thick (I can flip it over and cut it in half since my blade will cut slightly more than 4 inches)..

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 17, 2007 05:43pm | #13

   "To me thick wood is anything up to 8 inches thick "

   Hey, I thought that's what chain saws are for! ;-)

   My TS shivers at the thought of mere 2" hardwood stock.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 17, 2007 09:01pm | #16

   Mike,

       I regularly work with timbers up to 12 inches. My best friend for those is my circular saw. Ummm,   did I mention it's a 16 & 5/16ths inch  blade?

    I really am like a man without a country here.. In that My whole house is hardwoods and there is barely any 2x4's anyplace in it.. So I'm not really at home over at breaktime,, but because of the size of the wood I work with I'm not really at home over here..

    Sigh!

2. 
   vincentedwards | Oct 19, 2007 08:54pm | #23

   Sounds like you could use one of these. http://bloomington.craigslist.org/tls/432236861.htmlAmerican made heavy metal. 3 phase, 16" blade... I think you could learn to appreciate the TS again. (in earnest, i do agree that it's an over-rated tool... but i would be hard pressed to work without one)

2. 
   Samson | Oct 17, 2007 10:16pm | #18

   And, since I started using the WWII, I keep my jointer under a cover in the corner of the shop. No need for it, since stock comes off the saw ready to glue.

   BINGO!  I like the 30T for this, and if there are any noticeable blade marks - a block or smoothing plane takes care of them in a pass or two that doesn't effect the edge geometry.

   FWIW, I often match plane edges too, but if I'm doing long joints or am in a hurry, the TS with a Forrest makes for glue line rips that are as good as my jointer.  Hell, better actually, as I often found my jointer could make problems of various sorts.

4. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Oct 17, 2007 05:55am | #9

   WT, I have my old sears 1 1/2 hp all cast contractors saw that I use almost only TK blades. not to save wood but because there is a real savings in load on the saw making a thinner cut, thus better performance in blade speed. For quality cuts in hardwoods a Forrest  tk wwll as a combination blade and a Freud  24 tooth tk rip blade. They work beautifully. I have ripped 3 1/4 cherry mill stock  to size with great results. For construction lumber 1 1/2" I use a mix of old sears or delta blades.

   On my newly rebuilt Delta Unisaw I use the same brands and types only full kerf. The 3 hp doesn't't care. Big dadoes wind up here also.

   What saw do you use? It may make a difference and you will get better answers. Paddy 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/16/2007 10:57 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT

1. 
   wiskytango | Oct 17, 2007 06:22am | #10

   Paddydahat
   I have a Delta Hybrid. I am mostly concerned about what is the best way to cut our drawer fronts from continuous board See "cutting out drawer fronts." in the general discussion. It seemed like lots of people where saying thin kirf so i thought i would ask about those.. Thanks for the advice

5. 
   forestgirl | Oct 17, 2007 05:45pm | #14

   What, specifically, are you thinking about using a thin kerf blade for?  Are you wanting a thin kerf combo blade, or just a rip blade?  IMHO, thin kerf is great and appropriate for ripping operations, espcially with thicker wood on an underpowered (read: contractor) saw.  Personally, I don't see a need for one in a crosscut blade, and marginal in a combo blade.  As an owner of a 1.5HP contractor saw, I'd rather swap out to the thin kerf rip blade when ripping, say, 1"+ hard maple or 1.5"+ oak, etc., than use a think kerf combo blade.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   wiskytango | Oct 17, 2007 08:44pm | #15

   Forestgirl
   I was asking becasue of this other post i had.
   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=fw-knots&msg=38079.1any ideas?

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Oct 17, 2007 09:17pm | #17

   Whiskeytango, most of the responders in the other thread talked about ripping the top and bottom strips, cutting the drawer faces from the positions in the remaining piece and then gluing the face pieces back together. It will make little or no difference whether you use a TK or a regular kerf blade.Howie.........

6. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 19, 2007 07:16pm | #19

   think kerf table saw blade?
   NO but on a THIN Kerf blade I do..

   I use one very often and not sure why!
   I use FREND blades which I like and went back to the standard kerf.. Same brand.

   I am much happier with them. Enough said.

7. 
   vincentedwards | Oct 19, 2007 08:32pm | #20

   I have a ridge carbide TS200 TK which I bought from holben. It has been performing like a champ. Very smooth cross cuts and rips. I am entirely satisfied with it. I believe they sell for 89.95

   Perhaps the best feature are the very large carbide teeth which allow for more sharpening than the competition.

   Check out Forrest WWII, Tenryu Gold metal and Leitz as well. You can't go wrong with any of them, so see what appeals to you most and give it a shot.