The latest tools and shops issue of FWW has an article near the back which lists a set of basic handtoolswith which one may do good work. Just so, but I have come to question this old wifey tale that is oft trotted out, including in this article:
“And you’ll make very little noise and fine dust [with handtools]………….”
Recent extensive planing of iroko with that divvil-instrument a BU plane of high cutting angle (all natterjacks, let out your gasp of horror now) has seen the unseasonal return of hay-fever-like symptoms to my person. There has been much sneezing, blocked sinus, dull headache and so forth.
Now, the iroko planks were resawn on a BS and then went through the planer/thickneser. Apart from one or two planks, the handplanes were only used for final smoothing of the planks, to get rid of tear out from the P/T. Spokeshaves were used to fare and roundover edges of the bandsawn parts made from the planks (for 3 Adirondack chairs).
I’d assumed the dust from the BS was responsible for my mild hay fever symptoms. However, I spent a whole week (on and off) using only the planes and spokeshave to do that final faring etc.. My symptoms were both immediate and somewhat worse when I planed!
There is not really any obvious (visible) dust billowing up from planing, even at a high angle when the shavings are thin, brittle concertinas rather than neat curly shavings. But the planing made me immediately sneeze and within minutes the sinus was gooed up. This didn’t happen when using the BS or P/T (the symptoms only came on mildly in the evening).
I think that the high angle planing in particular is generating some sort of ultrafine dust. No doubt the bandsaw does too – but this seems to get sucked into the dust extracator. There is no dust extractor on them planes, of course.
Am I imagining this, or does a high angle plane tend to generate very fine dust as well as the concertina shavings? The plane mouth certainly seems to acquire some sort of build-up that consists of dust, when you poke it out.
Lataxe
Replies
Lataxe,
As a photographer yourself, you can find the answer to your query about whether or not hand tools generate fine dust by performing a simple experiment in backlighting.
Mount a single-bulb light in a reflector behind the hand tool and plank in question and shut off all the other lights in your shed. Take a run of the plane down the lumber and then look into the light (a dark background around the light helps). Chances are good you'll see dust motes rising in the air right where you swooshed that razor-sharp plane. I have no doubt that shearing the fibers of a piece of wood produces very fine particles that are light enough to become airborne. And, if you're allergic to whatever is in the wood, you'll come down with the sniffles. Western red cedar, redwood and cypress all do it for me...
As to a solution, have you thought of attaching a dust collection hose to the mouth of the handplane? Along with a laser? Just kidding. But in actuality, this is one case where blowing the dust somewhere else and then trying to filter it might work best.
In my shop there is a 20 inch square "box" fan mounted on a center beam in the ceiling. I wire a furnace filter to its surface and let it run nearly all the time I'm in my shop. It strains particles out of the air. Not as well as those "air cleaners" specially designed for the purpose, of course. But a couple hundred dollars cheaper. It moves quite a bit of air through the filter.
What you might consider is placing such a contraption on your bench, right behind where you're planing away. The fan would draw the dusty air from the board and plane into itself, and the particles would be stopped by the filter before they reached the fan's blades.
It's not a perfect solution - I think a more general flushing-out of the shop from stem to stern while planing would likely proved the best. But during the winter when one must preserve one's shed heat as much as possible, it's probably about as reasonable a solution as one can come up with quickly.
Another tack would be to outfit oneself with a good particle respirator - into which one would huff germ-laden and humid air until drenched while planing difficult foreign hardwoods. But was this supposed to be fun too?
As a fall hay fever sufferer myself, I've learned that pollen grains cling to one's hair, clothing, skin and eyelashes. I get a strong reaction especially after subjecting myself to fast 30 miler on my velo with the local lads. But I can reduce the trouble quite a bit if I shower immediately after a ride - well, immediately after my first pint anyway. So, getting that dust off you quickly after you've finished a shop session is important as well.
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Hi Mr. L,
I think planes do produce a dust when the blade begins dulling and is more pronounced when set for fine shavings.
As well, though your symptoms are akin to dust-borne sources, just skin contact with a wood that produces allergic symptoms is enough to trigger or perpetuate what has begun from other tools. So too there is still dust being kicked about from the power tools that definitely create dust.
Take care, Mike
Mike,
I don't seem to get any sort of dermititus-like symptoms from the iroko - either from handling the planks or from the normal visible dust or shavings. I only get sneeze, cough, stuff-up, headache.
When I hand plane, only the shavings are visible. The window opposite faces west and the sun often lights up dust motes; but there are no obvious ones coming off the planing. Yet the sneezes and throat-catches start almost immediately.
The blurb I have read here and there concerning iroko and its reputation for attacking humans does seem to imply that the visible dust is relatively harmless, unless one gets the skin reactions. So my suspicion (no evidence) is that it's very fine stuff somehow breezing off the shavings when they're cut. The blades are sharp but it seems to be the high angle that causes iroko shavings in particular to break up into flakes. I'm thinking that flaking is also making superfine dust.
Perhaps an experiment? (All the rage just lately). I'll try planing with a 45 degree plane with the grain, which will produce normal curly shavings (albeit with tear out) and see if it causes sneezes too.
Z,
I'll try your backlight test, although the sunlight through the window shows up nothing significant.
The suggestion about the air scrubber is pehaps the most practical solution. I do have one at the end of the shed that is just on a hook so it would be easy to put it on a different hook right over the back of the bench where I plane.
There is the possibility of using a face mask or even the Trend full-face fresh-air one as I have one of each. These are good when using machines such as the belt or drum sander but I don't fancy trying to handplane all morning with one on. As you suggest - sweat-city with the one and the other one would probably fall off my head every 3 swooshes.
Lataxe
Most woodworkers seem to play down the oiliness of iroko c.f. teak, but it does have oil in it. Could you be sensitive to that? There is some research into asthmatic reactions to iroko, though you might need a high-school credit in bafflegab to make sense of it. http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/acaai/aaai/2003/00000091/00000004/art00015
Jim
Lataxe,
For years I suffered from the same symptoms. Finally, I narrowed down what triggered the flare-ups. I am allergic to hard work. Once I stopped that, all has been well.
Try it,
Ray
Sire,
I am sure that Iroko is about to get you by the throat-it is as Joel7 says and you are now sensitised to it. Take care as them pathogens do not need to ride on the backs of dust particles to get you.
You might try just one thing - anoint the inner nostrils with vaseline before going into workshop. Okay, all can pick themselves up off the floor now.... but here is the story:
In a certain factory in now darkest Africa it was noted that several gentlemen were affected by Imbuia. The two other timbers we ran were Muninga (aka PNG Rosewood) and American red oak and these produced no similar problems. The Imbuia caused headaches and flue like problems and the medic had no answer-until one of them discovered the use of this vaseline (and don't ask me how). Try it -there is nowt to lose. I suppose it worked like some sort of filter.
Iroko is noted for toxicty but as usual some folk are more vulnerable than others so I fear that you may have to abstain from it altogether or endure all kinds of gas masks, filters etc which are a pain at the best of times.
Ofcourse the other suspect could be your "focussing on acquisition of tools rather than actual woodworking"- an affliction regularly (mis)diagnosed by the resident Tool Messiah. Obviously this would be Psychological rather than a physical thing hence the lack of understanding.Philip Marcou
could it be that you are breathing heavier due to the fact that you are working harder as apposed to just standing behind a power tool that is attached to a dust collector
Edited 12/14/2008 3:50 pm ET by donbean46
> sinus was gooed up. This didn't happen when using the BS or P/T (the symptoms only came on mildly in the evening).
wooo I thought you were going to jump the fence there and say this did not happen when you used a bevel down plane from the flee market.
roc
who is in emotional turmoil as to whether to leave his beloved 8000 stone and ride with the big dogs or be the fop at the tea party with his beloved sparkly girl friend.
Lataxe,
Seriously, though only for a moment, i had your head ache thing all last xmas season and most of this year. I was working my purple heart then. Smells like dirty feet most of it.
Two changes: 1) Last few months I am working the bubinga exclusively, until I can get back to my walnut & camphor wood project. no headaches last few months.
2) I have all but given up on wine especially the red. I miss it. I am USING chocolate as my drug of choice this season.
Who knows which if either, or in combination, was the culprit. Glad for the break though.
roc
Edited 12/14/2008 4:31 pm by roc
Edited 12/14/2008 4:38 pm by roc
"I am USING chocolate as my drug of choice this season."If you use enough of the chocolate, that may increase the distance between the work and those parts of you that are sensitive. ;-)
A common situation is that we become sensitized to allergens through a certain level of exposure and then are much more sensitive to them after that. Could it be that the power tools generated enough dust to sensitize you to the allergens in the particular wood and then the modest exposure from handling and hand planing the wood was enough to trigger your symptoms?
Jim,
Strangely the teak doesn't bother me at all. I've been working some of that at the same time because the Adirondacks are a mixture of the two timbers (with the iroko geting some stain to match it to the teak). The teak is an oily divvil but the iroko is not anything like as "waxy" and seems to generate a lot of flake and dust. The teak is much less dusty although equally prone to tear out (but in a different pattern).
Don,
Although the planing makes me sweat I have quite a high level of aerobic fitness so I don't seem to get out of breath or anything like it. Nevertheless, as soon as the planing begins there is itchy-noz and a catch in the throat. I have also managed to give myself a slight tennis elbow. :-)
Roc,
Camphor wood! Send the leavings over here immediately!! (Leavings are defined as no less than 10 6ft X 6in planks of 1 or more inch thickness).
Joel,
I've TSed and BSed some iroko in the last couple of days with no ill effects apart form the evening muzzy head, so there does seem to be some kind of "special dust" coming off of the handplaning. I have mild hayfever symptoms with one or three African hardwoods (sapele and meranti as well as iroko). Only this handplaning seems to give me the swift bad snoozles.
****Tomorrow I plane some with an ordinary plane angle to see what happens.
Lataxe, experimenting on hisself and hoping a Mr Hyde does not come out.
Aw David, the answer is obvious, you just need a more expensive plane...maybe a 5,000 euro piece of work...
In the US, in the drug store (chemist) one can purchase cromalyn sodium as a nasal spray without a prescription...a couple sprays up each nostril prior to encountering the offensive wood may prevent or at least dampen the reaction..however I don't know if this sort of thing is available in GB...you may have to go to the doctor to get it.
Another thought would be to wear a particle mask while planing the stuff.
Finally, you may want to try planing it in another location other than your shop to see if you get the same reaction.
Neil, who knows more medicine than woodworking (for which his patients are greatful, at least most of them.)
Neil,
I have a sniffer-spray thang for turning off the hayfever symptoms - I gets it in February or March when the birch pollen starts up. However, that seems like it will just cure symptoms not cause.
Still, my reactions to iroko are not that bad; nowhere near as bad as days when the wind blows from the north east and Norway dumps 20 million tons of birch pollen over Blighty. Perhaps a sniff of the magic spray followed by a session with the vaseline pot.....?
Meanwhile I believe that Mr Marcou ought to be looking into designing a dust and shavings extractor for his beauties. The extractor must be unobtrusive, lightweight (yet made of brass, steel and rosewood) and send the shaving to the fifth dimension so I wont have to empty the collector. Oh and it must add nothing to the cost of the plane.
I cannot afford them £5000 gleamers frae Scoatland and anyway prefer the New Zealand aesthetic (the functionality surely cannot get better).
Lataxe, victim of his own immune system
Lataxe,
I was not suggesting Scotland tho that is where me ancestors called home, nae I thought you would just have Monsieur Philip build a dust free plane, being dust free of course, it would cost a wee bit more.
Your nasal sniffer thang should work equally well for the offending wood if it is truly an allergy.
Neil
Is your nasal spray suggestion a "general purpose" help for dust irritants or is it more specific?
Certain woods affect me while others don't. For example, poplar congests me and makes my eyes water for a day or two after working it. Cherry, oak and walnut do not affect me at all. Certain softwoods, such as spruce and pine also adversely affect me.
T.Z.
Hi Tony.
Cromolyn prevents release of antihistamine and other chemicals that are the mediators of the allergic response, so if your reaction to a particular wood is truly allergic the cromolyn usually helps. If the reaction is based on the irritative nature of the wood then it's unlikely to be of much benefit. Bottom line is likely: try it and see. I don't think it's expensive but I haven't priced it recently. You may also have to experiment with dose, eg two sprays/nostril rather than one, etc...cromolyn is pretty short on side effects (which is probably why it's OTC)and is generally safe.
Neil
Many thanks!
Generally when I have an irritation, it includes my sinuses and eyes, and I'm assuming it's allergic. This may also help me when I visit my mother, who has several dogs. Minutes after entering her house its misery!
T.Z.
I just planed a bit of iroko in the shed , using one plane with 66 degree cutting angle and the other with 45 degree. The former gives concertina chips whilst the latter gives shavings.
The bench was vacuumed before I began, so any dust would be from the planing.
I used the 45 degree plane first and suffered no sneezy throat-catch. There does seem to be far less flake and dust from that cutting action. As soon as I used the 66 plane the snooze came on.
Now, it could be psychosomatic but looking at the chips that gradually accumulate in the mouths of the planes, one can see that the 66 degree stuff is much more dusty and flakey.
***
Next I hung the air-scrubber above the bench where I planed. This definitely seems to make enough of a local suck so that dust motes from the bench (I side-lit the area to see them) moved away from me. Again, it does seem to keep the snoozle away, even when using the 66 plane.
Of course, this means that yet another of those "handtools are dust free and quiet" ideas is shot in the foot, as that air-scrubber is not at all quiet, especially hung 18 inches from one's lug 'oles.
Lataxe
Lataxe
Forget the cameras, Forget everything...
I for one use Jatoba very often. I keep it in a separate place from my shop when not actually cutting or whatever...
I find it bothers me (in unfinished state) if I go anyway near it! I do not have to cut, sand, scrape, or otherwise disturb it.
Just be near it! I live with it. I have found if I work with it for a day and then come back several days later I can tolerate it... If I work with is for several days I'm in 'Big HURT"...
Sort of like my very old dog.. I sneezzzzzzzeeeee whenever he comes near me... Which is often... I love him just the same... Not his fault.. Mine for having him inside the house!
Edited 12/15/2008 10:33 am by WillGeorge
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